The Official Pats at Ravens Post Game Thread

[ausbacker]

Yep. Putting up 30 points, 33 first downs (and 7-15 on 3rd downs, 46.7%), 396 yards, and 31:03 TOP against this Ravens defense means you have a really good offense.

I'm not worried about the offense moving forward.

I still would like to see them bury teams at the end, though. That's getting pretty frustrating.

It's no different to most of the Patriots' losses since 2006. The offense has put itself in a winning position, had the chance to close out games, failed and then watched the defense capitulate in critical situations losing the game.

It's a team effort. Both units are failing where victory presents.

 

[FalconHeavy]

this team appears to be snake bitten in recent years, not able to get a first down when it really matters and handing over the ball to oppoents. sigh, we can't blame D for not holding them if the "footlocker" iditots keep giving the ball to ravens !

anyway offense needs to get those crucial first downs when it really needed !

 

[DropKickFlutie]

It's no different to most of the Patriots' losses since 2006. The offense has put itself in a winning position, had the chance to close out games, failed and then watched the defense capitulate in critical situations losing the game.

It's a team effort. Both units are failing where victory presents.

A few weeks ago I watched every heartbreaking loss over the decade, and I don't know if there was a pattern but it was interesting. Even in 2001, 2003, 2004 the defense still gave up huge plays and late TD scores in the 4th quarter, but the offense always ran on 1st and 2nd down in those 4th quarters which killed clock and gave the defense an extra minute or two of rest. After 2006 including last year's Superbowl, the offense passed (and failed) on 2nd down in the 4th quarter (sometimes even 1st down), then gave the ball back much quicker after quick 3 and outs. This is early in the 4th quarter with plenty of time left, with a lead. Instead of going to ball control these recent teams tried to pass, failed, then gave the ball back quick instead of killing time.

 

[State]

Woodhead over Ridley? Are you kidding me?

Mankins was violent, generally putting a hurt on Ray Lewis.

Our CBs are not going to cut it. They are the weak link. Put in Moore and Dowling. Shake things up. I hoping Dennard can come into form at some point this season. Unlike McCourtey, he's aggressive and is a legit ball hawk. McCourtney has limited ball hawking skills. Although athletic, maybe he should have been kept at safety. But with that egregious flag football tackle on Pitta--and that's a lack of desire--I don't think he should be there, either.

The two plays that sealed our doom: 1) Brady taking that horrible sack. Where was an outlet receiver for when the Ravens sent a max blitz? 2) I don't mind Arrington. He's better than McCourtney. But his dropping of that popup pass because he tripped on some blades of grass shows that in crunch time he can't be depended on. That dropped INT was huge--bigger than the two McCourtney let through his hands.

That Purdue end got ZERO pressure on Flacco. Why is he starting? Didn't Cunningham make big improvement this TC? Didn't we bring in decent FA's? Ninkovich is the weak link in the front seven.

MICHAEL OHER v CHANDLER JONES. Oher proved he's now an elite LT. Jones was working his tail off. Oher was just too good, too strong. I think Jones will get better and stronger. That was a big match we lost.

Where's our deep threat? Can we try Branch? Lloyd looks more of an intermediate guy.

Connolly and Vollmer are better than #68 and Cannon.

Aside from Jones, no one is showing an aptitude for getting after the QB. We need an interior rush against a guy like Flacco. And we're not getting it.

The Ravens Oline won the game when they began winning at the line of scrimmage. Kyle Love and Ron Brace are slightly below average d linemen in this league.

 

[ensoul]

You can always point to one play or another. Pats lost almost all their games the same way:

A) Offense gets the ball when they are behind. They get the go ahead FG or TD get a by 2 points or or 6 points.

Defense lets the other team march up the field and either get a FG or TD to win the game.

B) Offense is ahead by either 2 points or 6 points. Pat need one more first down to win the game and they end up failing and punting the ball.

Defense lets the other team march up the field and either get a FG or TD to win the game.

This was the first test for this defense and they failed. They gave up 500 yards. They could not stop Rice. Flacco dropped back 40 times, was not sacked once and he had no pressure on him the whole game. He had a 71% completion rate, threw for 382 yards and his average yards for pass was almost 10 yards.

They may beat the bills and could even have a decent season but like every other year once they play a good QB in the playoffs the defense will ultimately let the other team march up the field and score.

 

[zeroakuma]

Rob Ninkovich is 6'2 and Cunningham is 6'3. Bring Ninkovich off the bench as one of the linebackers in pass defensive schemes and start Cunningham as your defensive end next to Jones.

Until Jake Bequette can play, you need someone else other than Rob to generate some sort of pass rush. Ninkovich rushes with a quick burst, but is too weak and it appears that his reach is lacking.

Incorporate more passing plays! That's what led you to multiple Superbowl appearances!

Our defensive backs, replacement officials, and the offensive scheme sucks. Why the hell are we targeting Edelman more than any other receivers? It looks like he's out with a hand injury...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Flacco dropped back 40 times, was not sacked once and he had no pressure on him the whole game. He had a 71% completion rate, threw for 382 yards and his average yards for pass was almost 10 yards.

Being able to get away with holding does wonders for QB pressure.

So do phantom calls that wipe away sacks.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

it is but not if it goes over the upright

This pleads and pleads out loud to me: why don't we just chip the balls - chip the field goal posts and just let the refs pick their noses during FG's.

Whatever difficulty may lie in goal line technology is not there for the fg's. This could be implemented in a clear and effective way.

Some aspects, but not others of a fg being reviewable =

 

[condon84]

I'm just gonna drop this here.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Alot can be said and I'm sure has been said. It's obviously still very early so I'm going to hope alot of the issues are addressed as the season goes.

I'll just say the thing that concerns me is both the offense and defense inability to close out big games. Last year they couldn't do it against the Ravens on either side though they were given the chance, luckily the Ravens shanked a very short FG, bailing us out after drove down the field with EASE. We couldn't do it against the Giants, drive stalled after Welker's drop right before NY marched right down the field to win it. And once again last night, after our 4th down stop the offense had 2 chances to seal it but couldn't maintain drives.

And obviously on defense, how many actually had faith they'd keep Bmore from moving right down the field? I have zero faith in that secondary in that situation, that was WAY too easy and reminiscent of Eli on the SB's last drive. Just seems that in the clutch this team cannot get it done anymore. The DB's we have especially inspire no confidence in being able to make that stop in the closing minutes.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Has anyone got a video of this play that they can post here for me, and others, to look at closely?

Ravens 3rd and 9 at the Pats 34. 52 seconds left in the 4th quarter.

Flacco pass, deep left intended for J Jones INCOMPLETE. (Penalty on McCourty, Pass Interference. 27 yards , ball spotted at the NE 7 yard line, 1st and goal for Baltimore)


Does anyone have a video of that play????

I would really like to see this play to look at in slow and stop motion.

Of all the horrible calls in the game, this one, and the time of the game that it was called really infuriated me. Maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't PI. (I am not sure, but in either case it certainly was no where near flagrant enough to call it at that time of the game and the score what it was.) It smells to high heaven.

I seriously doubt that if the same play occured 100 times, that on at least 95 of them it would never have been called, maybe 99.

Teams win or lose games based on how they play but in this instance, I can honestly say that it was taken from the Pats by the on field officials.

Sorry, gotta disagree with you entirely here. McCourty missed his jam at the LOS and spent the rest of the play running to catch up, followed by classic "got beat down field - must make up for it" pass interference. 95% of the time it should be called.

About 3:20 point of this video: NFL Videos: GameDay: Patriots vs. Ravens highlights

 

[ensoul]

Being able to get away with holding does wonders for QB pressure.

So do phantom calls that wipe away sacks.

And the raves had some questionable calls against them as well. Holding calls or not there was only one sack that was taken back. At the end of the day Flacko had all day to throw the ball killed the pats secondary.

This team has a bunch of question marks. Now that I think about it the next four games are no cakewalk. Next week in no automatic win, Broncos are not playing well but with this secondary Manning may have a field day, playing in Seattle is going to be a tough game as well then the pats play the jets. Not out of the realm of possibility this team goes 1-3 or 2-2 and has a 2-5 or 3-5 record when they play in London.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

I'm just gonna drop this here.

That was all night. No wonder CJones was quiet. On T. Smith's 2nd TD catch, Kyle Love made a beeline to the ref to petition for some kind of call.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Sorry, gotta disagree with you entirely here. McCourty missed his jam at the LOS and spent the rest of the play running to catch up, followed by classic "got beat down field - must make up for it" pass interference. 95% of the time it should be called.

About 3:20 point of this video: NFL Videos: GameDay: Patriots vs. Ravens highlights

In hindsight McCourty should have just let him score.

 

[jnug]

The problem with this team is that it goes into an offensive shell at the end of games playing not to lose instead of playing to win...a bad idea in a league that has made massive rules changes favoring the offense. When you have the ball and the game is yours to win or lose, you have to put the game away. That is the first problem which is linked to the second.

Late in the game, while BB's defensive schemes still puts players in positions to make big plays he no longer has playmakers in his secondary. BB has no playmakers in this secondary. He does not even have guys that can stay upright trying to make fairly straightforward Ints. in the secondary.

There is just so much a defensive scheme or system can do particularly in the contemporary NFL. If the player is put in a position to make a simple play and does not make it time and time again....that tells you what you need to do.

 

[Kontradiction]

But your argument sucks. There is no "instead of" if the right call is made, and that's the point.

And your stance would make more sense to me if the Ravens weren't hosed by the same inept zebras either. Look at the stats of this game, Deus...

Patriots: 396 yards of total offense, 78 rushing/0 turnovers/31:03 TOP/83 penalty yards.

Ravens: 503 yards of total offense, 121 rushing/1 turnover/28:57 TOP/135 penalty yards.

So since your natural reaction would probably be to try to slam me for using stats without context, I'll admit that a decent amount of yardage penalized to the Ravens was accurate due to them being hotheads. However, you'd also have to consider an event like Logan Mankins coming in VERY late on a block against the Ravens and then the player shoving him in the face for it getting assessed the 15 yard penalty as well.

The refs were bad, but they were bad on both sides. Instead, look at a defense that couldn't get off the field and could only force Flacco into eleven incompletions, mostly in the first half. Also look at a defense that allowed over 100 yards on the ground and an offense that couldn't seal the game when put in position to do so and gifted several penalties on the same drive themselves. The refs were horrible. They have been since the preseason. It doesn't change the fact that the team that executed better won the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm just gonna drop this here.

You should have captured it with Chandler Jones. It was ten times worse.

 

[Deus Irae]

And your stance would make more sense to me if the Ravens weren't hosed by the same inept zebras either. Look at the stats of this game, Deus...

Patriots: 396 yards of total offense, 78 rushing/0 turnovers/31:03 TOP/83 penalty yards.

Ravens: 503 yards of total offense, 121 rushing/1 turnover/28:57 TOP/135 penalty yards.

So since your natural reaction would probably be to try to slam me for using stats without context, I'll admit that a decent amount of yardage penalized to the Ravens was accurate due to them being hotheads. However, you'd also have to consider an event like Logan Mankins coming in VERY late on a block against the Ravens and then the player shoving him in the face for it getting assessed the 15 yard penalty as well.

The refs were bad, but they were bad on both sides. Instead, look at a defense that couldn't get off the field and could only force Flacco into eleven incompletions, mostly in the first half. Also look at a defense that allowed over 100 yards on the ground and an offense that couldn't seal the game when put in position to do so and gifted several penalties on the same drive themselves. The refs were horrible. They have been since the preseason. It doesn't change the fact that the team that executed better won the game.

That's the sort of relativism that's just useless in cases like this. Mankins not getting a foul that normally wouldn't get anyway is not the same as Mayo getting called for a clearly wrong call on 3rd down. The blown call on Edelman in the endzone, alone, cost the Patriots 4 points or, at the least, a chance with a new first down. That's the difference in the game right there, and that's not even looking to the rest of the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

That's the sort of relativism that's just useless in cases like this. Mankins not getting a foul that normally wouldn't get anyway is not the same as Mayo getting called for a clearly wrong call on 3rd down. The blown call on Edelman in the endzone, alone, cost the Patriots 4 points or, at the least, a chance with a new first down. That's the difference in the game right there, and that's not even looking to the rest of the game.

Offensive lineman normally wouldn't get a late hit or unnecessary roughness? Either way, you're making the mistake of assuming that I'm excusing the referees. I'm not. If you've paid attention to my posts, you'd know that I've been dumping on them from jump street. However, it doesn't change the fact that the team that executed better down the stretch won the game. That's a fact that's simply undeniable. The Patriots could have overcome the bad calls. They've done it before. Instead, the offense stalled on their last possession and the defense couldn't overcome the phantom McCourty penalty and still let Baltimore drive down the field. As I noted in the other thread, Wilfork echoed my sentiments after the game while still noting the officials.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Sorry, gotta disagree with you entirely here. McCourty missed his jam at the LOS and spent the rest of the play running to catch up, followed by classic "got beat down field - must make up for it" pass interference. 95% of the time it should be called.

About 3:20 point of this video: NFL Videos: GameDay: Patriots vs. Ravens highlights

Exactly. This was a point Troy was making last night. They had brought the safety down into the box and played safety high. If you don't get the jam at the line, it puts too much stress on the safety as well. The safety has to make a decision on which way to break (who to help). If you miss a jam, the receiver is down field too fast and the safety can't make his reads before he's forced to make a break. The problem is that he's got too much ground to cover when down field is threatened that quickly.

He missed the jam, and played catch up down field without a safety over the top. You can see the safety breaking in late because that jam was missed by McCourty and the safety had to play center field until he knew where the ball was going. Same thing was happening on the other side by Arrington. You have to get a jam when you're playing safety high or it doesn't work. The receivers are downfield too quickly.