Content Post The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[mgteich]

I don’t hate MacDaniels, I hate changing systems, and I hate the E-P offense. If MacDaniels ends up being OC I’ll live with it, but I still hate that f*cking offense.

MacDaniels will adapt and develop an Offense to take advantage of Maye's skill set.

 

[upstater1]

Over the last few weeks BB has repeated that Robert, Jonathan and Robyn Glazer are the decision makers. Vrabel was the best choice simply because he has the attitude to push for what he wants and the credibility to get get his way. The downside is that he may step on too many toes on along the way to stay for a 20 year run.

Yes, but Belichick has an axe to grind against the Krafts. I should think Bruschi is more measured

 

[TinhWoodhead]

I guess so, I just thought Ben would have been great for the Pats, brand new style of football and he possible would have taken Maye to new heights . Anyway, Vrabel it is and it is good that we made the decision early so we have a jump start on other franchises .

I had a dream Ben Johnson was our OC…

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I'm hoping that by hiring him, they understand that they need a guy like him, a passionate, knowledgeable coach who always has the team's best interests at heart. I ain't gonna be around for 20 more years, I'm a geezer already, but I sure hope Mike is. He's exactly who they need, IMHO

Vrabel is certainly going to share his opinion on who he wants to bring in. I like the idea of adding Roman Phifer to the front office. If Wolf stays he would benefit from having someone who has his broad perspective.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Yes, but Belichick has an axe to grind against the Krafts. I should think Bruschi is more measured

That is completely fair. The original list did not include Glazer. She was supposed to be there to help Mayo with running the team. I doubt that Vrabel would be ok with having a mole in his meetings to report back to the Kraft's.

 

[VJCPatriot]

How do you KNOW he will "He will also overhaul our personnel department and bring in people to revamp what has been awful scouting and drafting for nearly a decade now." He WON'T BE the GM.
2nd of all, he's going to be tied up being the Chief of the ENTIRE Operation, which he's NEVER been, do you really believe a 1st time HC will be massively involved in the offense?
I just don't see what other people are seeing, I don't believe he will be Andy Reid/Sean Payton etc..., they LEARNED.
Not in the beginning at least, maybe I'll be wrong, and would be EXTACTIC to admit.
I just don't see it IMHO.

The hire is now officially Mike Vrabel. Ben Johnson will be the new HC of another team. Let’s see who makes the playoffs first. In particular if Ben Johnson wins division titles and Superbowl trophies and we don’t under Vrabel we can look back on this moment as a huge opportunity missed.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

It’s not necessarily because Vrabel is a bad hire. The ceiling is different with these coaches. Ben Johnson is an offensive genius. His Lions team is top 3 elite in scoring and offense yards per game. Vrabel was able to get Titans into the playoffs but no more than that. Who gives you best shot at getting to the Superbowl though?

 

[Love The Drake]

It’s not necessarily because Vrabel is a bad hire. The ceiling is different with these coaches. Ben Johnson is an offensive genius. His Lions team is top 3 elite in scoring and offense yards per game. Vrabel was able to get Titans into the playoffs but no more than that. Who gives you best shot at getting to the Superbowl though?

I love the Vrabel hire but the OC will make or break this.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I love the Vrabel hire but the OC will make or break this.

Agreed. The OC hire is critical. Also I’d like someone different and proven to help make calls on draft choices and roster construction. Wolf’s results so far have not been good to say the least.

 

[Sect140]

The hire is now officially Mike Vrabel. Ben Johnson will be the new HC of another team. Let’s see who makes the playoffs first. In particular if Ben Johnson wins division titles and Superbowl trophies and we don’t under Vrabel we can look back on this moment as a huge opportunity missed.

Or we can be talking about the Pats made the right decision hiring Vrabel and Ben Johnson was another Mike McDaniel

The hire is now officially Mike Vrabel. Ben Johnson will be the new HC of another team. Let’s see who makes the playoffs first. In particular if Ben Johnson wins division titles and Superbowl trophies and we don’t under Vrabel we can look back on this moment as a huge opportunity missed.

Or we could be looking back and saying what a great hire Vrabel was and Ben Johnson was another Mike McDaniel. No one knows.

 

[dliverey44]

Majority of comments I see on other Patriot blogs/social media hate the Vrabel hire and thinks it will go like Mayo,
They overwhelmingly want Ben Johnson.
It’s interesting to me People could think Vrabel is a bad hire.

Thoughts?

I am the opposite; I think Vrabel is an excellent hire and think that BJ would have been a mistake. I am of the opinion that the HC should be able to lead the program and be able to assist where needed, which Vrabel will be able to do that. BJ is an excellent OC but I don't know if he will be able to lead the thing while also calling plays. Some can do both but several have proven they cannot. I did not want the Pats to be BJs experiment.

Something that I think people are missing is that BJ has an absolutely stacked offense in Detroit so it is easy to call up some crazy exotic play when the OL will give Goff time and allow the WRs to get downfield before Goff is crushed. We currently are not that and there is no telling what BJ would do with that. At least with Vrabel we know what kind of program will be installed.

There is a video with Will Compton and Taylor Lewan where they talk about how they hated Vrabel in 2018, but then he one them over with his keys to the game, command of the locker room, knowledge of the rule book and could coach every position and was very detailed.

 

[dliverey44]

Seriously, why can’t you hire a guy over zoom? I mean unless Johnson has to see the facility.

They could have come to an agreement, but can not be an official hire until Johnsons season is over.

 

[dliverey44]

I don’t hate MacDaniels, I hate changing systems, and I hate the E-P offense. If MacDaniels ends up being OC I’ll live with it, but I still hate that f*cking offense.

What do you hate about it?

 

[signbabybrady]

It’s not necessarily because Vrabel is a bad hire. The ceiling is different with these coaches. Ben Johnson is an offensive genius. His Lions team is top 3 elite in scoring and offense yards per game. Vrabel was able to get Titans into the playoffs but no more than that. Who gives you best shot at getting to the Superbowl though?

They've each coached in a conference championship but one did it as a HC the other as a coordinator. If the lions win it all maybe then you have a better case right now Vrabel's ceiling isn't some hypothetical.

 

[The Gr8est]

Now it will be interesting with so many teams scrambling for Ben Johnson, but needing to wait.

It’s great that the Pats got the best HC available and avoided the circus.

 

[mgteich]

The hire is now officially Mike Vrabel. Ben Johnson will be the new HC of another team. Let’s see who makes the playoffs first. In particular if Ben Johnson wins division titles and Superbowl trophies and we don’t under Vrabel we can look back on this moment as a huge opportunity missed.

You will likely never know if Johnson would have chosen the patriots or whether he would have been successful here.

 

[TommyD4207]

I love the Vrabel hire but the OC will make or break this.

I mean, so is the DC too. Vrabel can't spend all his time coaching the defense.

 

[captain stone]

What do you get in person that you can’t get on zoom?

Are you serious? Cmon man, you know better.

First of all, you gave Vrabel an in-person interview. Need to fo the same with Johnson.
Secondly, we already know Johnson can really scheme. Kraft needs to get a better handle with him on establishing his culture. I've hired people before. When it's an extremely important position, you need to get it right.
There's things like body language that don't come across zoom. They need to push his buttons a bit to see how he reacts. Grill him about his DC and other hires. Zoom is very limited.

Yep; I still feel that you need to first shake a man’s hand and be able to look him in the face too; but I’m an old dude so what do I know?

 

[captain stone]

Wolf f'd up this FA pretty good too.

Yep. The only role for which he’s qualified here is as facilities janitor. Al Groh’s kid can hold the dustpan for him while he sweeps.

 

[VJCPatriot]

They've each coached in a conference championship but one did it as a HC the other as a coordinator. If the lions win it all maybe then you have a better case right now Vrabel's ceiling isn't some hypothetical.

In the end this decision will be judged on who produces the results. Who takes their team further. Who wins division titles and Superbowls? It's a result oriented world in the NFL, as it should be.