There seems to be a lot of doubters in here on the Patriots F.O. lately

[dannydyn]

I would buy this if the Pats hadn't made an initial offer before the start of last season and an offer just recently. Anybody that's "pissed off" by Welker's persona (and what persona was that, again?) doesn't make an offer on a UFA. They let him ride out.

Actually, I believe last year's contract talks that exploded were the beginning of the end for Welker. The F.O. probably did not appreciate Welker's demands, his hold out, tweets, and what not.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I only doubt them on this move. If they make some big moves on D...Keep talib..get a grimes or Aso or a kerry rhodes..then i will forget about it

 

[IllegalContact]

Not really. He basically just says that 'In Bill We Trust'. He doesn't use evidence that Amendola could be better than Welker because the numbers don't actually suggest that.

Thing with that is, Bill is now relying heavily on McDaniels' recommendations (5 McDaniels' guys now here over the past year, not all w the team still).

Also, ever since they let Branch,Vinatieri, Willie, Law go they have not won another championship (though they have won a lot, more than anyone)

well....he actually does......amendola did more in his first few years than did welker.......

personally, I like change.....give me something new to look at

 

[patsfan13]

If you are getting players from outside the org it is helpful if a member of the coaching staff or someone who BB trusts has first hand experience with the player.

Why do you think we have drafted so many players associated with BB friends/ex assistant coaches. Pat Hill, Saban, U Meyer, K Ferentz.......

 

[Kontradiction]

And before this goes any further, let me just specify that I'm taking a wait and see approach even though I really don't like the move. To me, it looks like the team is beginning to shift it's focus back to the defensive side of the ball. But, even still, I still expect more WR moves to be made, if not through FA or a trade, then in the draft as well. But, from where we stand right now, the move made yesterday is not a good one. How anybody could possibly argue that it was is beyond me.

 

[Kontradiction]

Actually, I believe last year's contract talks that exploded were the beginning of the end for Welker. The F.O. probably did not appreciate Welker's demands, his hold out, tweets, and what not.

I have to believe that you were drunk when this all went down, then. This was a much nicer situation than Seymour's or Mankins'. Welker displayed good faith by signing the franchise tender and appeared to want to get a deal done with the team.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If you are getting players from outside the org it is helpful if a member of the coaching staff or someone who BB trusts has first hand experience with the player.

Why do you think we have drafted so many players associated with BB friends/ex assistant coaches. Pat Hill, Saban, U Meyer, K Ferentz.......

That works when you have coaches who actually give you reliable info. Bringing in 5 ex-Rams/Broncos is McDaniels', and he hasn't proven to be a good talent evaluator. Same goes for the DB/safety coaches, their information/opinion is not reliable.

 

[IllegalContact]

Except that the Patriots could have very easily kept Welker, not only on their roster, but also off a roster with Peyton Manning as the quarterback.

absolutely the pats could have kept welker here if they wanted to.....

guess they didn't want to

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Brady only has 3 more solid years left IMO...would be a shame to see them spent with JAG WRs but it looks like that may be the case

 

[patsfan13]

That works when you have coaches who actually give you reliable info. Bringing in 5 ex-Rams/Broncos is McDaniels', and he hasn't proven to be a good talent evaluator. Same goes for the DB/safety coaches, their information/opinion is not reliable.

McD drafted D Thomas and Decker that is very good talent evaluation IMO.

 

[Wheelman]

I've tried to sift though all the conflicting media reports and come to some sort of conclusion as to what went on. I guess we do know that Wes was offered $8 mil by the Patriots for 2 years before he signed the franchise tender for $9.5 mil.

The Patriots offered him a deal of $5mil with incentives. We don't know what those incentives were and how much more Wes could of made. It was reported this morning by a reporter who will will remain nameless, that Wes or his agent never went back to the Patriots with the Denver offer. It's been reported that they did and the Patriots would not match. I don't know what to believe between those stories.

But the Patriots did offer him what the market value turned out to be this year. And had Wes taken their offer last year he would be making above the market value for 2013. So I don't know why people are blaming the Patriots other than just though anger.

Until I hear otherwise, I can conclude that Wes took business too personally. It sounds that as tough and determined he is on the football field, he's a little thin skinned when it comes to business negotiations. In the end, he chose to leave.

I'm not blaming him or the Patriots, it's just is what it is.

Did anyone see this link?

The breaking point came Tuesday in the mid-afternoon before the official start of free agency, when the Patriots and Welker's representatives halted contract talks. The team's offer, a two-year, $10 million pact with incentives that could have pushed it as high as $16 million but in the eyes of Welker would be extremely difficult to reach, wasn't accepted.

Would be interesting to see what exactly the numbers were on these incentives. And if you read the entire article another non-contender AFC team(Welker's point of view) offered the most money at 2 years/15 million.

2013 NFL free agency -- New England Patriots quickly shifted from Wes Welker to Danny Amendola - ESPN Boston

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Not really. He basically just says that 'In Bill We Trust'. He doesn't use evidence that Amendola could be better than Welker because the numbers don't actually suggest that.

Thing with that is, Bill is now relying heavily on McDaniels' recommendations (5 McDaniels' guys now here over the past year, not all w the team still).

Also, ever since they let Branch,Vinatieri, Willie, Law go they have not won another championship (though they have won a lot, more than anyone)

Good gracious, this is just abject whining. Let's address a few of these:

Do you not remember the Ty Law thing? He wanted to be paid insane amounts of money, and went to two losing teams to do so. They won the 2004 championship with Law missing over half the regular season and the entire playoffs.

Adam Vinatieri? Why would anyone be bitter about this? The Patriots have missed absolutely NOTHING by not overpaying for a kicker who was past his prime; Gostkowski has been the better kicker over Vinatieri's span with the Colts.

Willie Mac chose to get paid by a terrible team rather than stick around.

If you simply make it a priority to keep all players that remind you of happy times, there are not going to be more happy times in the future.

As to the bolded part, as someone else pointed out above, Amendola's numbers with the Rams are better than Welker's with the Dolphins.

A large number of Pats fans were beside themselves when Welker was acquired, because he was traded for a 2nd and 7th and given an extension. That worked out fine. It's highly doubtful for Amendola to be as good as Wes, but the Pats don't need him to be. They need him to be him, as they needed Wes to be Wes and not replace Deion Branch, or Mayo to not worry about replacing Tedy Bruschi.

All will be well with the world when the Pats beat the Ravens like a drum week one.

 

[Rob0729]

I have 110% trust in the Pats college scouting team, the scouts, Caserio, and Belichick. They had strong drafts using their time-tested system of how to evaluate players.

I do NOT trust the opinions given by McDaniels and also by the DB and safety coaches. None of them have proven they know what they're talking about when it comes to evaluating talent.

The huge concern is that Belichick solicits information from his staff around personnel decisions, and when it comes to certain positions (those influenced by McDaniels or the DB/safety coaches), the information is not reliable.

This will be 2006 all over again. Brady takes a hometown discount only to see the Pats completely waste it on bad acquisitions and draft picks.

This team has not won since 2004. It has kept winning (more than anyone), but ever since Willie, Givens, Law, Samuels, Seymour, Branch left they have not won another one.

Brady has 2 great years left and they are going to waste it on a 5 year plan that may never materialize

C'mon, admit it. You are maverick04.

As you "correctly" pointed out, McDaniels forced Chad Jackson on Belichick where idiots like Michael Holley who has no connection to the inner workings of the Pats' organization foolishly think Brian Daboll scouted Jackson and Belichick was influenced by Urban Meyer for selecting Jackson.

You "correctly" pointed out Daniel Fells was McDaniels' choice because even though Fells never actually played for McDaniels, he played on the same same teams (although at different times than McDaniels) that McDaniels coached at in between Patriots stints.

 

[p8ryts]

What some Patriots fans seem to be having a hard time understanding is that this is..and will always be a business before its a sport on the field.

I loved Wes here as a Patriot and all he gave to us in enjoyment over the years but it was time to move on...he is not getting any younger and the F.O. thought it was time to get a little bit younger and move on and create another WR corps that Brady has never had a problem in adjusting to.

This front office has made many tough decisions before despite them really wanting to keep them,as for example letting a All-Pro CB leave (Law),A WR just a year removed from the MVP of the SB (Branch),a CB that was a good ball hawker (Samuel) One of the early 2000s best DL (Seymour) and many other favorites among us......yet

.......despite all the losses of our guys to FA or trades,the F.O. has continued to put a respectable team on the field...a team that has been more successful than any other in the NFL over the past 12 years...a team that has rarely missed the playoffs and is almost always the favorite to win the SB every year and the only team that has been to multiple SBs and Championship games as well.

Why all of a sudden has some believing that Belichick has lost it or that the F.O. is going nuts?

One man has never made the difference between winning a championship or losing one and Welker won't be the reason either...its a team sport and always will be.

When this F.O. decides that its imperative and smart to keep a player they do so and in a big way with juicy contracts like Gronk,Hernandez and Wilfork and smart extensions given to Brady.

I just don't feel the F.O. felt that Welker was imperative to winning and that Brady can make adjustments like he always has done before.

Like I said before,I loved Welker as a Patriot and I wish him the best of luck in Denver (as long as his best games are not against NE)...He was a pleasure to watch and I don't think anything of him less now than before

.....REMEMBER its a business before its a sport on the field and Welker and the Patriots have decided that the business partnership should go seperate ways....we should respect both parties in that respect and move on to the 2013 season with Welker moving to the Rockies and what should be an exciting and new WR corps.

A sane post, thank goodness

 

[Rob0729]

5 ex-Rams/Broncos on the roster (not all with the team still) since last year is evidence McDaniels has Belichick's ear.

Holley's book definitively describes how in 2006, against the entire Patriots scouting staff, Belichick took Laurence Maroney in the 1st round only because of McDaniels' pushing for it (and McDaniels only pushing for it based on horrible advice from his brother). McDaniels also personally worked out O'Connell. O'Connell doesn't get drafted 3rd round without McDaniels' pushing for it.

So no, it's not exaggeration to suggest McDaniels' has big influence on these personnel moves.

LOL! Funny you are now quoting Holley's book after several other posters and myself schooled you on your ridiculous argument that McDaniels picked Chad Jackson with quotes from that book. You are shameless.

So McDaniels is a horrible talent evaluator because his brother gave bad inside advise on Maroney? How does that speak to his talent evalution, but how much he trusts his brother (and most people trust their brother). Besides, from my recollection of Holley's book, I don't know if Ben McDaniels gave the scouting report to Josh or Bill directly. Belichick may have gone on Ben's advise and wasn't pushed by McDaniels.

And again, Fells never played for McDaniels prior to the Patriots yet you attribute him to McDaniels.

Yes, you are overstating his influence to push you continuing agenda vs. McDaniels.

 

[Jimke]

The Welker affair only confirmed the fact that BB is a (vulgar name
for a very nasty man) and Bob Kraft is a con artist. I can start to
see why the fans in Cleveland hated BB. Welker could have been let
go with class.

 

[Kontradiction]

Aye. The fact that Mav is liking my posts makes me want to re-think my position.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the biggest thing with this whole situation is the emotional aspect of the loss of Welker. Yes, considering his production is still very high, it plays a factor. But most fans put Welker up there as one of their 2-3 favorite players on the team.

We saw similar outcries (although not as big) when the Pats let guys like Vrabel, McGinest, and Milloy go.

I think questioning Pats' moves is valid. They have made their share of mistakes. I personally am willing to hold judgement until everything plays out.

 

[IllegalContact]

Aye. The fact that Mav is liking my posts makes me want to re-think my position.

just repeat after me: 'bah.....welker sucked.......or at least he was going to suck this year'

 

[Rob0729]

Aye. The fact that Mav is liking my posts makes me want to re-think my position.

Just don't write any posts that he can twist back into blaming McDaniels for something and you can usually avoid him publicly liking your posts.