The Practice Squad

[patriot lifer]

So I guess the question is? What's the end game for that 53 spot? is it to develop backup linebackers or find future linebackers. Either way what future do they see in Alexander or maybe the devil you knows better than the one you don't.

While we all like Guyton, we need a more legit back-up inside LB behind TB and Mayo. If we take Seau out of the equation, then who do we have? AD and Lynch might occasionally take their turns there but we need a more legitimate option. Otherwise, we leave ourselves quite thin at the position, and letting go a guy who knows the playbook is tough for a coaching staff to do. But you're definitely right that Alexander has reached his low ceiling. Guyton would be a lot more interesting to keep if it were down between the two.

 

[pats1]

Kyle Eckel RB Miami (we got him back a year later when they tried to pass him to the PS)

Actually two years - he was on the Reserve/Military list for all of 2005 and 2006.

 

[alvinnf]

Alexander is good enough fight know to be active in every game, and play on all the special team units. Alexander is good enough right now to be the #3 ILB (over Hobson and hopefully to be replaced by Seau).

To be clear, if the season were starting next weekend, Alexander would be our first ILB off the bench and one of our top special teamers.

What is the litmus point to give the next guy a shot? And how do you get your words above the Quote, I'M FROM THE EIGHTIES.

 

[alvinnf]

While we all like Guyton, we need a more legit back-up inside LB behind TB and Mayo. If we take Seau out of the equation, then who do we have? AD and Lynch might occasionally take their turns there but we need a more legitimate option. Otherwise, we leave ourselves quite thin at the position, and letting go a guy who knows the playbook is tough for a coaching staff to do. But you're definitely right that Alexander has reached his low ceiling. Guyton would be a lot more interesting to keep if it were down between the two.

You have some flexibility with AD and Vrabel, maybe that gives you the luxury of keeping someone who exhibits more raw talent.

 

[patriot lifer]

You have some flexibility with AD and Vrabel, maybe that gives you the luxury of keeping someone who exhibits more raw talent.

very true, but again, you really want a more legitimate 3rd inside guy for depth. it's real hard for the coaches to let the position be a tad thin to start the season.

Here's how I break it down:

for Linebacker, we should figure on about 9 players
the Pats would carry about 3 players at each of the two positions (inside and outside) that they can count on to actually play defense

3 outside - Vrabel, AD, Woods
3 inside - Bruschi, Mayo, Alexander

for that last inside spot, it needs to be someone we can count on.

after the above 6 we have 3 spots open for:

Izzo, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Ruud, and Hobson

Ruud will be in all likelihood cut (7th rounder, if someone takes him, then too bad)
Crable will likely occupy one space
Hobson looks like he'll be cut. He's battling for the same spot as Alexander, which he's losing.
Izzo will probably be kept even though a lot of us don't mind seeing him go.

So if both Crable and Izzo occupy two of the remaining three slots, then either Guyton or Redd will make the 53. Otherwise they're cut, and if they don't make it to the ps, then it's a shame. I think they would keep Guyton over Redd just because he's a 4th rounder.

 

[mgteich]

1) Guyton is an undrafted free agent, same as Redd.
2) I want a veteran for this spot, especially in case of injury during the season. Seau is the perfect choice. Otherwise, I'd keep Hobson and give him a bit more than a preseason of practice and three preseasons game to learn the defense.

So if both Crable and Izzo occupy two of the remaining three slots, then either Guyton or Redd will make the 53. Otherwise they're cut, and if they don't make it to the ps, then it's a shame. I think they would keep Guyton over Redd just because he's a 4th rounder.

 

[loosebearing]

ILB i would take over Alexander

AD and Vrabel, Seau, Izzo, Guyton (Woods, Crable, and Lynch give you the flexiblitiy with AD and Vrabel)

And Izzo on ST

 

[loosebearing]

I want veterans ...

How did that do in Brady vs Bledsoe

Trust what you see

 

[patriot lifer]

1) Guyton is an undrafted free agent, same as Redd.
2) I want a veteran for this spot, especially in case of injury during the season. Seau is the perfect choice. Otherwise, I'd keep Hobson and give him a bit more than a preseason of practice and three preseasons game to learn the defense.

wow, I can't believe i mixed up wilhite and guyton. I'll inflict 12 lashings later tonight.

Hobson would be a more conservative pick to stay, but I just feel like with the possibility of Seau returning, they will dump him. Maybe that will be indicative of whether or not they plan on taking Seau back???

As Reiss as recently reported, Hobson is not on the 1st team special teams, which is not a good sign for him

 

[pats1]

Well, here are the UDFAs (including those claimed off waivers, like Stephen Neal) of the Belichick era. I think listing these names helps make mgteich's point:

2000:

WR Matt Bumgardner
WR Shockmain Davis
WR Tony Hamler
WR Ryan Shaw
WR Martinez Williams
TE Chris Eitzmann
T Ryan Tujague
G Terrance Beadles
G Adam Davis
C Rob Gatrell
C Seneca Gray
DE Reggie Grimes
DE Scott Pospisil
DT Maurice Anderson
DT Garrett Johnson
LB Matt Beck
LB John Eskridge
LB Roshaun Matthews
LB Tony Ortiz
LB Barrin Simpson
LB Jamel Smith
LB Maugaula Tuitele
CB Robbie Duncan
CB Evan Howell
CB Mike Woods
S Rodney Rideau
K Chad Holleman
K/P Kareem Anderson
P Jimmy Kibble
LS Lonie Paxton
LS Thad Sheldon

2001:

QB Ben Leard
QB Michael Van Raaphorst
RB Walter Williams
WR Ronney Daniels
WR Scott McCready
G/C Drew Inzer
G Stephen Neal
DT Jace Sayler
LB Yubrenal Isabelle
P Dan Hadenfeldt
LS Ryan Burch

2002:

QB Major Applewhite
WR T.C. Taylor
G/C Howard Duncan

2003:

RB Derek Watson
WR Chas Gessner
WR Michael Hayes
WR Rob Milanese
WR Dan Stricker
WR Kerry Watkins
T Joe Schey
G Kyle Croskey
G Corey Mitchell
G Gene Mruczkowski
G Dave Petruziello
G/C Jasen Esposito
DE Buck Rasmussen
DT Walter Sampson
LB Jason Hunt
LB Chad Lee
LB Matt Word
CB Ricklan Holmes-Miller
S Scott Farley
S Chris Massey
S Shawn Mayer

2004:

WR Ricky Bryant
TE Joel Jacobs
TE Andy Mignery
DT Louis Gachelin
LB Eric Alexander
LB Quinn Dorsey
LB Grant Steen
CB Randall Gay
P Cody Scates
LS Brian Sawyer

2005:

RB DeCori Birmingham
RB Earl Charles
FB Kyle Eckel
FB Matt Phillips
WR Bam Childress
WR Michael McGrew
T Mike Lorenz
G Ryan Krug
G Michael Rogers
DT Santonio Thomas
DT Mike Wright
LB Andre Torrey
S Ray Ventrone
K Robbie Gould
P Rhett Kopp
LS Travis Conway

2006:

QB Corey Bramlet
RB Patrick Cobbs
WR Erik Davis
WR Matt Shelton
WR Jakari Wallace
T Randy Hand
G/C Brian Barthelmes
DE Kader Drame
DT Remi Ayodele
LB Corey Mays
LB Freddie Roach
LB Pierre Woods
CB Vernell Brown
CB Gemara Williams
S Jarvis Herring
S Keon Jackson
S Sam Smith

2007:

QB Matt Gutierrez
RB Quinton Smith
WR Chris Dunlap
TE Jake Nordin
T/G Chris Patrick
DE Zach West
LB Kyle Bissinger
LB Justin Warren
CB Larry Anam
S Denny Poland

2008:

RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
TE Tyson DeVree
TE Jonathan Stupar
T Lavdrim Bauta
T Josh Coffman
C Ryan Wendell
DE Chris Norwell
DE Casey Tyler
DT Carlos Feliciano
DT Henry Smith
LB Gary Guyton
LB Vince Redd
S Mark Dillard
P Mike Dragosavich

 

[alvinnf]

Well, here are the UDFAs (including those claimed off waivers, like Stephen Neal) of the Belichick era. I think listing these names helps make mgteich's point:

Actually, were talking about replacing one for one, lets think of it as a trade in, we're upside down on Alexander right now.

 

[cstjohn17]

Have any players cut by the Patriots ever turned into serviceable NFL players? for that matter when was the last time a rookie was cut by his original team and went on to have any impact on another roster?

 

[pats1]

Have any players cut by the Patriots ever turned into serviceable NFL players? for that matter when was the last time a rookie was cut by his original team and went on to have any impact on another roster?

Robbie Gould (UDFA)

 

[DocE]

I agree with the idea that it's unlikely that either Redd or Guyton is claimed by another team, but it wouldn't shock me if one was claimed. Guyton has flashed a little on special teams and that could get him signed to another teams active roster. Teams are more willing to take a project on that they know can contribute on special teams immediately while learning their craft on offense/defense.

I haven't been impressed with Eric Alexander, but I do feel like he has spot on the 53 man roster as of today. I feel like BB might bring Seau back, but for a late season run at a title. Keeping Seau fresh and healthy for the final 4-6 regular season games and the playoffs.

One other option that I've mentioned before: Guyton makes the team over Alexander at ILB, but Adalius Thomas plays inside if there is an injury during a game. Seau (and perhaps Alexander) are on speed dial for the next weeks game should Bruschi or Mayo be out for an extended period of time.

 

[Julius]

Garrett Mills currently has 0 catches in pre season for the Vikings so maybe Belichick will get his guy back.

 

[Mark Morse]

Brown, Rogers, and Mills weren't UDFAs. Brown and Mills were not cut during cut prior to the season of their rookie years anyway. Mills was cut in his second season and Brown was cut midseason.

Cobbs was traded to Pittsburgh for a conditional draft pick that never was claimed because Pittsburgh cut him after the first game.

The Pats cut Eckel because the Navy wasn't going to let him out of his commitment.

I agree that Brown, Rogers and Mills were draft picks and Cobbs was traded rather than lose him to waivers (he eventually ended up in Denver. However, Eckel had an agreement (which has since been changed by the DoD) to work in a recruiting office and play for the Patriots. When he was picked up by Miami he was dishonorably discharged by the Navy for an incident that happened while at the academy.

 

[Mark Morse]

Thanks Pats1 for that outstanding list of UDFA since 2000. Thats 12 players that have made the Patriots roster and contributed (not including Vinatieri). Neal is a starter. Gay and Alexander have started in playoff games. Mike Wright started the season at DT one year. Mayer finished a Super Bowl at S. My point is that every year (except one) the Patriots have kept an UDFA on their final 53 man roster. They can use this to attract other UDFA. All they want is a chance and an honest opportunity to win a job. Guyton and Redd are two of those types of players. Ventrone is that type of player.

 

[BPF]

Robbie Gould (UDFA)

I'm assuimg you are talking undrafted free agents and not draft picks. In addition to Gould I would add: G Rich Tylski and CB Corey Ivy and WR Dane Looker (he had 47 catches for the Rams in 2003). All solid not spectacular.

 

[BPF]

for that matter when was the last time a rookie was cut by his original team and went on to have any impact on another roster?

Wes Welker comes to mind. Waived by San Diego after 1 game, claimed by Miami and played 14 games in his first year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree that Brown, Rogers and Mills were draft picks and Cobbs was traded rather than lose him to waivers (he eventually ended up in Denver. However, Eckel had an agreement (which has since been changed by the DoD) to work in a recruiting office and play for the Patriots. When he was picked up by Miami he was dishonorably discharged by the Navy for an incident that happened while at the academy.

It's not clear what happened in the post-waiver cluster**** (the one that ensued after Saban claimed Eckel off waivers and put him on the reserve list) that led to Eckel leaving the Navy; no one has said. But, in any case, Eckel was not dishonorably discharged (that requires a court-martial); as far as I can tell, he was "allowed to resign."