The weakest link in Steelers offense is their lack of reliable depth and....Big Ben?

[GodBrady]

Every time you see a running back creating havoc, you should look at the O-line. I agree that Le'Veon Bell is a very, very good player, but he's not Adrian-Petersen-in-his-prime good. I don't think he's that much better than Forte, say. But, clearly, the results in the last two weeks have been amazing.

My guess is that BB will have a plan and that it involves the old two-gap and letting the linebackers fill the hole. It may not give negative yardage plays, but it will limit the damage. They can't be giving up chunks of 6 or 8 yards on first down like the Dolphins or the Chiefs.

I disagree, I think you're selling Bell short.

Bell's extrapolated full-season numbers this year look like this:
1691 yards rushing
819 yards receiving

That's 2510 yards from scrimmage. That would've set the all-time record for yards from scrimmage in a season. The top 5 ever are:
1. Chris Johnson - 2509 yards (2009)
2. Marshall Faulk - 2429 yards (1999)
3. Tiki Barber - 2390 yards (2005)
4. LaDanian Tomlinson - 2340 yards (2003)
5. Barry Sanders - 2358 yards (1997)

Not sure why you'd compare him to Adrian Peterson, because they are totally different players. Bell has excellent vision and is extremely patient (yes, I know the commentators have been fawning over this and talking about is ad nauseam lately, but it's true). Adrian Peterson is more of a violent and explosive runner, but his vision isn't great and he tends to be feast-or-famine. Bell is also a superior receiver to Peterson. Peterson has never been a factor in the passing game; in fact they often take him out completely on third down.

 

[GodBrady]

.....But once you get beyond Bell and Brown, who represent 51.8% of the Steelers yards from scrimmage in 2016, there aren’t many other consistent threats in the Pittsburgh offense.

This statement by Hill is just nonsense. The two points ("Brown and Bell account for 52% of the offense", "not many are other consistent threats") he made are basically mutually exclusive. When you heavily revolve your offense around Bell/Brown, of course the numbers of other players are going to look pedestrian. That's not a knock on their other players, it's just a testament to how good Bell and Brown are.

The numbers of the supporting cast are not far off from Atlanta's, but Pittsburgh focuses on Brown even more (Brown had 155 targets this year, Julio had 129).

 

[mgcolby]

If the point is to wall off the los why would you tell your DL to go to one gap, rather than control the blocker and play 2 gap? A DL trying to get to a gap is much easier to move than a DL trying to control the blocker.
If you aren't going to penetrate the gap, there is no reason to play one gap, you would essentially be telling the DL to avoid the OL then stand still while the OL gains a blocking angle on you.

A DL can get hands and maintain one gap responsibility. The 4-2-5 for example is solidly built around this premise. In the 4-3 it can be applied just the same.

 

[Uptown]

I disagree, I think you're selling Bell short.

Bell's extrapolated full-season numbers this year look like this:
1691 yards rushing
819 yards receiving

That's 2510 yards from scrimmage. That would've set the all-time record for yards from scrimmage in a season. The top 5 ever are:
1. Chris Johnson - 2509 yards (2009)
2. Marshall Faulk - 2429 yards (1999)
3. Tiki Barber - 2390 yards (2005)
4. LaDanian Tomlinson - 2340 yards (2003)
5. Barry Sanders - 2358 yards (1997)

Not sure why you'd compare him to Adrian Peterson, because they are totally different players. Bell has excellent vision and is extremely patient (yes, I know the commentators have been fawning over this and talking about is ad nauseam lately, but it's true). Adrian Peterson is more of a violent and explosive runner, but his vision isn't great and he tends to be feast-or-famine. Bell is also a superior receiver to Peterson. Peterson has never been a factor in the passing game; in fact they often take him out completely on third down.

Also, AP wasn't/isn't great catching passes out of the backfield.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I disagree, I think you're selling Bell short.

My point is not to disrespect Bell's achievement, but to say that, to my eyes, he's a runner who needs (and exploits) his O-line. Put Petersen in his prime behind a sub-standard O-line and he will still get yards. Just as a runner, I think it's less true of Bell (witness the first Steelers-Pats game). But he has taken fantastic advantage of the creases available and is an outstanding player: to repeat myself again, I think stopping him is the key to the game.

 

[Ring 6]

A DL can get hands and maintain one gap responsibility. The 4-2-5 for example is solidly built around this premise. In the 4-3 it can be applied just the same.

No it isn't. Think about what you are saying. You want the DL to drive into the B gap, lets say, and then stop and stand there, while the OL now has a favorable blocking angle on him? How do you expect him to control a guy with his hands that he is trying to avoid? One gap technique is avoid the blocker, 2 gap is control the blocker.

Look at it another way. I am lined up over the G. You are telling me it is my job to control the los. You tell me to go into the B gap. I am now moving in the direction the G wants to take me to bring me beyond the B gap. In the type of offense Pitt runs, the OL will take you where you want to go. In this instance the G will NEVER (In Pitts offense) try to 'hook' you and turn you inside he is going to take you right past the B gap, and Bell will cut in behind. That is their system.
OL/DL play is about leverage and angle.

In this example if it were against a team that runs downhill to a determined hole, then you have a 50% shot of going the right way. But vs Pitt, you just literally took yourself out of the play.

There is not a DL in the NFL who can go from over the G to the B gap while the G is trying to move hiom toward and beyond the B gap and 'get hands' and control the OL. That concept and player just doesn't exist.

 

[mgcolby]

No it isn't. Think about what you are saying. You want the DL to drive into the B gap, lets say, and then stop and stand there, while the OL now has a favorable blocking angle on him? How do you expect him to control a guy with his hands that he is trying to avoid? One gap technique is avoid the blocker, 2 gap is control the blocker.

Look at it another way. I am lined up over the G. You are telling me it is my job to control the los. You tell me to go into the B gap. I am now moving in the direction the G wants to take me to bring me beyond the B gap. In the type of offense Pitt runs, the OL will take you where you want to go. In this instance the G will NEVER (In Pitts offense) try to 'hook' you and turn you inside he is going to take you right past the B gap, and Bell will cut in behind. That is their system.
OL/DL play is about leverage and angle.

In this example if it were against a team that runs downhill to a determined hole, then you have a 50% shot of going the right way. But vs Pitt, you just literally took yourself out of the play.

There is not a DL in the NFL who can go from over the G to the B gap while the G is trying to move hiom toward and beyond the B gap and 'get hands' and control the OL. That concept and player just doesn't exist.

Yes it does. It's coached into the 4-2-5 which can hybrid from a 4-3 to a 4-4 run fit principle. You get hands and you squeeze the gap, if you want to call that two gap fine. I am aware of the two/gap one gap front which is employed as part of th 4-2-5 flexibility. But I have never talked to another coach about the 4-2-5 who doesn't emphasize getting hands and squeezing the gap. Penetration primarily comes from the ends in this defense unless you have a stud DL that just blows up blockers, but that is talent not scheme.

I'm not sure what you are arguing against? It's the core of the interior of the 4-2-5. Just like spilling the lead blocker. It's in its DNA.

And we are getting off topic. I will discuss it further but after I go back and see how they fronted it mostly in the first game.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes it does. It's coached into the 4-2-5 which can hybrid from a 4-3 to a 4-4 run fit principle. You get hands and you squeeze the gap, if you want to call that two gap fine. I am aware of the two/gap one gap front which is employed as part of th 4-2-5 flexibility. But I have never talked to another coach about the 4-2-5 who doesn't emphasize getting hands and squeezing the gap. Penetration primarily comes from the ends in this defense unless you have a stud DL that just blows up blockers, but that is talent not scheme.

I'm not sure what you are arguing against? It's the core of the interior of the 4-2-5. Just like spilling the lead blocker. It's in its DNA.

And we are getting off topic. I will discuss it further but after I go back and see how they fronted it mostly in the first game.

You said play one gap. There is no one gap concept that involves driving into the gap and engaging a blocker. But it sounds like you have changed your answer to playing 2 gap but favoring a side but having the DEs penetrate? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Plus formation doesn't determine one gap or 2 gap, you can play either out of any formation.

My point was that one gap defense while more likely to blow up a play in the backfield, is also more like to create large cutback seams. Making it one gap without penetration makes no sense, you would simply play 2 gap, and be able to engage without an angle disadvantage, and cover a larger area of the field.

 

[mosi]

Nice breakdown of Roethlisberger struggles this season....

http://deadspin.com/which-ben-roethlisberger-will-the-steelers-get-this-wee-1791086732

Actually, watching that makes me think his knee is still not right. I would try to make him move in the pocket and see how he reacts. He used to be deadly when moving around but that could be his achilles heal this year.

 

[mgcolby]

You said play one gap. There is no one gap concept that involves driving into the gap and engaging a blocker. But it sounds like you have changed your answer to playing 2 gap but favoring a side but having the DEs penetrate? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Plus formation doesn't determine one gap or 2 gap, you can play either out of any formation.

My point was that one gap defense while more likely to blow up a play in the backfield, is also more like to create large cutback seams. Making it one gap without penetration makes no sense, you would simply play 2 gap, and be able to engage without an angle disadvantage, and cover a larger area of the field.

I didn't change my answer. I just simply stated you can engage a blocker and only have one gap responsibility. A quick review of the Pats/Steelers game shows mutliple fronts (obviously), and the two gap/one gap principle. One play clearly shows Brown in a 4i engage the Defender establishing is hand position and maintaining the B Gap.

It happens. Some screen shots. Looks like Sheard has C, Brown has B and Roberts should have A. But Roberts over pursues his gap and the Guard gets a free block on him 2 yards beyond the LOS. Bell cuts back to the back side A and gains 5 yards.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't change my answer. I just simply stated you can engage a blocker and only have one gap responsibility. A quick review of the Pats/Steelers game shows mutliple fronts (obviously), and the two gap/one gap principle. One play clearly shows Brown in a 4i engage the Defender establishing is hand position and maintaining the B Gap.

It happens. Some screen shots. Looks like Sheard has C, Brown has B and Roberts should have A. But Roberts over pursues his gap and the Guard gets a free block on him 2 yards beyond the LOS. Bell cuts back to the back side A and gains 5 yards.

View attachment 15751 View attachment 15754 View attachment 15755

Ok you just showed me classic 2 gap run d.

 

[mgcolby]

Ok you just showed me classic 2 gap run d.

You have to watch the video. Brown is not 2 gaping. He is clearly fighting to and maintaining B throughout the process at no point did he try to stay gap neutral between B and C. And I'm don't feel like screenshoting this any more. Not sure if you have Gamepass but you can watch the play for yourself if you do, its visible in the sidebar.

 

[Ring 6]

You have to watch the video. Brown is not 2 gaping. He is clearly fighting to and maintaining B throughout the process at no point did he try to stay gap neutral between B and C. And I'm don't feel like screenshoting this any more. Not sure if you have Gamepass but you can watch the play for yourself if you do, its visible in the sidebar.

Not much more to discuss here. Brown lines up shading the inside and his first movement is into the blocker, which is 2 gap technique. The blocker is blocking him toward the b gap and Brown is fighting it.
I am going to move on, this seems to be a waste of time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bell worries me a lot, more than A.Brown.

Here's the thing. The Patriots faced Bell already and held him to 21 Carries and 81 yards.. Even when they haven't been playing to stop the run first, they've held teams to under 95 yards/game most of the season.. Granted, the only GOOD RBs the Pats have faced since Bell were Ajayi and Gurley. And Gurley is having a horrible season because he'd got a crap O-line.

The Pitt O-line is no different this time around. The general defensive game plan probably won't be any different either. Stop the run. Contain the QB in the pocket so he can't work his magic and play tight man-to-man coverage..

I'm not downplaying how good Bell is. He's a beast. But the Pats D can hold him in check.

 

[DaBruinz]

Healthy enough to QB a team that has won 8 in a row.

I wouldn't mind being that healthy.

Big Ben didn't play in the last game of the season.. Jones did.. Because Big Ben was nursing an injury.. f

 

[mosi]

Here's the thing. The Patriots faced Bell already and held him to 21 Carries and 81 yards.. Even when they haven't been playing to stop the run first, they've held teams to under 95 yards/game most of the season.. Granted, the only GOOD RBs the Pats have faced since Bell were Ajayi and Gurley. And Gurley is having a horrible season because he'd got a crap O-line.

The Pitt O-line is no different this time around. The general defensive game plan probably won't be any different either. Stop the run. Contain the QB in the pocket so he can't work his magic and play tight man-to-man coverage..

I'm not downplaying how good Bell is. He's a beast. But the Pats D can hold him in check.

But you could look at it a different way. When all the Pats had to worry about was Bell, he still got 81 yards! Now that you have to worry about Ben and Brown, how many yards will Bell get? Personally, I wonder if letting Bell get 200+ yards between the 20's would work. Keep them to FGs and let Brady score 28.

 

[brdmaverick]

Just tell Malcolm Butler he'll have a contract offer right after the game if he can limit Brown to 70 yards or less.

 

[brdmaverick]

But you could look at it a different way. When all the Pats had to worry about was Bell, he still got 81 yards! Now that you have to worry about Ben and Brown, how many yards will Bell get? Personally, I wonder if letting Bell get 200+ yards between the 20's would work. Keep them to FGs and let Brady score 28.

I haven't watched that game in awhile, but I recall our defenders trying to tackle Bell looking like someone trying to grab a fish out of water.

 

[DaBruinz]

But you could look at it a different way. When all the Pats had to worry about was Bell, he still got 81 yards! Now that you have to worry about Ben and Brown, how many yards will Bell get? Personally, I wonder if letting Bell get 200+ yards between the 20's would work. Keep them to FGs and let Brady score 28.

SMH.. The issue with looking at it your way is that it ignores what Bell did in the other 11 games he played in during the season..
Bell played in 12 games. Had 261 attempts for 1268 yards . Also had 75 receptions for 616 yards.

Against the Patriots, he had 21 rushes for 81 yards and 10 receptions for 68 yards.

That leaves 240 attempts for 1187 yards and 65 receptions for 548 yards..
That's a 107.9 yards/ game , 4.95 YPC and a 8.4 YPR vs. 81 yards, 3.86YPC and a 6.8 YPC.

Sure seems to me that slowing down Le'Veon Bell is the way to stop the Steelers offense. Especially when you consider that in each of the Steelers 4 losses, Bell was held to under 85 yards..

 

[DaBruinz]

Just tell Malcolm Butler he'll have a contract offer right after the game if he can limit Brown to 70 yards or less.

That's if they put Butler on him. They didn't do that this year for most of the game..