Thinness on Defensive Line

[DaBruinz]

We took Duron Harmon, when Brandon Williams was still available, which I consider idiotic.

Brandon Williams? You mean the guy who can't even get on the field? How would he be any help since he's injured?

 

[DaBruinz]

You can discuss whatever you wish on the "Wilfork" thread. Silly me, I thought that the Wilfork thread was about Wilfork, his injury and his future.

I suppose that a thread on Armstead's health would mean that the thread was really about DT options?

I'm fine with thread titles that are descriptive and with more threads, rather than fewer. I really don't like sifting through long, long threads that are sidscussing a dozen different topics.

The defensive line depth is directly tied to what's going on with Wilfork. And the same discussion about what is available is going on there. Hence the reason for not needing a new thread.

Who cares what you are fine with... You being lazy doesn't mean my point isn't valid.

 

[patfanken]

The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

If our worst fears are met, and Wilflolk is likely gone for the season, the question be comes who will replace him. I offer this thread as a focal point for this ongoing discussion and offer these initial thoughts

I think we can look at 4 categories of DT/NT talent.

1. The young incumbents:

Velano
Smith
Francis
Forston
Armstead

2. The available alumni

Brace
Love
Seymour

3. They available old veterans

Hampton
Pouha
Garay

4. Trade:

name your suggestion ie a #2 for Phil Taylor with the Browns

IMHO, back in the day BB would likely reach out to some grizzled Vet and try to squeeze another season out of him and utilize his experience with a young group. However recent history leads me to believe BB would rather develop his replacement from the list of incumbents than bring someone in from the outside.

So I think there is no chance for choices #3 or #4, and only a small chance of Brace or Love being back. No folks it looks like the DT position is going to be manned by Tommy Kelly and 3 guys no one outside of NE ever heard of. While we fans would feel better if WIlfolk's replacement was a familiar name we could relate to, I think BB would rather mold his own clay here.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Re: The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

I volunteer to fill in for Big Vince. I'm only 180 lbs, but I can try to pack on some pounds for the upcoming games.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

Since Wilfork is irreplaceable like Brady, let's compare it to our options the Monday after Brady tore his ACL:

1. Do we want to replace Brady with Jeff Garcia or some other hasbeen? (Hampton, etc)

2. Do we want to trade for a veteran QB? (Taylor, etc)

3. Do we want to ride with the young kid in our system in Cassel? (Vellano)

Seeing as how 2 is rather unlikely, I'd rather just roll with Vellano than some JAG vet that has no chance to improve.

It kind of sucks now that Hoyer has saved the Browns. If they we're 0-4, I bet we could've got Phil Taylor in a trade.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Brandon Williams? You mean the guy who can't even get on the field? How would he be any help since he's injured?

It's not like he was a chronic injury case, he was healthy but injuries happen, just like it did to Vince, but if we took Williams instead of Harmon we'd likely be in less of a bind.

Also, were the Cardinals stupid to draft Jonathan Cooper? He can't get onto the field because he's been injured.

 

[mgteich]

The choice is yours. You prefer long, long thread with many embedded sub-topics. I do not.

Calling others "lazy" is really mild for you. Usually you have stronger insults for those with whom you disagree.

The defensive line depth is directly tied to what's going on with Wilfork. And the same discussion about what is available is going on there. Hence the reason for not needing a new thread.

Who cares what you are fine with... You being lazy doesn't mean my point isn't valid.

 

[Marqui]

Re: The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

Yea I don't know if they'll even bother bringing anybody in. They'll probably just wait for Armstead and call it a day.

 

[ALP]

How long has brace been out of football? He's the only guy I see us bringing in that's not a youngster with team already

 

[Username]

Where's Cory Grissom. I liked him in the draft, was delighted when we picked him up as an UDFA, and he's a similar play to Vince. In style, if not ability.

 

[JackBauer]

It's not like he was a chronic injury case, he was healthy but injuries happen, just like it did to Vince, but if we took Williams instead of Harmon we'd likely be in less of a bind.

What happens if it's McCourty going down for the year and not Wilfork?

 

[mgteich]

Re: The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

I disagree with the comparison.

Wilfork will be replaced by Vellano. I don't think that this is at issue. What most of us question in the best use of the two backup DT roster spots. Clearly, we can also have developmental players on the Practice Squad.

Perhaps one of the kids is ready to be in the rotation. Perhaps not. What seems clear is that we may need help in the future, and there is great advantage of having the player on the squad for at least a couple of weeks before expecting him to perform.

Since Wilfork is irreplaceable like Brady, let's compare it to our options the Monday after Brady tore his ACL:

1. Do we want to replace Brady with Jeff Garcia or some other hasbeen? (Hampton, etc)

2. Do we want to trade for a veteran QB? (Taylor, etc)

3. Do we want to ride with the young kid in our system in Cassel? (Vellano)

Seeing as how 2 is rather unlikely, I'd rather just roll with Vellano than some JAG vet that has no chance to improve.

It kind of sucks now that Hoyer has saved the Browns. If they we're 0-4, I bet we could've got Phil Taylor in a trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think the thinness at DT will be addressed in part by Chandler Jones playing a lot more snaps inside, with Buchanan taking on a lot more snaps at DE as a result. Not ideal, since it makes the Pats a lot more vulnerable against the run, but if it's just a matter of developing a rotation, then Jones' versatility should help.

 

[Snake Eyes]

What happens if it's McCourty going down for the year and not Wilfork?

DT is more important than FS, and Harmon was graded as a very late pick, I think it would have been a smarter risk going for Williams earlier on and trying for Harmon later.

 

[JackBauer]

DT is more important than FS, and Harmon was graded as a very late pick, I think it would have been a smarter risk going for Williams earlier on and trying for Harmon later.

I would argue both DT and FS are extremely important, and that the depth (lack thereof) at S was more pressing than at DT.

 

[Oswlek]

I would argue both DT and FS are extremely important, and that the depth (lack thereof) at S was more pressing than at DT.

We saw first hand in 2005 just how important a safety can be. And in the playoffs how much the loss of one DB can hurt.

I understand the desire to bolster the DT, and the rhetoric about winning inside out. I just think that the argument would be more compelling if Harmon has looked like Tavon 2.0 and/or Williams was tearing it up.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I would argue both DT and FS are extremely important, and that the depth (lack thereof) at S was more pressing than at DT.

While we can agree to disagree on that you seem to be forgetting something: we could probably have gotten them both! Harmon was not rated highly, many would think BB overdrafted him.

You're trying to use your limited resources as economically as possible and I don't think that was the case here.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I got to watch Vellano play several times in college and was mightily impressed. I remember one game when we (Ga Tech) double teamed him most of the game and he still had 20(!) tackles. He was an unstoppable beast. Maybe he's wasn't big enough or fast enough to get drafted but the dude could definitely play. Don't be too surprised if he turns out to be a steal.

 

[Zeus]

The defensive line is a lot thinner without Vince in more ways than one ...

 

[RayClay]

Re: The Vince Wilfolk replacement thread

I disagree with the comparison.

Wilfork will be replaced by Vellano. I don't think that this is at issue. What most of us question in the best use of the two backup DT roster spots. Clearly, we can also have developmental players on the Practice Squad.

Perhaps one of the kids is ready to be in the rotation. Perhaps not. What seems clear is that we may need help in the future, and there is great advantage of having the player on the squad for at least a couple of weeks before expecting him to perform.

Wilfork will not nearly be replaced by Vellano. Vellano might get a lot of his snaps, but there are probably five different ways he won't compare to Wilfork. WE either find an immense talented NT type, or we adjust to playing far lesser DTs by scheming.