The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Froob]

Yep it’s Vrabel. I’m ready man. I love Vrabes

 

[Love The Drake]

Could be Vrabel or Johnson.

 

[Love The Drake]

I’m just excited to have a new coach, again I’m only consigning Vrabel if he brings McDaniels and McDaniels agrees to stay long term.
Otherwise I’d push for Johnson.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Could be Vrabel or Johnson.

If they're making an announcement this weekend, it's not Johnson.

 

[PatsFan2]

I’m just excited to have a new coach, again I’m only consigning Vrabel if he brings McDaniels and McDaniels agrees to stay long term.
Otherwise I’d push for Johnson.

Josh will never get a HCing Gig in this League again that ship has sailed... OC for life.

 

[KCSVEN]

Let's end the debate. Analytics time. Bolded years are the Chiefs.

3 out 12 playoff teams in 2019 had a defensive HC. Offense HC won Super Bowl.
5 out 14 playoff teams in 2020 had a defensive HC. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
4 out of 14 playoff teams in 2021 had a defense HC. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
3 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2022. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
4 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2023. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
6 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2023. I gave the benefit of the doubt and I consider Jim Harbaugh more of a defensive HC than offense. Super Bowl winner to be determined.

In the last 5 years, the playoff teams with a defensive minded HC made up only 29% of the total playoff teams. None of them have made the Super Bowl and have only made a title game twice (Tennessee and Buffalo) in the last 5 years. The last 5 Super Bowl winning teams have had an offensive minded coach. The last defensive mind to not only win a title game and Super Bowl, was our boy BB in 2018.

It would be a massive mistake going with Vrabel.

I don't think that's the right question It's Head Coaches that calls plays.
2024: 7 of the 8 AFC playoff teams have an OC that calls plays. 5 of 8 in NFC including top 3 seeds

Who won the Super Bowl is crazy misleading because it's been Chiefs, Rams, Tampa and Tampa gave up 9 points in the SB. Basically been Brady, Stafford, Mahomes which proves it is the QB.

A "massive mistake to go with Vrabel" is a ridiculous statement. 12 out of 16 playoff teams have an OC calling plays.

Top 3 draft picks, worst records in the league: Browns, Titans and Giants-ALL OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES. Apparently, it'd be a massive mistake to hire Ben Johnson.
A Head Coach that calls plays has a slight advantage in the long run because the play caller doesn't leave. If you have an OC that calls plays, you may have to continue to replace them if They do well. That's the only advantage.

The idea you have to have an offensive minded head coach to win is not accurate at all.

The difference is minimal

• Win rate
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their games, while defensive-minded coaches have won 48%.
  
  
• Playoffs
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their postseason games, compared to 49% for defensive-minded coaches.

 

[KCSVEN]

If they're making an announcement this weekend, it's not Johnson.

A decision and an announcement are 2 different things. They can decide and agree with Johnson and as long as he doesn't pull a McDaniel's to the Colts you can still announce when season ends but can still have a decision made this weekend.

 

[Love The Drake]

Josh will never get a HCing Gig in this League again that ship has sailed... OC for life.

If he comes here I hope you’re right.
I don’t know it Vrabel over Johnson is the right choice but he is a lot more qualified than Mayo. I love Vrabel but I also love that lions offense:

A decision and an announcement are 2 different things. They can decide and agree with Johnson and as long as he doesn't pull a McDaniel's to the Colts you can still announce when season ends but can still have a decision made this weekend.

100 percent.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don't think that's the right question It's Head Coaches that calls plays.
2024: 7 of the 8 AFC playoff teams have an OC that calls plays. 5 of 8 in NFC including top 3 seeds

Who won the Super Bowl is crazy misleading because it's been Chiefs, Rams, Tampa and Tampa gave up 9 points in the SB. Basically been Brady, Stafford, Mahomes which proves it is the QB.

A "massive mistake to go with Vrabel" is a ridiculous statement. 12 out of 16 playoff teams have an OC calling plays.

Top 3 draft picks, worst records in the league: Browns, Titans and Giants-ALL OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES. Apparently, it'd be a massive mistake to hire Ben Johnson.
A Head Coach that calls plays has a slight advantage in the long run because the play caller doesn't leave. If you have an OC that calls plays, you may have to continue to replace them if They do well. That's the only advantage.

The idea you have to have an offensive minded head coach to win is not accurate at all.

The difference is minimal

• Win rate
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their games, while defensive-minded coaches have won 48%.
  
  
• Playoffs
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their postseason games, compared to 49% for defensive-minded coaches.

It doesn't matter where the HC started their career, winning teams need balance on both sides of the ball. The Chiefs were a bit hit and miss before Spagnuolo joined to solidify the defense. They would have beaten the Pats in 2018 with a better defense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think that's the right question It's Head Coaches that calls plays.
2024: 7 of the 8 AFC playoff teams have an OC that calls plays. 5 of 8 in NFC including top 3 seeds

Who won the Super Bowl is crazy misleading because it's been Chiefs, Rams, Tampa and Tampa gave up 9 points in the SB. Basically been Brady, Stafford, Mahomes which proves it is the QB.

A "massive mistake to go with Vrabel" is a ridiculous statement. 12 out of 16 playoff teams have an OC calling plays.

Top 3 draft picks, worst records in the league: Browns, Titans and Giants-ALL OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES. Apparently, it'd be a massive mistake to hire Ben Johnson.
A Head Coach that calls plays has a slight advantage in the long run because the play caller doesn't leave. If you have an OC that calls plays, you may have to continue to replace them if They do well. That's the only advantage.

The idea you have to have an offensive minded head coach to win is not accurate at all.

The difference is minimal

• Win rate
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their games, while defensive-minded coaches have won 48%.
  
  
• Playoffs
  Since 2002, offensive-minded coaches have won 51% of their postseason games, compared to 49% for defensive-minded coaches.

The real question is who had the better QB.

 

[Family]

Let's end the debate. Analytics time. Bolded years are the Chiefs.

3 out 12 playoff teams in 2019 had a defensive HC. Offense HC won Super Bowl.
5 out 14 playoff teams in 2020 had a defensive HC. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
4 out of 14 playoff teams in 2021 had a defense HC. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
3 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2022. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
4 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2023. Offensive HC won Super Bowl.
6 out of 14 playoff teams had a defense HC in 2023. I gave the benefit of the doubt and I consider Jim Harbaugh more of a defensive HC than offense. Super Bowl winner to be determined.

In the last 5 years, the playoff teams with a defensive minded HC made up only 29% of the total playoff teams. None of them have made the Super Bowl and have only made a title game twice (Tennessee and Buffalo) in the last 5 years. The last 5 Super Bowl winning teams have had an offensive minded coach. The last defensive mind to not only win a title game and Super Bowl, was our boy BB in 2018.

It would be a massive mistake going with Vrabel.

This is such a misleading post it’s laughable. You forget to mention the offensive coaches that basically wins every year has the best player. Mahomes, Brady, mahomes, mahomes.

just about Every great coach that wins has the best qb. Whether it’s defensive coach or offensive. Get out of here with your nonsense.

Your gif at the end is laughable. You’re not as clever as you think

I agree that he's not as clever as he thinks, but there is a possibility that having the head coach watching over the offense offers an edge to winning. It's likely not the end all, but it's a point based on recent history.

How about the success of second time coaches VS first which I think accounts for more Super Bowl wins than what side of the ball they came from in recent history?

Would it be a mistake to hire a first time coach like Ben Johnson?

No gif needed..................

 

[Toofy]

I agree that he's not as clever as he thinks, but there is a possibility that having the head coach watching over the offense offers an edge to winning. It's likely not the end all, but it's a point based on recent history.

How about the success of second time coaches VS first which I think accounts for more Super Bowl wins than what side of the ball they came from in recent history?

Would it be a mistake to hire a first time coach like Ben Johnson?

No gif needed..................

Thats not a good enough reason. I wouldn't count Johnson out to be honest. He has heard the Vrabel BS around the Boston and national media and yet he is still making the interview.

That says something to me. I'd be happy with either but Johnson is very much not a concern like Mayo was. He has been groomed for this and is an incredibly bright mind. He might be the next McVay to be honest.

Outside of bill and Reid who both had/have HoF QB, the others who won Superbowl last 20 years

Tom Coughlin - 2
Mike Tomlin - 1
Sean McVay- 1
McCarthy - 1
Sean Payton - 1
Doug Pederson - 1
Bruce Arians - 1
Pete Carroll - 1

4 to 5 defense against offense . No overbearing stats that show any preference. Common requirement is stud QB r

 

[Water Boy]

I only have one and still haven't found my fingers

They're usually on the end of your hand.

 

[upstater1]

I don't understand the Boston Media's obsession with how wide or narrow the search is.

First, the Krafts would not be able to understand the nuances of what everyone really brings to the table when it comes to coaching. If they did, we wouldn't be in this mess. Second, they need football people to make those assessments, and those people either aren't in the organization or else they want to hold onto their current jobs, which devalues their ability to assess anything.

So why is the media focused on this "narrowness" thing?

 

[archstanton543]

I don't understand the Boston Media's obsession with how wide or narrow the search is.

They just want to ***** about how the Pats aren't serious about Rooney Rule interviews.

 

[upstater1]

I play a Godin 5th Avenue, Ibanez jazz boxes and a PRS Hollowbody mostly these days, and I have an old MIJ strat with an ash body and a maple board that I love. That combo, along with pretty underwound pickups, gives it beautiful sparkle and the "quack settings" have a kind of sizzle. Unfortunately the frets on the old MIJ frets are very thin and soft and have worn down badly, and the neck is very narrow with a 7 1/4" radius, which is a little limiting. It'll go off the the luthier for a fret job which - I know my guy - will take him forever, bless his heart. So I am thinking of getting a PRS Silver Sky with the maple board, but they are pretty weird-looking guitars, especially with a maple board (I know: shouldn;t matter) so I am looking a spending maybe $1500-$2000 on an a legit Strat, but there are like 50 different flavors (no "American Standard"?) and I can't figure out which to get which would replicate my MIJ. Maybe a Professional II?

First-world problems, eh?

I've been in bands since I was a teenager, and as late as in my 40s when playing in jazz funk bands.

I had 5 different guitars that each had their own use, from a Les Paul Custom to a Jazzmaster, an SG and a Tele. Solid it all in recent years except for one guitar, an Epiphone Elitist LP made in Japan. It had the same long tenon as the Customs, but sounded better, I souped it up with electronics and PUs, and everyone who played it agreed the neck and body blew away my Gibson Custom LP.

This is the guitar I kept.

Recently got rid of my last 2 big amps. I still have a teeny Fender 600 Champ and I bought the Universal Audio Deluxe Reverb pedal and am astounded how good it sounds going through studio monitors. It truly is a new era now for guitar equipment.

Sold my collection of new old stock tubes for 5x more than I paid for them. I bought them all new from a place in California in the 1990s and hardly ever used them. My oldest is headed to college next year... am very happy I made a big dent into that first year's tuition.

 

[Kdo5]

Please let’s start with fresh meat. Grab someone with zero ties to the organization. Grab a high functioning offensive mind to restore this pathetic offense and develop our rookie QB. Big bad Vrabel will do nothing but install discipline, he’ll get annihilated by the X’s and O’s and our offense will suffer

Ben Johnson all the way!

There are plenty of unknowns when it comes to Johnson but what I do know is that he can catapult the worst offense in the NFL over the past five seasons into one of the best.

That is enough for me to want to hire him. I believe things absolutely get better on both ends under Vrabel but Johnson can unlock Maye’s potential and I think also tap into some of our skill players who have otherwise been disappointments or produced like JAGs or busts while improving those positions with FA and hopefully the draft.

 

[upstater1]

They just want to ***** about how the Pats aren't serious about Rooney Rule interviews.

I don't think it's only that, though it's part of it.

I actually believe the Patriots blew that. They could have easily invited a couple active coaches to tick off those boxes even if they never intended to hire them. The screwed that part up.

But, they are being blasted for not getting "new ideas." This is the same crew of people who praised them in the recent past for a friendlier culture. I think Breer in particular is out to lunch. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about without realizing that the process of hiring a new coach for the Patriots entails exactly the kind of organizational changes they are recommending.

 

[upstater1]

There are plenty of unknowns when it comes to Johnson but what I do know is that he can catapult the worst offense in the NFL over the past five seasons into one of the best.

That is enough for me to want to hire him. I believe things absolutely get better on both ends under Vrabel but Johnson can unlock Maye’s potential and I think also tap into some of our skill players who have otherwise been disappointments or produced like JAGs or busts while improving those positions with FA and hopefully the draft.

We don't have those skills players on the team right now.

They don't exist.

J. Polk could not separate in college. It was not a matter of misuse. He is not fast. Has separation issues. Is easy to lock down. Looks good in college when he's the 3rd WR going against the oppositions nickel back. Not an NFL WR.

 

[Ross12]

A decision and an announcement are 2 different things. They can decide and agree with Johnson and as long as he doesn't pull a McDaniel's to the Colts you can still announce when season ends but can still have a decision made this weekend.

Technically true, although think about how that would look long term…

They would “come to a decision” but would be forbidden from saying what it is. But meanwhile Vrabel would not be hired, and would instead start doing interviews with other teams and would probably be hired quickly by the Bears, Raiders or Jaguars. So that would leave the Pats sitting on their hands for weeks with their only other interviewed candidates available being BJ plus Hamilton and Leftwich... It would be so painfully obvious.

It could happen for sure but it would just be silly looking. Although I guess that’s more of a league problem.