The Patriots Should Bring Back Both LaAdrian Waddle, Cameron Fleming

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The Patriots Should Bring Back Both LaAdrian Waddle, Cameron Fleming

Steve Balestrieri

<span style="font-weight: 400;Like the old saying goes...you can never have enough tackles or cornerbacks. And the Patriots were indeed fortunate to have the depth they enjo

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[patriot1136]

I would be ok with this. Depth is always a good thing to have. Not to mention the injury history of Waddle. I just don't know if we can afford both. Is Cannon expected back in training camp? I hope he comes back 100%

 

[maineman209]

Very good analysis of the situation.

Fleming has started and played full games at both tackle positions and at both guard positions. That versatility is an extra value in backup OL since it can save a roster spot. Waddle doesn't appear to be nearly as versatile.

Waddle (6060/315-320) is also closer to the prototypical size for an NFL tackle than Fleming (6047/325). Combined with his performance as the initial replacement for Cannon at starting RT this past season, as well as his previous experience starting 18 games for the Lions at RT, it seems to me that Waddle is the more likely of the two to get competitive offers from other OL-needy teams.

Meanwhile, the Pats kept Croston (6054/315-320) on the 53-man roster all season. During Camp/pre-season, he was reportedly practicing at both tackle and guard, so there may be some positional versatility under development with Croston, too. Croston is also more athletic than either Waddle or Fleming.

Still, the lynch-pin for the OL is still re-signing Solder (if he still wants to play).

 

[GoBlue]

Waddle a great player when healthy. But he is rarely healthy. When injured it takes him a long time to rehab. He certainly isn't worth a lot of money to where he can play 3 or 4 games a year at full strength.

 

[mihap]

Cannon sucked, Waddle sucked, Flemming sucked and now they prove that they more thatn just backups. As long we have Dante I am fine with Corston, Jelks and Garcia as backup.
We need starting LT. Resigning Solder or move Cannon to LT and Waddle or Flemming to RT.
But i think they ll keep only one of those 3 OT.

 

[maineman209]

Cannon sucked, Waddle sucked, Flemming sucked and now they prove that they more thatn just backups. As long we have Dante I am fine with Corston, Jelks and Garcia as backup.
We need starting LT. Resigning Solder or move Cannon to LT and Waddle or Flemming to RT.
But i think they ll keep only one of those 3 OT.

Garcia lost 45lbs to a mystery illness while he was on the NFI List. Jelks hasn't played a football game since the end of the 2014 college season. Neither has played a down of NFL level football.

But you're "fine" with them as backups?

 

[Tony2046]

Very good analysis of the situation.

Fleming has started and played full games at both tackle positions and at both guard positions. That versatility is an extra value in backup OL since it can save a roster spot. Waddle doesn't appear to be nearly as versatile.

Waddle (6060/315-320) is also closer to the prototypical size for an NFL tackle than Fleming (6047/325). Combined with his performance as the initial replacement for Cannon at starting RT this past season, as well as his previous experience starting 18 games for the Lions at RT, it seems to me that Waddle is the more likely of the two to get competitive offers from other OL-needy teams.

Meanwhile, the Pats kept Croston (6054/315-320) on the 53-man roster all season. During Camp/pre-season, he was reportedly practicing at both tackle and guard, so there may be some positional versatility under development with Croston, too. Croston is also more athletic than either Waddle or Fleming.

Still, the lynch-pin for the OL is still re-signing Solder (if he still wants to play).

Didn't Waddle play at LT last season? Was it Fleming? I can't remember but do remember that whoever it was did a decent job filling in for Solder.

Question: Do you think Cannon could move to LT and Waddle/Fleming fill in at RT? If so the Solder insurance may be already on the roster.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

you are looking at two of the better back up tackles in the league

it is really a matter of two things:

1. do they still want to be a part time player
2. does another team think they are starter material

waddle has some leg issues and fleming actually plays pretty well when he knows he is starting

many of our fans are clueless when it comes to understanding how crappy other teams’ reserve linemen are.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Didn't Waddle play at LT last season? Was it Fleming? I can't remember but do remember that whoever it was did a decent job filling in for Solder.

Question: Do you think Cannon could move to LT and Waddle/Fleming fill in at RT? If so the Solder insurance may be already on the roster.

yes. waddle is more athletic than fleming

 

[mgteich]

The problem is that Fleming will likely be offered starting pay elsewhere. As was the case when Cannon was the player involved, Belichick may pay Fleming.

Waddle should be relatively inexpensive, precisely BECAUSE he is often injured.

Also, counting on Garcia this year is a really bad idea. Even he gains the 45 pounds, it is no at all clear that he will be able to back where he was before the illness. Even if he is, he will have been out of football in the early formative NFL time.

Perhaps, Garcia could beat out Croston. Perhaps not.

In any case, I want us to have Solder, Waddle and Fleming. If we can't have all three, and we likely will only be able to have two, then we will need to acquire a free agent PLUS draft an OT for the future.

 

[maineman209]

Didn't Waddle play at LT last season? Was it Fleming? I can't remember but do remember that whoever it was did a decent job filling in for Solder.

Question: Do you think Cannon could move to LT and Waddle/Fleming fill in at RT? If so the Solder insurance may be already on the roster.

That was Fleming.

IIRC, they tried Cannon at LT early on in his career for some reason and it, um, didn't go well. Might be different now, though.

 

[Tony2046]

That was Fleming.

IIRC, they tried Cannon at LT early on in his career for some reason and it, um, didn't go well. Might be different now, though.

That's why I asked. Cannon had a bad 2015 season as well but probably more due to injury than technique but he bounced back strong in 2016.

Slightly OT but I'm curious of how they will approach the draft.

Another question for you: (Assume Solder retires) If Vita Vea or an equivalent OT were available for the Patriots first draft pick which one would you take? Personally I'd take Vea but that's because I think he could improve the D much more than an OT would improve the O.

 

[maineman209]

That's why I asked. Cannon had a bad 2015 season as well but probably more due to injury than technique but he bounced back strong in 2016.

Slightly OT but I'm curious of how they will approach the draft.

Another question for you: (Assume Solder retires) If Vita Vea or an equivalent OT were available for the Patriots first draft pick which one would you take? Personally I'd take Vea but that's because I think he could improve the D much more than an OT would improve the O.

Good question.

Although I haven't delved much yet, this doesn't seem like a draft that's very likely to produce a starting caliber LT, no matter how high the Pats pick (considering the picks they actually have). So the Pats might be better off trying to figure out how to get by with who they have at OT, and spending their four top-100 picks on other positions of need.

I'm not saying that Vea (if he falls) or Settle should be one of those picks, since I don't know what the coaches know about Valentine, but a defensive pick is probably more the direction I'd think to go in.

 

[mgteich]

Are you saying that there is no one available when we pick likely to have he potential to be a starter or solid back in 2019?

Going into 2018 with Solder, Fleming, Waddle and Garica is OK (and Croston) However, we'll just need more OT's next year.

Good question.

Although I haven't delved much yet, this doesn't seem like a draft that's very likely to produce a starting caliber LT, no matter how high the Pats pick (considering the picks they actually have). So the Pats might be better off trying to figure out how to get by with who they have at OT, and spending their four top-100 picks on other positions of need.

I'm not saying that Vea (if he falls) or Settle should be one of those picks, since I don't know what the coaches know about Valentine, but a defensive pick is probably more the direction I'd think to go in.

 

[Joey007]

If Solder leaves, what do we think the backup option is?

 

[Tony2046]

Are you saying that there is no one available when we pick likely to have he potential to be a starter or solid back in 2019?

Going into 2018 with Solder, Fleming, Waddle and Garica is OK (and Croston) However, we'll just need more OT's next year.

He was responding to my question and I asked him to assume Solder retired.

 

[Tony2046]

If Solder leaves, what do we think the backup option is?

Right now the roster has 12 Offensive line men not including Solder.




Based on Mainman's posts it looks like keeping Fleming is a priority and would be one of the decent options at LT.

 

[mgteich]

He was responding to my question and I asked him to assume Solder retired.

fair enough

Even if Solder play, I think that we should be looking for a player that can start at LT.
For us, he hopefully wouldn't be needed until 2019. Given where we pick, it seem reason to hope for a potential starter in one of our first two picks.

 

[maineman209]

Are you saying that there is no one available when we pick likely to have he potential to be a starter or solid back in 2019?

I'm not saying that the OT prospects who are likely to still be available when the Pats get their first chance to pick at #31 will have zero potential to be a solid LT starter or backup by 2019. I'm saying that I don't know that there will be such a prospect available at that point. This may be an OT class in which the top two prospects are high quality, but the rest are flawed in one way or another to an increasing degree.

Then, in the course of answering the question that was posed to me ("DT? Or OT anyway, if Solder doesn't re-sign?"), I suggested that I might lean toward spending the first four picks on other areas of need, especially defense, rather than reach with one of those picks for an OT prospect who may be no less flawed than an OT prospect who might still be available in the 4th round. This may be a better approach if the 2019 OT class appears likely to be substantially deeper.

Going into 2018 with Solder, Fleming, Waddle and Garica is OK (and Croston) However, we'll just need more OT's next year.

I agree. IF Solder resigns (presuming it's for another two seasons), Solder (and Cannon), Fleming (and/or) Waddle, plus Croston should be okay for 2018. I'm still not at all certain about Garcia (or, especially, Jelks). In any case, that relatively comfortable situation would give the Pats a second chance in 2019 to acquire Solder's understudy/eventual replacement at LT, if none of Croston, Garica or Jelks develops.

BTW - Good (informed and non-melodramatic) speculative discussion here. Thanks!

 

[mgteich]

Thank you for the explanation. I misunderstood part of the discussion.

BTW, I think that even of everyone is signed, it might be right to draft the OT of the future. That is even more true if only 2 of our OT are re-signed.

I do agree that drafting is based on value. If the value isn't there, then belichick won't an OT. If the need and value are great enough, he might trade up.

I'm not saying that the OT prospects who are likely to still be available when the Pats get their first chance to pick at #31 will have zero potential to be a solid LT starter or backup by 2019. I'm saying that I don't know that there will be such a prospect available at that point. This may be an OT class in which the top two prospects are high quality, but the rest are flawed in one way or another to an increasing degree.

Then, in the course of answering the question that was posed to me ("DT? Or OT anyway, if Solder doesn't re-sign?"), I suggested that I might lean toward spending the first four picks on other areas of need, especially defense, rather than reach with one of those picks for an OT prospect who may be no less flawed than an OT prospect who might still be available in the 4th round. This may be a better approach if the 2019 OT class appears likely to be substantially deeper.



I agree. IF Solder resigns (presuming it's for another two seasons), Solder (and Cannon), Fleming (and/or) Waddle, plus Croston should be okay for 2018. I'm still not at all certain about Garcia (or, especially, Jelks). In any case, that relatively comfortable situation would give the Pats a second chance in 2019 to acquire Solder's understudy/eventual replacement at LT, if none of Croston, Garica or Jelks develops.