The pass rush, still an issue...

[drew4008]

I'm as excited as anybody about drubbing the Fins, but it seems over and over again our biggest problem is getting to the passer. Our sack numbers aren't terrible (tied for 17th in the league), but if you watch any of the strong defenses in the league that evoke fear in the opposing offenses, it's because they can consistently get to the passer. And not just sacks, its continued pressure causing bad decisions.

A good example is contrasting our game against Buffalo to the Jets game versus them. Consistently Fitzpatrick had almost no time... the Jets just kept busting through over and over again. Whereas even if we blitz, we just don't get through, and I don't get it.

Before Henne's awful throws, he had all day to just sit there and kill us. They were driving down the field over and over again. I understand the "bend, don't break" mantra... but it's just scary to watch that opposing offenses aren't scared in the least bit of this defense.

What can we do?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I hear you, but I see a pass rush that is improving week-to-week. Even in the game against Buffalo, Fitzpatrick was making plays with his feet. That happens when the other team is forcing your QB off the spot. Guys, I actually see a defense that's getting better week-to-week. That's enough to make me a little excited about what the defense may look like later in the season.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

Too often on the 3rd and longs we seem to be playing a soft zone and they beat us underneath with it (someone who breaks the film down correct me if I'm wrong.) I was saying last night I'd love to see us start blitzing an ILB up the middle there because we are getting beaten anyway so blitz up the gut and hope to cause a bad/rushed throw.

 

[SVN]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

iam also concerned with our o line. first time they played a good pressure front 4 without blitzes and they didnt do well....with suggs/ngata coming up this could be the thing to watch out for.

 

[RodThePat]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

Pass-rush was an issue all game long. Henne was just flat out locking into targets in the second half, and the secondary adjusted nicely. He was pressured maybe 4 times in the whole game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

Cunningham cracked out a spin move last night. He's working on moves, now he's have to learn how to set them up against NFL caliber tackles. If/when he does that, the pass rush will get a boost.

 

[D-cleater]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I hear you, but I see a pass rush that is improving week-to-week. Even in the game against Buffalo, Fitzpatrick was making plays with his feet. That happens when the other team is forcing your QB off the spot. Guys, I actually see a defense that's getting better week-to-week. That's enough to make me a little excited about what the defense may look like later in the season.

Agreed. Ninko and Cunningham from four or five man rush seemed to be around the QB a lot, just not quite getting the sack. They got some pressure.

I think we also have to keep in mind that BB is using a very vanilla pass rush. These guys have to show that they have mastered reading the play and using the proper technique before BB starts dialing up the blitzes. The defense is improving.

 

[drew4008]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

How come the Jets have such a good pass rush? I mean, look at their front seven (or ~10 that see quite a bit of time at those positions), they aren't THAT great of players. What's wrong with our scheme?

 

[SVN]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

How come the Jets have such a good pass rush? I mean, look at their front seven (or ~10 that see quite a bit of time at those positions), they aren't THAT great of players. What's wrong with our scheme?

they blitz all the time and when picked up they are burnt....like brady in the first half and like manning did. obviously with pace back it will be better.. but ellis is pretty good pass rusher compared to what we have i think

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

How come the Jets have such a good pass rush? I mean, look at their front seven (or ~10 that see quite a bit of time at those positions), they aren't THAT great of players. What's wrong with our scheme?

They're scheme is a lot more aggressive than what the Patriots employ. It's really that simple. In the process, they leave they're secondary in man-to-man more often and they get scorched by good passing teams. If you remember the Patriots game earlier this year, they didn't blitz nearly as much as we all thought they would. They recognized after the second meeting last year that if the O-Line could pick it up, Brady would rip their secondary to shreds.

I don't believe our young secondary has shown they can hold their own in man-to-man and afford Bill the opportunity to blitz on a more consistent basis. So they go to the two-deep and three-deep stuff to keep everything in front of them. Really, this isn't much different than the SB years. It's just that the players were a lot smarter then. Give them some time to learn. They should improve with time.

 

[TheComeback]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

The pass rush is noticeably better than last year. If you can't see it, you need to pay closer attention. That pocket was getting collapsed a lot last night and it's a major reason for why Henne was making so many bad throws. They aren't the Steelers or the Jets, but they're getting better. I don't think the pass rush will be a major concern by the end of the season, as long as we stay healthy.

 

[drew4008]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I guess it just comes down to the difference I see in blitzing. I understand we're less aggressive and blitz less, but when we do come with a heavy blitz, it seems over 50% of the time we're picked up and/or just don't get to the QB. Whereas with teams like the Steelers and Jets, when they blitz hard, they're getting to you almost certainly... and I don't mean getting a sack necessarily, but they're forcing that quick throw, or they're batting it down, or something... they aren't just all getting picked up and laying the secondary out to dry like I see so much with us.

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I'm as excited as anybody about drubbing the Fins, but it seems over and over again our biggest problem is getting to the passer. Our sack numbers aren't terrible (tied for 17th in the league), but if you watch any of the strong defenses in the league that evoke fear in the opposing offenses, it's because they can consistently get to the passer. And not just sacks, its continued pressure causing bad decisions.

A good example is contrasting our game against Buffalo to the Jets game versus them. Consistently Fitzpatrick had almost no time... the Jets just kept busting through over and over again. Whereas even if we blitz, we just don't get through, and I don't get it.

Before Henne's awful throws, he had all day to just sit there and kill us. They were driving down the field over and over again. I understand the "bend, don't break" mantra... but it's just scary to watch that opposing offenses aren't scared in the least bit of this defense.

What can we do?

I'm in agreement. I think it's probably even worse, because when we're that far ahead it's easy to sit back and play prevent as we're not concerned about the run.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I guess it just comes down to the difference I see in blitzing. I understand we're less aggressive and blitz less, but when we do come with a heavy blitz, it seems over 50% of the time we're picked up and/or just don't get to the QB. Whereas with teams like the Steelers and Jets, when they blitz hard, they're getting to you almost certainly... and I don't mean getting a sack necessarily, but they're forcing that quick throw, or they're batting it down, or something... they aren't just all getting picked up and laying the secondary out to dry like I see so much with us.

I hear you, drew. I think what you're noticing is probably a bit deceiving, though. When a team blitzes as often as the Steelers or Jets, they will get to the QB or force a mistake more often.

What's an analogy? Oh, okay. If you go to the club and you try talking to every girl there, then you're bound to walk away with more phone numbers than the guy who only tried talking to two or three and was stonewalled. If you try more often, you're going to get turned down but you're also going to inevitably get a few to give you an opportunity. Does that make sense? I'm still waking up from my slumber.

The Pats don't bring it as much as those teams do, so that makes it really hard to draw a comparison. I do get what you're saying and you make a good point, but I think it's a bit of a percentage game when you compare how much more those teams blitz.

 

[Marqui]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

Cunningham cracked out a spin move last night. He's working on moves, now he's have to learn how to set them up against NFL caliber tackles. If/when he does that, the pass rush will get a boost.

Agreed. Looks to me like it's only a matter of time before Cunningham becomes a serious threat off the edge.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

I don't believe our young secondary has shown they can hold their own in man-to-man and afford Bill the opportunity to blitz on a more consistent basis. So they go to the two-deep and three-deep stuff to keep everything in front of them. Really, this isn't much different than the SB years. It's just that the players were a lot smarter then. Give them some time to learn. They should improve with time.

Bend don't break............ Exactly. Soft zone means, you'll give up an azs ton of yards, you keep it all in front of you and you are "johnny on the spot" when the reception is made to limit the damage. As the field get smaller, the harder those yards come and it forces offenses to force stuff more.

Last night, as compaired to the rest of the year, we did a MUCH better job keeping stuff in front of us, and even more so, getting tighter into zone and capitalizing on Henne's errors.

Sure, they got caugh flat-footed and out-and-out out of postion on a few plays (i.e. both TD's), but oberall. MUCH BETTER. Watch the game again (if you can), outside the heat of battle. It's very noticable. Long way to go, but the snowball is rolling.

 

[SVN]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

i want to know if the first INT by ninkovich was just a bad throw or a well disguised/confusing coverage or just a great play....anyone ?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

i want to know if the first INT by ninkovich was just a bad throw or a well disguised/confusing coverage or just a great play....anyone ?

Terrible throw by a QB under absolutely no pressure:

NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Miami Dolphins - 2010 Week 4

 

[TheComeback]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

i want to know if the first INT by ninkovich was just a bad throw or a well disguised/confusing coverage or just a great play....anyone ?

Combination of a bad throw with really good coverage from Ninko. Peyton or Brees might not decide to go there, but if they had, Ninko was in perfect position against a wideout streaking down the field and he made a great catch on top of it. Nice play by him and a bad play by Henne.

See? It really can go both ways.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: The pass rush, still an issue..

i want to know if the first INT by ninkovich was just a bad throw or a well disguised/confusing coverage or just a great play....anyone ?

From what I saw, it was good coverage but obvious coverage. There was no reason for Henne to throw that ball as Ninko was pretty much in front of Marshall already, and there was zero pressure on him (it may have even been a 3 man rush, can't remember).

The 2nd Ninko Int was a good route jump, but also a throw to the inside of the receiver when it probably should have been more of an out. Great play by Nink though.