The perceived need at Wide Reciever

[varjao]

If you discount the money we would pay for Amendola things will balance out a little. Bill has no emotions.

 

[Wrath Mania]

Or it could be not having gronk, ya know.

Or it could be that, despite still being very efficient without gronk, they might want to fully ensure they can threaten a defense in different ways if he's unavailable, ya know.

 

[New England Pride]

Every year, we have people here who insist that the team doesn't need WR help.
Every year, BB looks for WR help.

This is a lather, rinse, repeat scenario.

Who is insisting they don't need a WR? I'm just a little curious why we would be interested in giving up a top corner for help at a position we are alright at.

I think a value free agent signing or a draft pick is the typical Belichick move here.

 

[NashuaPats]

Edelman 31
Amendola 32

Yes, we need a young replacement. Cooks is more than that as he can play the slot, outside, and deep. He's 23.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who is insisting they don't need a WR? I'm just a little curious why we would be interested in giving up a top corner for help at a position we are alright at.

I think a value free agent signing or a draft pick is the typical Belichick move here.

I'm not going to name names. It's a pretty static group from year to year, generally.

As for what they need:

• Slot guy to develop behind Edelman (or someone already developed, if it can be gotten)
  
• Legit WR1 type of middle-deep threat

 

[maineman209]

Both Edelman and Amendola are UFA at the end of 2017, and both are on the wrong side of 30 by the start of this season. Amendola has even (reportedly) been considering retirement.

So, basically, side from the RBs, the Pats currently have no one to "make their living" from the slot for 2018 unless they put Mitchell or Hogan in that role or draft someone (a crap shoot).

Cooks (specifically Cooks and not the rest of the FAs who've been rumored to the Pats) has Edelman's elite agility (3.81 shuttle, 6.76 3-cone) PLUS legitimate deep speed (4.33 40yd, 1.54 10yd). AND he only turns 24 in September. AND he's currently scheduled to make just slightly more over the next TWO years than Amendola would be making for just 2017.

So, I wouldn't say that it's a "need for WRs" in general, but for a receiver who's capable of filling a specific receiving role at an elite level.

 

[FCB02062]

Just because there r media reports doesn't mean belichick thinks there's a need.... But Edelman, amendola, at or nearing 30....need that next slot guy

 

[Jangles]

Says who? Diana russini?

Butler For Cooks Deal Being Hashed Out Between NE-NO

Steve Balestrieri

Now comes the news that the Patriots are talking a trade with New Orleans with Malcolm Butler and Brandin Cooks being dealt straight up.

Continue reading...

(If you enjoyed this entry - hit the Thumbs Up/If not, hit the Thumbs down in this thread)

So there's that

 

[Rdforty2]

I don't know if it's necessarily a need, but teams always need to evaluate and upgrade.

FWIW, Cooks is probably the best fit of top tier WR (top20 or so). He's a game breaker. Just don't think he's worth the mentioned rumors.

I think some are exaggerating a need. Yes Edelman may be getting up there in age. But he's still got a few years left, at least. Amendola really hasn't played that much in recent years. I don't think he's "wearing down." Mitchell and Hogsn are young and only going to get better. So I wouldn't say our group is aging, when 1/2 is 24/25 years old.

I understand the desire for Cooks but not the rumored price. WR is not an immediate need. I'd rather attempt to groom one with a draft pick or just wait for Bill to pick up another Hogan or Welker when he sees the opportunity.

 

[Rdforty2]

Getting a rookie WR is always a crap shoot, as we have seen in the past. Being able to obtain a top flight speed wr that can score from anywhere on the field and who has excelled in a complicated offense is very difficult. Corners can generally come in and play as rookies.....WRs not so much.

Patriots have an aging group.
Would not be surprised to see Edlemen take less snaps this season. Cooks in the slot with MM on the outside. Hogan would then be brought in in certain packages or spell Edlemen on the outside. They probably will also draft a guy.

The draft is supposedly deep in CB as well.

Just wanted to expand on the talk of the offense being tough for a rookie WR. It absolutely is. But, we've also seen it be difficult for veterans to pick up. Ochocinco, Galloway, Wayne .... I know Cooks is more gifted than those guys at the stage we had them but buying into the culture and playbook is hard for everyone. Not just rookies. Each WR we look at and bring aboard is a special case. I also know we picked up Moss and Welker that clicked. Just saying it's not always as easy as vet vs rook.

 

[manxman2601]

Just wanted to expand on the talk of the offense being tough for a rookie WR. It absolutely is. But, we've also seen it be difficult for veterans to pick up. Ochocinco, Galloway, Wayne .... I know Cooks is more gifted than those guys at the stage we had them but buying into the culture and playbook is hard for everyone. Not just rookies. Each WR we look at and bring aboard is a special case. I also know we picked up Moss and Welker that clicked. Just saying it's not always as easy as vet vs rook.

Bear in mind that BB has had close looks at Cooks in joint practices.

 

[reflexblue]

Just because there r media reports doesn't mean belichick thinks there's a need.... But Edelman, amendola, at or nearing 30....need that next slot guy

To me cooks sounds like hes an outside speed guy, thats not edelman or amendola.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

I trust BB as much as the next Pats fan, however, I just don't see an immediate need at WR. Sure, Jules and Amendola are aging. Sure, it might be optimal to replace Amendola by someone younger and better than will be able to also replace Jules maybe as soon as 2018. Sure, a guy like Cooks could be exactly that.

However, I feel that we would be better off keeping Butler for the year under the 1st round tender and field an elite defense. Edelman, Amendola, Hogan and Mitchell are a very good group of WRs, we have Allen and Gronk at TE and Lewis/White as pass catching backs. We also have a very adequate line. All we lack right now is a power back.

I will blindly trust whatever decision BB ends up taking, but I would be much more comfortable if we were to keep Butler and field an elite defense.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i dont think Cooks is one of the top WR's in the NFL but if Gronk is not on the field every other WR not named Edelman had a total of about 1200 yards. we dont know if Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell will get but

 

[Rdforty2]

Bear in mind that BB has had close looks at Cooks in joint practices.

Very true, and something I am aware of.

While that gives you a little more insight than you might get for another player that didn't have that opportunity, I don't think it justifies the value. I'm sure Bill likes Cooks. You don't have to be as smart as Bill to see what he brings. But, it also doesn't guarantee he buys into having a game plan that doesn't feature him every week. He's complained in NO and he's caught 160 balls the last 2 years. With our group of receivers, tight ends, and versatile RB's, there's no guarantee he reaches 80 catches or X number of targets per game. He'll be heavily involved, but it certainly won't be more than he is in NO imo. Bill seeing him in practice also doesn't guarantee he can pick up our playbook. That's not saying there are questions about Cook's intelligence, it's just that we've seen vet receivers struggle that you wouldn't have expected to.

I am a big Cooks fan and think his speed would bring an element we dont have. I just do not like the value it looks like wed have to give up, if rumors are true.

Keep Butler and reassess him next year. Go with a potentially dominant secondary on the March for anot her title. Draft a kid in the third to try and develop with Edelman and/or Amendola.

 

[maineman209]

To me cooks sounds like hes an outside speed guy, thats not edelman or amendola.

Patriots slot guys need elite agility - short shuttle under 4.00 seconds and 3-cone under 6.80 seconds. Edelman has those numbers, but no elite long speed. Cooks has those numbers PLUS elite long speed. Having elite long speed doesn't disqualify Cooks from working out of the slot.

 

[maineman209]

Very true, and something I am aware of.

While that gives you a little more insight than you might get for another player that didn't have that opportunity, I don't think it justifies the value. I'm sure Bill likes Cooks. You don't have to be as smart as Bill to see what he brings. But, it also doesn't guarantee he buys into having a game plan that doesn't feature him every week. He's complained in NO and he's caught 160 balls the last 2 years. With our group of receivers, tight ends, and versatile RB's, there's no guarantee he reaches 80 catches or X number of targets per game. He'll be heavily involved, but it certainly won't be more than he is in NO imo. Bill seeing him in practice also doesn't guarantee he can pick up our playbook. That's not saying there are questions about Cook's intelligence, it's just that we've seen vet receivers struggle that you wouldn't have expected to.

I am a big Cooks fan and think his speed would bring an element we dont have. I just do not like the value it looks like wed have to give up, if rumors are true.

Keep Butler and reassess him next year. Go with a potentially dominant secondary on the March for anot her title. Draft a kid in the third to try and develop with Edelman and/or Amendola.

Usage over the past three seasons:

Cooks (32 games active) = 9.9 tgts/game, 6.7 receptions /game
Edelman (35 games active) = 10.9 tgts/game, 7.2 rec/game
Their catch rates are roughly the same ... +/- 67%.

Cooks' legit deep speed makes him more versatile than Edelman, so he could conceivably be targeted even a bit more than Edelman has been.

 

[Flash]

You need reliable weapons since:

1. We have no idea how well Gronk recovers from his surgery.
2. Edelman/Amendola are always playing hurt.
3. Mitchell is still very young, no clue if he will develop into a good WR.
4. Removing the four players above, we have only Hogan as the top WR that plays well and is healthy throughout the season.

Which then means Cooks makes a lot of sense. Outside of the lack of size Cooks is basically good at everything else, and is still really young.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I have bashed our offense for years whenever we don't get it done. I've been pretty consistent in the fact that if our defense holds a team under 20 points we should win. Period. Our defense is consistent and is at least adequate come the playoffs no matter who we field, but our regular season offense magically becomes ineffective against quality defenses and that seemed to change when we had well rounded wr2 options. In 2014 it was Lafell and this year it was Hogan along with a few other contributors. I have no problem in trying to keep an offense that can thrive in the playoffs going at the expense of a defensive player or 2.

p.s. I take everything back if multiple players on d look like Gary Guyton lol. I don't even want to imagine what a sophomore slump would look like for Cyrus Jones lol.

 

[Rdforty2]

Usage over the past three seasons:

Cooks (32 games active) = 9.9 tgts/game, 6.7 receptions /game
Edelman (35 games active) = 10.9 tgts/game, 7.2 rec/game
Their catch rates are roughly the same ... +/- 67%.

Cooks' legit deep speed makes him more versatile than Edelman, so he could conceivably be targeted even a bit more than Edelman has been.

The problem with that stat is that Edelman will still be around. Edelman is still productive and is cheap. Edelman may be a FA in a year but all the reasons people are mentioning age/durability, are why he will continue to come cheap. He's not leaving Tom and the Pat's to cash in in a year. Nobody is going to "pay" him.

It may be Amendola is out but even if you take out Amendola's toughest, it's not going to come close to 21 (combined of the 2 stats you mentioned before). With Hogan and Mitchell improving with a year in the system and the potential for a healthy Gronk, I don't see Cooks getting the 10 targets a game, on average. Sometimes, even most of the time, of course. But will he be happy with the possibility of going from 10 to 3 from one game plan to the next?

I'm not arguing that he becomes useless. I'm merely stating that the Patriot offense isn't designed to feed anyone player the ball. Cooks is unhappy in NO because of the inconsistency in his role. What changes in New England?