The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

[OhExaulted1]

You make no sense. You seem to think that the intelligent approach is Love Kraft or Hate Kraft regardless of his actions. You need some objectivity.
Kraft dropped the ball. He did not pursue the recourse available to him, and your strawman of sue the world isn't what anyone is talking about. His recourse was to appeal. During that appeal to have expert witness shred the Wells report. To go to the owners and explain an injustice is being done and prove to them that there is no guilt. Instead he chose to 'end the rhetoric'.
Why would anyone who recognizes his failures have 'egg on their face' if he does an about face and does what he should have done to begin with?
I am judging Kraft by his actions, if his actions change my opinion of them changes.

Here's my objectivity:There would be NO New England Patriots franchise to root for the last 21 years without Bob Kraft. This team was GONE if he didn't step up to the plate. Instead we got 4 championships with 2 decades+ and counting of unparralled success.

If you and others here want to hate on him I'm not joining your bandwagon. Rail on me all you want, but I know what this franchise was before. To me you and others smack of spoiled, ungrateful impetuous children that cry when daddy only gave them a beamer when they wanted a Ferrari.

In the grand scheme of things we lost a draft pick that was going to be taken irregardless. Has Kraft made mistakes? Sure. If you can't stand him then man up and stand behind your principles and go root for someone else. I'm sure the Jets would love to gain some Benedict Arnold turncoats. Myself I'll stay a true and loyal Patriot.

You're perspective of this entire ordeal seems incredibly short sighted right now and just as incredibly amnesiac as to recent history. I'm astonished at how fickle loyalties are in this forum.

 

[AQPE]

I was a big advocate of Fredo Shaft for many years, including on this forum. I will always appreciate what he did in stepping up to the plate and keeping the team here, being smart enough to realize that running the Pats isn't like running International Forest Products, getting the stadium the team needed for 40 years, and being quite possibly the most effective owner in the league in advancing their financial position. I'm not an ingrate when it comes to Fredo.

BUT, his sniveling press conference was an unforgivable moment for me. His statement of regret the day before training camp was phony; its intent was to avoid getting heckled by the fans at camp. I don't believe for one second he ever intended to fight the league. He wants to be loved by people who he looks up to, even when he has no reason to look up to them given how much more he's actually accomplished compared to them. Goodhell and ThanksGrandpa Mara are two examples of that. He has stopped giving a crap what we all think, other than not wanting to get heckled. Mark my words when this July rolls around you'll get another mealy-mouthed statement from him intended to shut us up. It worked like a charm for him last year. Frankly the guy is a putz and is not worth giving attention to.

So let's not waste time and energy on Fredo. He isn't worth it. Give yourselves a break and stop hoping he'll fight for the picks. It. Isn't. Happening. Just be thankful we still have BB and Brady for next year hopefully several more. They'll make it good even without the picks.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Here's my objectivity:There would be NO New England Patriots franchise to root for the last 21 years without Bob Kraft. This team was GONE if he didn't step up to the plate. Instead we got 4 championships with 2 decades+ and counting of unparralled success.

If you and others here want to hate on him I'm not joining your bandwagon. Rail on me all you want, but I know what this franchise was before. To me you and others smack of spoiled, ungrateful impetuous children that cry when daddy only gave them a beamer when they wanted a Ferrari.

In the grand scheme of things we lost a draft pick that was going to be taken irregardless. Has Kraft made mistakes? Sure. If you can't stand him then man up and stand behind your principles and go root for someone else. I'm sure the Jets would love to gain some Benedict Arnold turncoats. Myself I'll stay a true and loyal Patriot.

You're perspective of this entire ordeal seems incredibly short sighted right now and just as incredibly amnesiac as to recent history. I'm astonished at how fickle loyalties are in this forum.

People are standing by their principles when they call out Kraft. Going to root for another team would be the opposite of that. Not sure why you take it so personally but Kraft deserves the criticism.

Kraft has made his original investment in the team back 25x over in large part thanks to the support of the fans, and the contributions Bill Belichick and Tom Brady among others.

Kraft publicly did nothing but pay weak lip service in support of Tom Brady when Kraft's partners were viciously attacking and slandering him. Instead of protecting his team, Kraft offered up some lame appeasement for the "good of the other 31".

This was after Bob's partners created witchunt #1 spygate, another manufactured cheating scandal with an outrageously excessive punishment (apparently not outrageous enough because deflategate was supposedly a make up call). Guess who got Bob's full support after ******** Scandal #1? Goodell did. Kraft publicly backed him every chance he got, he was even called the assistant commish or some such ****. Kraft pushed Goodell's salary from $2,000,000 to $50,000,000. Never, even after deflategate did Kraft say one negative word publicly about Goodell. You know who Kraft bragged about calling a schmuck? Belichick.

You want to give Kraft a lifetime pass free from any criticism, fine. Just understand not everybody feels that Kraft deserves never ending gratitude. The Patriots are still in Foxborough because it was in Bob Kraft's best interest to keep them there after exhausting all other options, he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart, and he has been massively rewarded. He has repeatedly sided with the very people who have conspired to take down Belichick and Brady, the two people most responsible for his success.

 

[OhExaulted1]

No Bob Kraft. No PatsFans.com.

Think about that for a second.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

No Billy Sullivan, No Patriots.

As the morons conclude therefore Sullivan should never be criticized for his mistakes.

 

[ausbacker]

No Bob Kraft. No PatsFans.com.

Think about that for a second.

Why are you positioning that a person who performs a great act and is widely lauded for that act can't be chastised when they **** the bed? Kraft ****ed up big time. It's more than reasonable for people to be pissed off with him.

 

[Ring 6]

Here's my objectivity:There would be NO New England Patriots franchise to root for the last 21 years without Bob Kraft. This team was GONE if he didn't step up to the plate. Instead we got 4 championships with 2 decades+ and counting of unparralled success.

So you are not talking about how he mishandled Deflategate, you are talking about him overall as an owner.
This is why you are not objective about this topic.
If your position is Kraft has done a lot of good, so you want to avert your eyes if he does anything bad, that is your right, but its not an argument that he wasn't wrong in this case.

If you and others here want to hate on him I'm not joining your bandwagon. Rail on me all you want, but I know what this franchise was before. To me you and others smack of spoiled, ungrateful impetuous children that cry when daddy only gave them a beamer when they wanted a Ferrari.

Am I not allowed to be unhappy with the end of this season because we have won so much? Should we never question BB? Is everything he does right because of how much he has won before?

In the grand scheme of things we lost a draft pick that was going to be taken irregardless. Has Kraft made mistakes? Sure. If you can't stand him then man up and stand behind your principles and go root for someone else. I'm sure the Jets would love to gain some Benedict Arnold turncoats. Myself I'll stay a true and loyal Patriot.

You are not a better fan because you rumpswab Kraft. Disagreeing with his poor judgment doesn't make me any less of a fan and my principles do not dictate that I must worship the ground Kraft walks on and ignore his failings in order to be a fan.

You're perspective of this entire ordeal seems incredibly short sighted right now and just as incredibly amnesiac as to recent history. I'm astonished at how fickle loyalties are in this forum.

My perception of this ordeal is limited to this ordeal. It is only you that thinks believing he did a terrible job in this situation requires abandoning fandom, and considering his tenure a failure.

 

[Ring 6]

No Bob Kraft. No PatsFans.com.

Think about that for a second.

The franchise would still exist. I'd still be a fan. You apparently wouldn't.

 

[Kontradiction]

No Billy Sullivan, No Patriots.

As the morons conclude therefore Sullivan should never be criticized for his mistakes.

 

[zoostation]

People are standing by their principles when they call out Kraft. Going to root for another team would be the opposite of that. Not sure why you take it so personally but Kraft deserves the criticism.

Kraft has made his original investment in the team back 25x over in large part thanks to the support of the fans, and the contributions Bill Belichick and Tom Brady among others.

Kraft publicly did nothing but pay weak lip service in support of Tom Brady when Kraft's partners were viciously attacking and slandering him. Instead of protecting his team, Kraft offered up some lame appeasement for the "good of the other 31".

This was after Bob's partners created witchunt #1 spygate, another manufactured cheating scandal with an outrageously excessive punishment (apparently not outrageous enough because deflategate was supposedly a make up call). Guess who got Bob's full support after ******** Scandal #1? Goodell did. Kraft publicly backed him every chance he got, he was even called the assistant commish or some such ****. Kraft pushed Goodell's salary from $2,000,000 to $50,000,000. Never, even after deflategate did Kraft say one negative word publicly about Goodell. You know who Kraft bragged about calling a schmuck? Belichick.

You want to give Kraft a lifetime pass free from any criticism, fine. Just understand not everybody feels that Kraft deserves never ending gratitude. The Patriots are still in Foxborough because it was in Bob Kraft's best interest to keep them there after exhausting all other options, he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart, and he has been massively rewarded. He has repeatedly sided with the very people who have conspired to take down Belichick and Brady, the two people most responsible for his success.

Around 2005 (or so) the Patriots upgraded both end zone scoreboards with larger HD boards and some folks on this board assumed it was done as a gesture to the fans. Comments along the lines of, "Robert Kraft continues to take money out of his pocket to benefit the fans". The fans that actually think Kraft is reaching into his pocket for them are the same fans that will never criticize him and always provide a lifelong pass. These fans are loyal, but too blind to see each scoreboard is surrounded by a steady stream of income in the name of Coors Light and Doritos. Kraft is a great owner, but he doesn't take a dime out of his pocket unless it will return tenfold.

Mr Kraft - We want our draft picks back.

 

[OhExaulted1]

The franchise would still exist. I'd still be a fan. You apparently wouldn't.

Yes, it would. Sort of....and you would currently be a fan of the.....

 

[luuked]

Here's my objectivity:There would be NO New England Patriots franchise to root for the last 21 years without Bob Kraft. This team was GONE if he didn't step up to the plate. Instead we got 4 championships with 2 decades+ and counting of unparralled success.

Flawless logic. He is also directly responsible for the people Hernandez murdered. Because if there were no NE Patriots they would still be alive.

Thinking about it he might have as much of a role in the murder of said people as he had in our success in the past 15 years.

Hint: "Apart from hiring BB, none."

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, it would. Sort of....and you would currently be a fan of the.....

Possibly, and I would still be a fan. Evidently you would not.

 

[OhExaulted1]

So you are not talking about how he mishandled Deflategate, you are talking about him overall as an owner.
This is why you are not objective about this topic.
If your position is Kraft has done a lot of good, so you want to avert your eyes if he does anything bad, that is your right, but its not an argument that he wasn't wrong in this case.


Am I not allowed to be unhappy with the end of this season because we have won so much? Should we never question BB? Is everything he does right because of how much he has won before?


You are not a better fan because you rumpswab Kraft. Disagreeing with his poor judgment doesn't make me any less of a fan and my principles do not dictate that I must worship the ground Kraft walks on and ignore his failings in order to be a fan.


My perception of this ordeal is limited to this ordeal. It is only you that thinks believing he did a terrible job in this situation requires abandoning fandom, and considering his tenure a failure.

Bottom line: For all the posturing and rhetoric you wish Kraft had done, the end result as it stands right now would be the same. Goodell would have squashed any appeal and we would still be out the first this and 4th next year. Goodells refusal to reduce Brady's suspension is enough evidence to convince any rational person that's how it would have went down.

Maybe it would have made you feel better about it if Kraft had screamed to the heavens and hired an army of lawyers, but it would't have changed where things stand right now.

Am I unhappy about how the season ended? Yes. Along with all the fans of the other 31 teams, although there are degrees. We did make it to the AFCCG after all. Spoiled as we are.

 

[IllegalContact]

Bottom line: For all the posturing and rhetoric you wish Kraft had done, the end result as it stands right now would be the same. Goodell would have squashed any appeal and we would still be out the first this and 4th next year. Goodells refusal to reduce Brady's suspension is enough evidence to convince any rational person that's how it would have went down.

Maybe it would have made you feel better about it if Kraft had screamed to the heavens and hired an army of lawyers, but it would't have changed where things stand right now.

Am I unhappy about how the season ended? Yes. Along with all the fans of the other 31 teams, although there are degrees. We did make it to the AFCCG after all. Spoiled as we are.

a few years ago, many of the same morons were critical of Gronk and his apparent lack of conviction.........it's a brutally pathetic sports attitude that the Boston area seems especially adept at creating.....they were so wrong to judge gronk then and they're equally wrong judging kraft now.......

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bottom line: For all the posturing and rhetoric you wish Kraft had done, the end result as it stands right now would be the same. Goodell would have squashed any appeal and we would still be out the first this and 4th next year. Goodells refusal to reduce Brady's suspension is enough evidence to convince any rational person that's how it would have went down

This point has been rehashed over and over again. Do you not even read what others have said regarding this?

1. It is necessary to appeal the suspension through the league, even if the appeal process is a joke. Courts require that a plaintiff exhaust internal options before suing. In fact, because the appeal process is likely to be inherently unfair, that can actually lead in itself for a favorable ruling (see the Brady case.) You even bring up the Brady case as if to say this is reason why you shouldn't appeal without realizing that Brady needed to take that step and it ultimately helped him to vacate the penalty.

2. Even if he weren't going to sue the league outside of the appeals process, it's been pointed out that Goodell made this a battle of public opinion. Kraft didn't have to win the appeal to make a statement about the Wells Report and the unjust nature of the league.

Maybe it would have made you feel better about it if Kraft had screamed to the heavens and hired an army of lawyers, but it would't have changed where things stand right now.

When you say that something is the bottom line and seem to be a voice of authority, please add something besides complete speculation. You have absolutely no idea where things would stand right now, both from a perspective of vacated penalties, and more importantly, from the standpoint of public opinion.

It's fair to say that IT IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that the Patriots and their fans would be in a more favorable position, by reputation and/or by draft picks, if Kraft had done something rather than doing absolutely nothing.

And I'll say one more time that this goes beyond the value of forfeited draft picks. There is something fundamentally wrong, on a human level, about the way Kraft would let Brady and the entire fanbase burn at the stake while offering virtually no help besides a couple of soundbites early on. Even he admitted that he made a mistake... why can't you? He has admitted that he made a mistake, so the only question is whether or not we forgive him, which depends on how badly you think he screwed up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

a few years ago, many of the same morons were critical of Gronk and his apparent lack of conviction.........it's a brutally pathetic sports attitude that the Boston area seems especially adept at creating.....they were so wrong to judge gronk then and they're equally wrong judging kraft now.......

Oh, did Gronk publicly apologize for his mistakes like Kraft did? Pretty sure Kraft judged himself, but you seem to think it's unfair to agree with his own self-assessment. This thread isn't about whether or not Kraft was wrong - he has acknowledged that he was wrong. This is about whether or not his sins are forgivable in the eyes of fans.

By the way, that is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen. Not exaggerating.

 

[OhExaulted1]

This point has been rehashed over and over again. Do you not even read what others have said regarding this?

1. It is necessary to appeal the suspension through the league, even if the appeal process is a joke. Courts require that a plaintiff exhaust internal options before suing. In fact, because the appeal process is likely to be inherently unfair, that can actually lead in itself for a favorable ruling (see the Brady case.) You even bring up the Brady case as if to say this is reason why you shouldn't appeal without realizing that Brady needed to take that step and it ultimately helped him to vacate the penalty.

2. Even if he weren't going to sue the league outside of the appeals process, it's been pointed out that Goodell made this a battle of public opinion. Kraft didn't have to win the appeal to make a statement about the Wells Report and the unjust nature of the league.

1.Brady had another avenue available that Kraft did not beyond the appeal process. He's the member of a union (the NFLPA). His rights as an employee gave him the right to seek a legal avenue to combat this injustice. There is no owners union. That and the fact he would in essence be suing an employee.

2. Public opinion? Kraft didn't need to make a statement for most rational minds to begin to conclude this entire episode is a farce. Brady winning in Federal Court was a resounding slap in der commissioners face. "Winning" in the court of public opinion is a misguided folly and does nothing to bring draft picks back.

When you say that something is the bottom line and seem to be a voice of authority, please add something besides complete speculation. You have absolutely no idea where things would stand right now, both from a perspective of vacated penalties, and more importantly, from the standpoint of public opinion.

It's fair to say that IT IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that the Patriots and their fans would be in a more favorable position, by reputation and/or by draft picks, if Kraft had done something rather than doing absolutely nothing.

And I'll say one more time that this goes beyond the value of forfeited draft picks. There is something fundamentally wrong, on a human level, about the way Kraft would let Brady and the entire fanbase burn at the stake while offering virtually no help besides a couple of soundbites early on. Even he admitted that he made a mistake... why can't you? He has admitted that he made a mistake, so the only question is whether or not we forgive him, which depends on how badly you think he screwed up.

You seriously believe that? Public opinion? Human level? Reputation? Have you ever read the comments section of PFT, ESPN or NFL? Like even before #Framegate?

Bottom line: Changing hearts and minds is a ridiculously fruitless endevour. As far as admitting mistakes, didn't Kraft quite clearly state his mistake was putting faith in the "league" (i.e Roger)?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Possibly, and I would still be a fan. Evidently you would not.

That is correct. I would most likely NOT be a fan of the St. Louis Stallions.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I could type an entire 3 page article about the mistakes Kraft has made over the years. Grier over Parcells. The threat to move to Connecticut. The hammered speeches. Giving a ring to Putin. Bizzare GF videos.

Even this episode, although his mistakes to me are percieved differently than some here though. Demanding an apology on the tarmac was taken as a personal affront by Goodell IMO. Then trusting that same vindictive egomaniacal jackhole to go light on Tom if he capitulated was a fool's errand. The loss of those picks was a foregone conclusion the moment he walked away from the microphone in Glendale IMO.