There really aren't many roster decisions to make

[cstjohn17]

Aside from the injury history of both (mostly Blue) I don't quite get your pessimism there. Hobbs and Blue are a combo that IMHO is in the top half of the league. Where I see some issues is the depth after those two.

Really? top half. Looking at the depth, there is zero depth behind those two.

 

[Oswlek]

Really? top half. Looking at the depth, there is zero depth behind those two.

I think Hobbs is an up-and-comer who will really blossom this year and I love Gay. If it weren't for my obsession with Welker, I would probably have Blue in my avatar. He is *much* better than most realize.

You are absolutely right about the depth which is why Meriweather has been playing a lot of outside corner and nickel. Hopefully Richardson proves his worth because NE needs someone unknown to become known,.

 

[PatsFan37]

We put 6 DBs on the IR in 2005 if you recall.

There's just no planning for that.

Hobbs has played well. He's a little short, but has played himself into an adequate 2nd corner.

I think he's more than adequate. He and Samuel were a pretty good tandem on the outside against Manning, forcing the passes inside to the TEs and slot. If you're judging by last year, and how could you not, you need to take his wrist injury into account.

If you saw the other team had an undrafted free agent at cornerback with 11 career starts, some at safety, some at nickel, I'm sure you'd say, "their starters are much better than ours".

At some point the draft pick has to be let go. For example, I wouldn't start Tory James (2nd round) against Marques Colston, would you? Or Cotchery (4th round) against Duane Starks (1st round).

Until Asante comes back we are tons better at safety and really whistling past the graveyard at corner.

Absolutely better at safety, but Samuel will be back for the first or second game, it costs too much otherwise. If they carry five CBs, the first four will be Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, and a first-round pick. That's pretty decent depth.

If you saw another team where their first round pick couldn't break the starting lineup, wouldn't you say their depth was much better than ours?

 

[RayClay]

I think Hobbs is an up-and-comer who will really blossom this year and I love Gay. If it weren't for my obsession with Welker, I would probably have Blue in my avatar. He is *much* better than most realize.

You are absolutely right about the depth which is why Meriweather has been playing a lot of outside corner and nickel. Hopefully Richardson proves his worth because NE needs someone unknown to become known,.

Nothing wrong with favorites, but you realize you have hardly anything to base that on.

He started at corner in a couple key games, but he obviously hasn't seen the same receiver twice and no one had a chance to review film on him to try to find a weakness in his game.

I believe TBC had replaced McGinest, according to at least one poster, by mid-season last year.

By year end he was benched and allowed to leave without even an offer.

He played a lot more than Gay has too.

 

[Rob0729]

I really doubt that.

If another team had a short 3rd round pick who was supposed to be a nickel starting opposite an undrafted free agent who's been hurt more than healthy in college and the pros, you would say they were very weak at cornerback.

Because they're on the Pats they're better than half the starters in the NFL?

You sure you don't have those rosy glasses on?

You do realize that Asante Samuel was a fourth round pick and as recently as last year people were saying that he was more suited as nickelback than a starting CB? Hobbs was higher rated coming out of college than Samuel was. In fact, Hobbs was considered a great pick up for us while many felt we reached for Samuel at the time of their perspective drafts.

In the 2004 season, Gay arguably played better than Samuel when they both got in.

I personally think we would be fine a t CB with Hobbs and Gay starting as long as they stay healthy. As Jeff Fisher said after that game, as long as the front seven keeps putting pressure like we did, who is in the secondary is not nearly as relevent. The Pats have always been built on great talent up front and other than Ty Law, mediocre to average CBs.

 

[sebman2112]

Please list the last NFL game in which Wilson started at corner. The reason Wilson is not playing corner in this preseason is that he is a safety and that bb doesn't want him playing corner. yes, I believe he'd rather Sanders or Meriweather play corner.

In the end, I agree with you that we should have a real third corner, presumably either James or Richardson.

Sanders is not a CB at all, and I don't think BB would ever want to play him at CB over Wilson.

 

[sebman2112]

I'm not really comfortable with limiting the formations and plays we can use on offense by only having 3 WRs active. And that doesn't even take into account what would happen if one got hurt. Now you can't run probably over half the playbook.

Agreed, I want at least four WR's active on sunday, especially with all the downfield weapons now present on the team.

 

[Oswlek]

Nothing wrong with favorites, but you realize you have hardly anything to base that on.

He started at corner in a couple key games, but he obviously hasn't seen the same receiver twice and no one had a chance to review film on him to try to find a weakness in his game.

I believe TBC had replaced McGinest, according to at least one poster, by mid-season last year.

By year end he was benched and allowed to leave without even an offer.

He played a lot more than Gay has too.

I have plenty to base my opinion on. Blue has been at worst capable and at best excellent every time he has seen the field with good health. Obviously Blue needs to prove that the past two years are behind him, but there is quite a bit more evidence that Blue is a good player than anything else. It is just his lack of health the past couple years that keeps him under the radar.

 

[dhamz]

I have plenty to base my opinion on. Blue has been at worst capable and at best excellent every time he has seen the field with good health. Obviously Blue needs to prove that the past two years are behind him, but there is quite a bit more evidence that Blue is a good player than anything else. It is just his lack of health the past couple years that keeps him under the radar.

There is an old saying in the NFL that says the most important ability a player can have is durability.

Right now, all we can say for certain about Gay is there is quite a bit of eveidence that tells us he has had trouble staying healthy.

 

[RayClay]

There's just no planning for that.
I think he's more than adequate. He and Samuel were a pretty good tandem on the outside against Manning, forcing the passes inside to the TEs and slot. If you're judging by last year, and how could you not, you need to take his wrist injury into account.
At some point the draft pick has to be let go. For example, I wouldn't start Tory James (2nd round) against Marques Colston, would you? Or Cotchery (4th round) against Duane Starks (1st round).
Absolutely better at safety, but Samuel will be back for the first or second game, it costs too much otherwise. If they carry five CBs, the first four will be Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, and a first-round pick. That's pretty decent depth.

If you saw another team where their first round pick couldn't break the starting lineup, wouldn't you say their depth was much better than ours?

I agree Hobbs is more than adequate. Hobbs and Samuel are a very good cornerback duo. Samuel is the better of the two IMO, much smoother.

I like Hobbs.

I'm reacting to the people who think Hobbs and Gay are better than half the tandems in the NFL.

They're not and our depth consists of mostly safeties, James, who has stunk from all reports and Richardson, who looks good to me, but is still a low round rookie.

I'm not putting Hobbs down, quite the opposite. Because of injuries and holdouts he's been thrust from a nickel backup projection, (Behind Starks, Poole, Samuel, Gay and Chad Scott. Despite all but one of these going down, Hobbs didn't start until mid season).

The patriots "planned" sign Milloy to play with Rodney. When he left and Antwan Harris sucked they switched their top drafted CB to safety.

They "planned" to sign Law and he would have been smart to take it. Instead of Law and Asante, you had Asante and anybody.

Did they "plan" on handing the job to Gay? Not by spending a 3rd on starks and awaiting Poole's rehab and signing Scott.

They're lucky that Hobbs has a lot of competitiveness and that Gayis finally healthy (crosses fingers).

To say this is a plan is kind of silly, no?

I can only assume by the signing of James, that there's not much out there.

Hopefully we don't reach the point where we're looking at Earthwind's and our hybrids Wilson and Meriweather, can get us over whatever humps we encounter.

If you saw another team where their first round pick couldn't break the starting lineup, wouldn't you say their depth was much better than ours?

Our first round pick is a safety. We're safety rich including starters and depth. As a matter of fact, the safety we picked in round one is working out at cornerback, a position he didn't play very much in college, (outside of nickel which Sanders has played for the Pats).

I wonder why they drafted a safety and immediately start working him out at cornerback? Maybe we're lacking.

 

[RayClay]

I have plenty to base my opinion on. Blue has been at worst capable and at best excellent every time he has seen the field with good health.

Plenty?....

 

[Oswlek]

There is an old saying in the NFL that says the most important ability a player can have is durability.

Right now, all we can say for certain about Gay is there is quite a bit of eveidence that tells us he has had trouble staying healthy.

No disputing that. If Blue ends up on IR again his time with NE is likely over.

 

[RayClay]

You do realize that Asante Samuel was a fourth round pick and as recently as last year people were saying that he was more suited as nickelback than a starting CB? Hobbs was higher rated coming out of college than Samuel was. In fact, Hobbs was considered a great pick up for us while many felt we reached for Samuel at the time of their perspective drafts.

In the 2004 season, Gay arguably played better than Samuel when they both got in.

I personally think we would be fine a t CB with Hobbs and Gay starting as long as they stay healthy. As Jeff Fisher said after that game, as long as the front seven keeps putting pressure like we did, who is in the secondary is not nearly as relevent. The Pats have always been built on great talent up front and other than Ty Law, mediocre to average CBs.

Not including safety, not including nickel how many of gay's 11 career starts were at cornerback?

 

[Oswlek]

Plenty?....

Since you are intent on going overboard with your negative assessment of Blue, feel free to give all your examples of his poor play.

Again, I have been forthright about his lack of health and the fact that NE's depth is scary - meaning Blue's health is a major concern.

But you seem to want to go beyond that. You seem to want to say that Blue's play in the 2004 season, as well as the early parts of the 2005 and 2006 season shouldn't count for anything. Again, please find all these examples of Blue's poor play during those games.

And, yes, there is "plenty" of evidence that Blue is a good #2 CB when healthy. The problem is that there is even more evidence that health is not a sure thing at all.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree Hobbs is more than adequate. Hobbs and Samuel are a very good cornerback duo. Samuel is the better of the two IMO, much smoother.

I like Hobbs.

I'm reacting to the people who think Hobbs and Gay are better than half the tandems in the NFL.

They're not and our depth consists of mostly safeties, James, who has stunk from all reports and Richardson, who looks good to me, but is still a low round rookie.

I'm not putting Hobbs down, quite the opposite. Because of injuries and holdouts he's been thrust from a nickel backup projection, (Behind Starks, Poole, Samuel, Gay and Chad Scott. Despite all but one of these going down, Hobbs didn't start until mid season).

The patriots "planned" sign Milloy to play with Rodney. When he left and Antwan Harris sucked they switched their top drafted CB to safety.

They "planned" to sign Law and he would have been smart to take it. Instead of Law and Asante, you had Asante and anybody.

Did they "plan" on handing the job to Gay? Not by spending a 3rd on starks and awaiting Poole's rehab and signing Scott.

They're lucky that Hobbs has a lot of competitiveness and that Gayis finally healthy (crosses fingers).

To say this is a plan is kind of silly, no?

I can only assume by the signing of James, that there's not much out there.

Hopefully we don't reach the point where we're looking at Earthwind's and our hybrids Wilson and Meriweather, can get us over whatever humps we encounter.


Our first round pick is a safety. We're safety rich including starters and depth. As a matter of fact, the safety we picked in round one is working out at cornerback, a position he didn't play very much in college, (outside of nickel which Sanders has played for the Pats.

I wonder why the drafted a safety and immediately start working him out at cornerback? Maybe we're lacking.

I agree that calling them in the top half of the league at this point would be a stretch, but I would have said that last year with Samuel and Hobbs going into the season last year. And most of the talk in camp was that Hobbs was the better of the two since he was playing LCB and Samuel, not Hobbs was rotating with Wilson.

Going into camp in 2005, I personally felt that Gay was the better of the two CBs between him and Samuel. Samuel at the time was still too much of a risk taker and wasn't savvy enough to know when it was best just to break up the play or try to intercept it and take it to the house (guess which way he usually leaned towards).

As for Merriweather, I think his switch to CB may partially have to do with the fact that he has a lot of the skills neccessary for the position. Many scouting reports I saw had him as a CB at this level. I don't see him as another Tebucky Jones because he seems to have better insticts than Jones (but what DB doesn't) and has better hip movement to play the position.

I think the arguement is moot though. I still think we see Asante back at practice around Monday or Tuesday next week. One thing that has to scare him is last Friday's game and how well both Hobbs and Gay played and Fisher's comments after the game (about the front seven pressure). The worst thing that could happen to Samuel other than a serious injury is to give the league the impression that he is just a product of a system because both Hobbs and Gay play outstanding while he sits out.

 

[Rob0729]

Not including safety, not including nickel how many of gay's 11 career starts were at cornerback?

How can you be a starter at nickel? Nickel is usually a subpackage. I have never seen the Pats start a game in the nickel package. I also can't remember a game where Gay started at safety. So I will guess 11.

By the way, I think Samuel had 13-15 starts to his career going into the 2005 season.

 

[Oswlek]

For the record

Teams that Hobbs/Gay are clearly better than:

StL
Indy
Houston
Cincy
Detroit
Minny
Buffalo
SanFran
NYG
NO

Teams that are close enough that an argument could be made

Miami
Zona
SD
Pitt
Atlanta - Please no DeAngelo Hall comments. He is not anywhere near the player people think he is.
TN - now that they don't have Pacman.

Even if you disagree with the statement, it isn't as if it is completely outlandish.

 

[RayClay]

Since you are intent on going overboard with your negative assessment of Blue, feel free to give all your examples of his poor play.

Again, I have been forthright about his lack of health and the fact that NE's depth is scary - meaning Blue's health is a major concern.

But you seem to want to go beyond that. You seem to want to say that Blue's play in the 2004 season, as well as the early parts of the 2005 and 2006 season shouldn't count for anything. Again, please find all these examples of Blue's poor play during those games.

And, yes, there is "plenty" of evidence that Blue is a good #2 CB when healthy. The problem is that there is even more evidence that health is not a sure thing at all.

I never said anything negative about him. I think the burden of proof is on him. I'm very happy a free agent who was injured half the time in college stepped in when we needed him.

People say Samuel took a big leap in his third year, while Gay seems to be making tremendous improvement while he's not even been playing or practicing.

If I say he's relatively untested except for a few good games I'm being negative?

Your the one projecting him as a proven veteran.

 

[Oswlek]

I never said anything negative about him. I think the burden of proof is on him. I'm very happy a free agent who was injured half the time in college stepped in when we needed him.

People say Samuel took a big leap in his third year, while Gay seems to be making tremendous improvement while he's not even been playing or practicing.

If I say he's relatively untested except for a few good games I'm being negative?

Your the one projecting him as a proven veteran.

If that was what you really said we would have had no disagreement.

I don't quite understand the second paragraph, though.

My point is that Gay is a good CB with injury issues. Every time he sees the field, he plays solidly. He just doesn't see the field enough. I really see no reason to dispute this.

 

[RayClay]

If that was what you really said we would have had no disagreement.

I don't quite understand the second paragraph, though.

My point is that Gay is a good CB with injury issues. Every time he sees the field, he plays solidly. He just doesn't see the field enough. I really see no reason to dispute this.

My point is gay played great when we were stuck.

I could not base an opinion the he's great or even good based on a very limited body of work.

Out of 11 starts, how many did he start at corner? (he played safety and nickel too).

Did he face the same receiver twice? Did he even show up on the radar so opposing coaches broke down his film to look for flaws? For tendencies?

TBC played STs a lot and got his chance when Seau went down.

Until the San Diego game, people were saying the position was covered for years, he was great!

I've seen plenty of guys play great for a few games then fade away.

If that's all it takes for you to make a definitive judgment fine, I think it takes a lot longer to prove yourself in the NFL.