The Official Patriots vs Eagles Pre-Season Game Thread

[Demosthenes]

What troubles me most about Tebow is that this has been consistently said of him since high school. He stayed an extra year in college to work on his footwork and mechanics. He was drummed out of Denver because of his footwork and mechanics. He was dumped by Jersey because of his footwork and mechanics.

Yes, there is improvement, but nowhere near what you'd expect to see based on the incredible amount of coaching/teaching attention he's received, at the highest levels by the most motivated possible staffs, for YEARS. Seriously, has any player ever had more and better people try so hard to fix his fundamentals?

Being "new to the offense" is no excuse for throwing off your back foot. For whatever reason, he just can't fix this stuff. (And if he's "developmental," in his 4th year with 14 NFL starts under his belt, then Mallett is a newborn babe.)

Ummm, no, Tebow didn't stay in college for an extra year to work on his footwork and mechanics. They made NO changes in either from his Junior to Senior year.

The changes to his mechanics started after his Senior season, while preparing for Florida's Pro Day.

He's worked on his mechanics in each offseason since coming to the NFL, but this past year, Chris Weinkie worked with him intensively on his footwork for the first time.

he was dumped by the Jets because they completely mishandled the entire thing and were on the hook for $8+ million to Mark Sanchez.

 

[Clonamery]

Ummm, no, Tebow didn't stay in college for an extra year to work on his footwork and mechanics. They made NO changes in either from his Junior to Senior year.

The changes to his mechanics started after his Senior season, while preparing for Florida's Pro Day.

He's worked on his mechanics in each offseason since coming to the NFL, but this past year, Chris Weinkie worked with him intensively on his footwork for the first time.

he was dumped by the Jets because they completely mishandled the entire thing and were on the hook for $8+ million to Mark Sanchez.

Ah, well then perhaps Tim has no part in his own failures. Thank you for showing us all how to be a proper apologist.

 

[Demosthenes]

Re: Re: The Official Patriots vs Eagles Pre-Season Game Thread

Ah, well then perhaps Tim has no part in his own failures. Thank you for showing us all how to be a proper apologist.

Didn't say that. Rather, I'm not willing to judge someone a failure in this system after 9 practices and 1 preseason game.

 

[belichick010405]

"Tebow talked to several NFL coaches about his pro prospects - he said feedback was mixed" - but nothing they told him really swayed his decision. He knew he wanted to stay in Gainesville, and told coach Urban Meyer on Saturday.

Does anyone wonder what the mixed feedback was?

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/colleges/articles/2009/01/11/20090111spt-tebow.html#ixzz2baN2l57j

 

[Clonamery]

Didn't say that. Rather, I'm not willing to judge someone a failure in this system after 9 practices and 1 preseason game.

I doubt you ever will.

 

[belichick010405]

Didn't say that. Rather, I'm not willing to judge someone a failure in this system after 9 practices and 1 preseason game.

Demos - it was well chronicled that Tebow stayed because after his junior year, the pre-draft evaluation indicated that he still had to work on his throwing mechanics. This is not a 2013 issue.

This has been an issue with him going back to 2008 and 2009. I don't know why everyone realizes this but there was a reason why he didn't enter the draft following his junior year and to deny this - is clearly nothing more than rose-colored glasses homerism which is ironic considering Deus Irae's comment about "anti-Tebow" zealots.

This has been an issue for him for as long as he was the starter at U of F.

Sources:

Florida Gators quarterback Tim Tebow working on smoother, quicker passing motion - Orlando Sentinel

Charles Davis says Florida tried to change Tebow's mechanics | ProFootballTalk

Tim Tebow works on throwing motion for Florida Gators - ESPN

 

[TB12_laser designator]

I was kind of dispirited by Ridley's run. He had daylight, should have taken it to the house, but didn't have the top-end speed like the elite backs do. That run alone told me where he stands among backs in this league.

And by that I mean, he's great for this offense. But he isn't a burner and doesn't have that potential. He would have roasted the D if he had it.

For Christ’s sake what more do you want? The guy ran 62 yards. Man, you're a demanding task master aren't you. Now if you actually look at the run again, you will see he should have kept on the diagonal run to the corner. And if he did, then Fletcher would have got nowhere near him. Dobson was also there to make the block for him.

But instead he started to cut across the field instead of holding the direct straight line run. This change allowed Fletcher to catch him and not a lack of speed imo. It was probably more to do with a bit of hesitation than anything else. Anyway, I'm not bothered it was a damn fine run. And I think we are developing one of the best core of talented young RB's in the league.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yeah Mallett is average at best. Hell Barkley looks better and he's a rookie. It's kinda why I started the Mallett thread, I really don't think he's ever gonna be a good NFL QB. Haven't heard about him having ONE above average practice this training camp, and it's his third season. I was comfortable with Hoyer in HIS rookie season. Just not a good QB. He is what he is, an average backup QB. I remember Foles looked 10x better than him during last years preseason game, and Foles was a rookie. We are ****ed if anything god forbid happens to TB.

You hope to see SOME progression from you backup QB, yet Mallet's best game was his first as a rookie in his first preseason game.

I respectfully and thoroughly disagree. He may not be Brady, no one else is either; but I am convinced he could do a Matt Cassell with this team if he had to do so, even this early in his development. If he were playing regularly, he would be in the upper half of starting QBs in the league.

What were you watching? In less than a quarter he led the team on three scoring drives, even with a Eagles pass rusher constantly in his face over RG. Brady had Svitek; he had RJ Mattes and Lemonter attempting to play RG.

 

[Demosthenes]

I doubt you ever will.

If BB and Josh cut him, then I'll know, because I believe that they gave him a legit shot and an straightforward, and honest evaluation.

 

[Demosthenes]

Demos - it was well chronicled that Tebow stayed because after his junior year, the pre-draft evaluation indicated that he still had to work on his throwing mechanics. This is not a 2013 issue.

This has been an issue with him going back to 2008 and 2009. I don't know why everyone realizes this but there was a reason why he didn't enter the draft following his junior year and to deny this - is clearly nothing more than rose-colored glasses homerism which is ironic considering Deus Irae's comment about "anti-Tebow" zealots.

This damn post is a great example of being an "anti-Tebow zealot". Just two posts prior, YOU posted a link to an article at AZCentral on the issue. I have to presume that you read the article. Let's look at what it actually says.

In 2007, Tebow became the first sophomore to win the Heisman Trophy. In the Gators' 24-14 win over Oklahoma on Thursday night, Tebow completed 18 of 30 passes for 231 yards and two touchdowns. He also ran for 109 yards.

"Overall, I just felt loyal to this place," Tebow said after the celebration. "I feel like I'm a role model and a lot of times people start things and don't finish them. I didn't want to be like that. I wanted to be loyal to the university. I wanted to finish what I started and play another year."
Tebow talked to several NFL coaches about his pro prospects - he said feedback was mixed - but nothing they told him really swayed his decision. He knew he wanted to stay in Gainesville, and told coach Urban Meyer on Saturday.

"Some of that stuff is tempting at the next level and everything that goes along with it, especially ending on a great note and ending up with a national championship and moving on from there," Tebow said. "But I love these guys and coach Meyer and this program too much. I feel we can still end on a bang next year."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/col...11spt-tebow.html?nclick_check=1#ixzz2bbfFVvZa

The article spells out why Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior season. But hey, you didn't let that stop you from spouting off with your claim.

Now, let's look at something said in one of the articles that you just linked to. From the Orlando Sentinel:

Tebow has made it clear he returned for a senior season to win another championship, not to bolster his NFL stock. But the offseason hiring of the NFL-bred Loeffler, also a former Detroit Lions quarterbacks coach, and the implementation of pro-style, under-center sets in the spread offense are nods from the team that helping his future is important

That directly contradicts your BS claim. A claim that you knew to be false to begin with based on the previous article that you linked to.

 

[belichick010405]

This damn post is a great example of being an "anti-Tebow zealot". Just two posts prior, YOU posted a link to an article at AZCentral on the issue. I have to presume that you read the article. Let's look at what it actually says.



The article spells out why Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior season. But hey, you didn't let that stop you from spouting off with your claim.

Now, let's look at something said in one of the articles that you just linked to. From the Orlando Sentinel:



That directly contradicts your BS claim. A claim that you knew to be false to begin with based on the previous article that you linked to.

Demos - You need to take a chill pill. The reporter at this Arizona newspaper also was able to get it on the record that Tebow confirmed to him that he had an evaluation and that evaluation was mixed going back five years.

Yes, Tebow is going to say that there were other reasons why he stayed at UofF for PR purposes and for true love of his college purposes.

With that said - why do you think he had a pre-draft evaluation completed following his junior year? I will give you a hint.

That is standard SOP for all collegiate juniors in football so that they can get an assessment from coaches who would consider him a draft prospect. That assessment of his skill level and his weaknesses continue to today.

You are in denial. Deal with it.

"Tebow talked to several NFL coaches about his pro prospects - he said feedback was mixed - but nothing they told him really swayed his decision."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/col...11spt-tebow.html?nclick_check=1#ixzz2bbyTgoDw

 

[Demosthenes]

Demos - You need to take a chill pill. The reporter at this Arizona newspaper also was able to get it on the record that Tebow confirmed to him that he had an evaluation and that evaluation was mixed going back five years.

Yes, Tebow is going to say that there were other reasons why he stayed at UofF for PR purposes and for true love of his college purposes.

With that said - why do you think he had a pre-draft evaluation completed following his junior year? I will give you a hint.

That is standard SOP for all collegiate juniors in football so that they can get an assessment from coaches who would consider him a draft prospect. That assessment of his skill level and his weaknesses continue to today.

You are in denial. Deal with it.

"Tebow talked to several NFL coaches about his pro prospects - he said feedback was mixed - but nothing they told him really swayed his decision."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/col...11spt-tebow.html?nclick_check=1#ixzz2bbyTgoDw

Wrong. You PRESUME that he returned to Florida because he wanted to fix his mechanics. In the process, you ignored ANY and ALL evidence to the contrary. Evidence that readily demonstrates that your statement was false.

Tell us, did Barkley return to USC his senior season to fix his mechanics ? He was viewed as the #2 pick behind Andrew Luck if he had come out in 2012. Yeah, ahead of RG3. But he returned. You see it fairly often.

But, it doesn't work for your narrative to say "Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior year, and while there, they tweaked his mechanics". Doesn't have the same impact does it ?

Nope, so you rode with the "Man, the reason he went back to Florida was to fix his mechanics". Problem is, THAT WAS NOT TRUE.

Now, if you are interested in having an honest discussion, I'll be more than happy to oblige. But if you insist on making **** up, even after reading articles that demonstrate your position to be wrong, then it's not worth my time talking with you.

 

[belichick010405]

Wrong. You PRESUME that he returned to Florida because he wanted to fix his mechanics. In the process, you ignored ANY and ALL evidence to the contrary. Evidence that readily demonstrates that your statement was false.

Tell us, did Barkley return to USC his senior season to fix his mechanics ? He was viewed as the #2 pick behind Andrew Luck if he had come out in 2012. Yeah, ahead of RG3. But he returned. You see it fairly often.

But, it doesn't work for your narrative to say "Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior year, and while there, they tweaked his mechanics". Doesn't have the same impact does it ?

Nope, so you rode with the "Man, the reason he went back to Florida was to fix his mechanics". Problem is, THAT WAS NOT TRUE.

Now, if you are interested in having an honest discussion, I'll be more than happy to oblige. But if you insist on making **** up, even after reading articles that demonstrate your position to be wrong, then it's not worth my time talking with you.

Wow - you are in complete denial. Back to ignore you go.

 

[Demosthenes]

Wow - you are in complete denial. Back to ignore you go.

I'm not in denial about a damned thing. You directly stated that THE REASON Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior Year was to fix his mechanics.

That is INCORRECT. Even the articles that YOU linked to demonstrate that YOU are wrong.

It doesn't mean that he didn't work on his mechanics going into his Senior season, but that isn't what you claimed.

 

[belichick010405]

I'm not in denial about a damned thing. You directly stated that THE REASON Tebow returned to Florida for his Senior Year was to fix his mechanics.

That is INCORRECT. Even the articles that YOU linked to demonstrate that YOU are wrong.

It doesn't mean that he didn't work on his mechanics going into his Senior season, but that isn't what you claimed.

Really? Please show me the exact post where I said that. I use source material to provide an opinion. You just spout.

 

[Demosthenes]

Really? Please show me the exact post where I said that. I use source material to provide an opinion. You just spout.

The exact post where you said it ?

Demos - it was well chronicled that Tebow stayed because after his junior year, the pre-draft evaluation indicated that he still had to work on his throwing mechanics. This is not a 2013 issue.

This has been an issue with him going back to 2008 and 2009. I don't know why everyone realizes this but there was a reason why he didn't enter the draft following his junior year and to deny this - is clearly nothing more than rose-colored glasses homerism which is ironic considering Deus Irae's comment about "anti-Tebow" zealots.

This has been an issue for him for as long as he was the starter at U of F.

Sources:

Florida Gators quarterback Tim Tebow working on smoother, quicker passing motion - Orlando Sentinel

Charles Davis says Florida tried to change Tebow's mechanics | ProFootballTalk

Tim Tebow works on throwing motion for Florida Gators - ESPN

What you did was cite source material, and then you offered YOUR opinion of Tebow's reasoning for staying at Florida.

As I've noted, he didn't actually retool his mechanics until his Senior season was over and he was preparing for Florida's pro day. IF he was set on leaving Florida and going to the NFL after his Junior year, he could have done the work to change his throwing motion then and applied for the draft. Actually, that would have made more sense given than he would have only been 1 year removed from winning the Heisman AND he would have been coming off a National Championship victory.

Think about it. Help win NC as a Freshman. Win the Heisman as a Sophomore. Win another NC as a Junior, THEN declare for the draft and announce that he would unveil "Tebow 2.0" at the Pro Day.

The fact of the matter is that he wanted to come back for his Senior year for the reasons that have been stated in the two freaking articles that YOU posted.

In short, you incorrectly overstated the case, and now you are doubling down after being called.

 

[belichick010405]

The exact post where you said it ?





What you did was cite source material, and then you offered YOUR opinion of Tebow's reasoning for staying at Florida.

As I've noted, he didn't actually retool his mechanics until his Senior season was over and he was preparing for Florida's pro day. IF he was set on leaving Florida and going to the NFL after his Junior year, he could have done the work to change his throwing motion then and applied for the draft. Actually, that would have made more sense given than he would have only been 1 year removed from winning the Heisman AND he would have been coming off a National Championship victory.

Think about it. Help win NC as a Freshman. Win the Heisman as a Sophomore. Win another NC as a Junior, THEN declare for the draft and announce that he would unveil "Tebow 2.0" at the Pro Day.

The fact of the matter is that he wanted to come back for his Senior year for the reasons that have been stated in the two freaking articles that YOU posted.

In short, you incorrectly overstated the case, and now you are doubling down after being called.

Demos - the articles that I used as sources are very clear that there was more than ONE reason why Tebow returned for his senior season.

In addition to the public relations purposes, the pre-draft evaluation indicated that he still had work to do as a quarterback.

I clearly not overstated what was reported and it is clear that you are letting the others get to you.

Relax, Tebow has two games before the picture becomes a lot clearer who makes the initial 53. As I said last night that I am going to re-watch last nights' game and I will re-evaluate both Mallett and Tebow. Chill....

 

[Demosthenes]

Demos - the articles that I used as sources are very clear that there was more than ONE reason why Tebow returned for his senior season.

In addition to the public relations purposes, the pre-draft evaluation indicated that he still had work to do as a quarterback.

I clearly not overstated what was reported and it is clear that you are letting the others get to you.

Relax, Tebow has two games before the picture becomes a lot clearer who makes the initial 53. As I said last night that I am going to re-watch last nights' game and I will re-evaluate both Mallett and Tebow. Chill....

Umm, NO, they aren't "very clear that there was more than ONE reason why Tebow returned for his senior season."


What happened is that you read some articles, saw comments about his pre-draft evaluation, and then you JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION that the reason he returned for his Senior year was to fix his mechanics.

As I said, he could have overhauled his mechanics the very same way without returning to Florida his Senior year, the same way he did AFTER his Senior year.

 

[belichick010405]

Umm, NO, they aren't "very clear that there was more than ONE reason why Tebow returned for his senior season."


What happened is that you read some articles, saw comments about his pre-draft evaluation, and then you JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION that the reason he returned for his Senior year was to fix his mechanics.

As I said, he could have overhauled his mechanics the very same way without returning to Florida his Senior year, the same way he did AFTER his Senior year.

Ok Demos - You are right and I am wrong. You win and I lose. You know everything and I clearly know nothing.

Have a great weekend.

 

[fumbrunner]

Regardless of whether he was working on it in college or not, be has now been in the NFL for a number of years and still struggles with anything beyond a screen pass. His mechanics are still awful and his accuracy is even worse. He certainly had a couple nice runs though. I'll give him credit for that.