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Time for a New Offensive Coordinator


He went into coaching after being a scout. And your original point is still wrong. Whoever was picked doesn't mean that person was better. Patricia wasn't a better DC or HC than Flores. And McDaniels being picked over Daboll doesn't mean he's better. so you using that argument doesn't fly. Daboll is the better HC candidate right now and deservedly so.

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You believe Belichick keeps the coaches he thinks are worse over the coaches he thinks are better coaches? That explains so much. He must have been doing the same with players, that’s why they have sucked the past 20 years. Thanks for clearing that up, I have been trying to figure it out for decades.
 
Hilarious how much one has to bend backwards to understand this false logic. Buffalo was not a good place before Daboll arrived. Cleveland was falling apart when O'Shea arrived. On the other hand McDaniels came back to a HOF QB, HOF TE, and clutch slot WR and developed nobody in 8 years.

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The difference in Buffalo is Brandon Beane, McDermott, good drafting, and much better personnel decisions overall. They have also done a good job putting their coaching staff together, including Daboll. Buffalo is the best franchise in the AFCE right now, and Belichick not only has to rebuild their franchise to that level, but to a higher level to be competitive with the other top franchise’s in football, such as Kansas City. That’s going to take several years of really good decisions to achieve, a quick fix isn’t going to do it, and the idea it can be fixed by simply changing a few coaches is foolish. For me the primary challenge Belichick faces is getting a franchise QB that is on par with Mahomes, Allen, and a number of others, and then building the units around them to championship level. Right now the OL, RB, and secondary are the only units at that level, and the secondary, in particular, is likely to lose a number of big pieces over the next two years, and will require more really good picks to keep it at that level for the time when the rest of the team is ready to compete at a championship level. The only caveat to that would be if they somehow manage to get a top QB immediately, which is unlikely. I basically see the franchise at a level where they have to do a major rebuild, although not of the level Belichick inherited in 2000. And a big part of the problem right now is that there success has caused a pillaging of their front office, coaching staff, and player personel, and that will likely continue through through this offseason. I’m grateful to Belichick for building the greatest dynasty in NFL history, and I’m really interested in seeing how he goes about getting them back to championship level, and more than willing to give him the time to do so.
 
The difference in Buffalo is Brandon Beane, McDermott, good drafting, and much better personnel decisions overall. They have also done a good job putting their coaching staff together, including Daboll. Buffalo is the best franchise in the AFCE right now, and Belichick not only has to rebuild their franchise to that level, but to a higher level to be competitive with the other top franchise’s in football, such as Kansas City. That’s going to take several years of really good decisions to achieve, a quick fix isn’t going to do it, and the idea it can be fixed by simply changing a few coaches is foolish. For me the primary challenge Belichick faces is getting a franchise QB that is on par with Mahomes, Allen, and a number of others, and then building the units around them to championship level. Right now the OL, RB, and secondary are the only units at that level, and the secondary, in particular, is likely to lose a number of big pieces over the next two years, and will require more really good picks to keep it at that level for the time when the rest of the team is ready to compete at a championship level. The only caveat to that would be if they somehow manage to get a top QB immediately, which is unlikely. I basically see the franchise at a level where they have to do a major rebuild, although not of the level Belichick inherited in 2000. And a big part of the problem right now is that there success has caused a pillaging of their front office, coaching staff, and player personel, and that will likely continue through through this offseason. I’m grateful to Belichick for building the greatest dynasty in NFL history, and I’m really interested in seeing how he goes about getting them back to championship level, and more than willing to give him the time to do so.
Enter Wilson or Lance they are the only 2 I see with that kind of potential. Since Lawrence is a already buying a home in Jacksonville as far away from a meth lab as possible which in Jacksonville is about 3 blocks.
 
He went into coaching after being a scout. And your original point is still wrong. Whoever was picked doesn't mean that person was better. Patricia wasn't a better DC or HC than Flores. And McDaniels being picked over Daboll doesn't mean he's better. so you using that argument doesn't fly. Daboll is the better HC candidate right now and deservedly so.

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You know you got it wrong.

With McDaniels and Daboll, both of these guys were coaches. Belichick picked McDaniels because he clearly thought McDaniels was the better choice.

With Patricia and Flores, there was no comparison. One was a coach and the other was a scout. Belichick's first opportunity to see Flores in control of a unit (safeties) came in 2012, the very same year he appointed Patricia DC (not to mention the fact that Patricia was really unofficially the DC for a couple years before that).

The 2 situations are entirely different.

McDaniels and Daboll were equals. Patricia and Flores were not.
 
You know you got it wrong.

With McDaniels and Daboll, both of these guys were coaches. Belichick picked McDaniels because he clearly thought McDaniels was the better choice.

With Patricia and Flores, there was no comparison. One was a coach and the other was a scout. Belichick's first opportunity to see Flores in control of a unit (safeties) came in 2012, the very same year he appointed Patricia DC (not to mention the fact that Patricia was really unofficially the DC for a couple years before that).

The 2 situations are entirely different.

McDaniels and Daboll were equals. Patricia and Flores were not.

Again. Who Belichick picks doesn't mean that person is a better HC candidate. Maybe BB likes lackeys. Who knows. Belichick also picked Dean Pees over other people and Pees was a bad DC. Just because Belichick picked a guy doesn't mean they're good. And back to the point, Daboll is a much better HC candidate than McDaniels is.

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The difference in Buffalo is Brandon Beane, McDermott, good drafting, and much better personnel decisions overall. They have also done a good job putting their coaching staff together, including Daboll. Buffalo is the best franchise in the AFCE right now, and Belichick not only has to rebuild their franchise to that level, but to a higher level to be competitive with the other top franchise’s in football, such as Kansas City. That’s going to take several years of really good decisions to achieve, a quick fix isn’t going to do it, and the idea it can be fixed by simply changing a few coaches is foolish. For me the primary challenge Belichick faces is getting a franchise QB that is on par with Mahomes, Allen, and a number of others, and then building the units around them to championship level. Right now the OL, RB, and secondary are the only units at that level, and the secondary, in particular, is likely to lose a number of big pieces over the next two years, and will require more really good picks to keep it at that level for the time when the rest of the team is ready to compete at a championship level. The only caveat to that would be if they somehow manage to get a top QB immediately, which is unlikely. I basically see the franchise at a level where they have to do a major rebuild, although not of the level Belichick inherited in 2000. And a big part of the problem right now is that there success has caused a pillaging of their front office, coaching staff, and player personel, and that will likely continue through through this offseason. I’m grateful to Belichick for building the greatest dynasty in NFL history, and I’m really interested in seeing how he goes about getting them back to championship level, and more than willing to give him the time to do so.

The whole analysis also ignores how teams typically cycle. It's not McDaniels fault that he coached a franchise that hadn't cycled in talent for a very long time.

The Bills will cycle and they'll drop from where they are now. It's just how the NFL works.

If the Bills owner is smart he'l keep this coach and management team around even when they have losing seasons.

I look at the Eagles owner and I think the guy is an absolute idiot for firing Pederson.
 
Enter Wilson or Lance they are the only 2 I see with that kind of potential. Since Lawrence is a already buying a home in Jacksonville as far away from a meth lab as possible which in Jacksonville is about 3 blocks.
They appear to be the best prospects in this class but it would take much much more knowledge to know the potential of all of the prospects in this class. Plenty of top 10 QB picks bust, and plenty of those drafted 2nd round and on turn out to be good QB’s. I don’t count on Belichick seeing the QB he wants at 15, and I seriously doubt he would trade up higher than 10 to get one, as the draft capital is too high. As it stands right now the QB I would like to see Belichick go get is Fitzpatrick, who I think would make them competitive, and who would allow Belichick to go at the rebuild from a higher point of competitiveness than a guy like Brissett would. And I think that signing Fitzpatrick would make it more likely they invest in WR early in the draft, as well as signing one in free agency, although I doubt he would spend big $$$$$ on the position. Ultimately I think QB is the key to the offseason, as I believe Belichick will take a very different approach to his roster depending upon who is likely to be behind center. If it’s Brissett then I think he’s likely to let many of his veteran free agents go, and will cut others, e.g..Patrick Chung,but if it’s Fitzpatrick or Garrapolo he’s likely to try to keep guys like Edelman, Lawrence Guy and David Andrews around, and try to build up his offensive weapons.
 
Again. Who Belichick picks doesn't mean that person is a better HC candidate. Maybe BB likes lackeys. Who knows. Belichick also picked Dean Pees over other people and Pees was a bad DC. Just because Belichick picked a guy doesn't mean they're good. And back to the point, Daboll is a much better HC candidate than McDaniels is.

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Who did he pick Dean Pees over?
In case you fell asleep, Dean Pees was Baltimore's DC when they won a Super Bowl and they beat what I consider the best Patriots offense in the history of the franchise (2012).

Belichick knows more than you and me and everyone else about coaching football. No one knows more about football than Belichick. No one. When Belichick picks one guy over another it's because he uses his unparalleled knowledge of football to make that assessment.
 
Again. Who Belichick picks doesn't mean that person is a better HC candidate. Maybe BB likes lackeys. Who knows. Belichick also picked Dean Pees over other people and Pees was a bad DC. Just because Belichick picked a guy doesn't mean they're good. And back to the point, Daboll is a much better HC candidate than McDaniels is.

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You must be arguing with yourself because no one that I have seen has argued that Belichick keeps coaches because he thinks they are the best head coaching candidates, only that he keeps the coaches he believes will do the best at their job. You also seem to believe that you know much more about the various abilities of his coaches and front office than Belichick does, which is batshit crazy, period.
 
The whole analysis also ignores how teams typically cycle. It's not McDaniels fault that he coached a franchise that hadn't cycled in talent for a very long time.

The Bills will cycle and they'll drop from where they are now. It's just how the NFL works.

If the Bills owner is smart he'l keep this coach and management team around even when they have losing seasons.

I look at the Eagles owner and I think the guy is an absolute idiot for firing Pederson.
I agree completely, and this is borne out by the fact that the most stable franchises are the most successful long term, with the obvious exception of the Bengals, but that only happened because Brown wanted to pay as little as possible for operating the franchise while reaping as much as possible from revenues. As much as I dislike them Pittsburgh and Baltimore have been very stable franchises and have enjoyed great success, despite consistently losing players and coaches because of their success, and Seattle and Green Bay prove the same point. And if franchises like Buffalo and the Rams stick with their GM’s and head coaches I think you will see similar results going forward. On the other hand the franchises that make rash decisions and change GM’s, coaches, and course’s repeatedly are almost universally the worst franchises in the league, to which I cite The New York Football Jets.
 
I'm not a big McDaniels guy especially because he's awful in the RZ. But I think he got everything out of this batch of talent he possibly could. I don't think Reid and Bieniemy could have gotten more out of them.

I hope neither Josh or Bieniemy take the Eagles job. What a sh!t show that's going to be with the front office pretty much hiring based on will you play our guy. WTF have a competition and let them drive each other. Wentz has been really bad for a while now and granted the Eagles have dealt with a lot of injuries but you watch him and he's not seeing wide open receivers, turning the ball over, missing throws......
 
I agree completely, and this is borne out by the fact that the most stable franchises are the most successful long term, with the obvious exception of the Bengals, but that only happened because Brown wanted to pay as little as possible for operating the franchise while reaping as much as possible from revenues. As much as I dislike them Pittsburgh and Baltimore have been very stable franchises and have enjoyed great success, despite consistently losing players and coaches because of their success, and Seattle and Green Bay prove the same point. And if franchises like Buffalo and the Rams stick with their GM’s and head coaches I think you will see similar results going forward. On the other hand the franchises that make rash decisions and change GM’s, coaches, and course’s repeatedly are almost universally the worst franchises in the league, to which I cite The New York Football Jets.

I don't disagree with what you wrote above. Stability is better than instability. But many years with someone who isn't making it better is also not great. Look at Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati for a decade. This offense hasn't grown any internal offensive draft talent for 8 years . Cares zero about tight ends. Talent evaluation and talent development is not McDaniels strength. So in this case stability isn't the right move. He's not the right person for a depleted offense. This will be the 2010 Denver Broncos with McDaniels if he stays longer.
 
I don't disagree with what you wrote above. Stability is better than instability. But many years with someone who isn't making it better is also not great. Look at Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati for a decade. This offense hasn't grown any internal offensive draft talent for 8 years . Cares zero about tight ends. Talent evaluation and talent development is not McDaniels strength. So in this case stability isn't the right move. He's not the right person for a depleted offense. This will be the 2010 Denver Broncos with McDaniels if he stays longer.
I get it, you don’t like MacDaniels, I just don’t agree with what you are saying. MacDaniels coached a first ballot HOF TE, and I don’t know of any OC who succeeds with a horrible QB with a weak receiving corps and no TE’s. If MacDaniels gets a HC job I’m fine with it, and if he’s back I’m fine with that, the issues with the Patriots right now are about the losses in talent and the need to rebuild significant parts of the team.
 
I get it, you don’t like MacDaniels, I just don’t agree with what you are saying. MacDaniels coached a first ballot HOF TE, and I don’t know of any OC who succeeds with a horrible QB with a weak receiving corps and no TE’s. If MacDaniels gets a HC job I’m fine with it, and if he’s back I’m fine with that, the issues with the Patriots right now are about the losses in talent and the need to rebuild significant parts of the team.

Yeah I think you're a reasonable person. I'm dealing in fact. We were fortunate O'Brien developed Gronk and Edelman. Our 2TE offense created a ton of mismatches and with Revis+ Gilmore and an elite secondary, Brady got 3 more rings. Part of the zero talent here now is due to the coordinator. We need a guy who doesn't just call plays when he has HOF talent. We need a new guy who can develop players. The guy here does not develop any talent. An OC has to do way more than just call plays off a plastic sheet to be a good OC.

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Again. Who Belichick picks doesn't mean that person is a better HC candidate. Maybe BB likes lackeys. Who knows. Belichick also picked Dean Pees over other people and Pees was a bad DC. Just because Belichick picked a guy doesn't mean they're good. And back to the point, Daboll is a much better HC candidate than McDaniels is.

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So Josh McDaniels was the Browns' OC today, apparently. Chubb: 13 carries. Shocker!!! They lost.
 
So Josh McDaniels was the Browns' OC today, apparently. Chubb: 13 carries. Shocker!!! They lost.

What an odd comment. If Higgins hadn't fumbled at the goal line that TD would have won the game. Doesn't matter. I hope McDaniels gets the Eagles job. Chad O'Shea is now available for OC of NE.

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What an odd comment. If Higgins hadn't fumbled at the goal line that TD would have won the game. Doesn't matter. I hope McDaniels gets the Eagles job. Chad O'Shea is now available for OC of NE.

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Can O’Shea call a game?
Why not Mike Kafka?
Or a experienced OC?
 
Can O’Shea call a game?
Why not Mike Kafka?
Or a experienced OC?

Not opposed to Kafka here in some capacity. But O'Shea had a top10 Dolphins offense the last half of 2019. And turned around the Cleveland passing game. He's been an offensive coordinator before. But I'm not opposed to Kafka.

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