The Krafts are relentless in their assault on Belichick's coaching.

[signbabybrady]

Re the 2008 team without Brady.

11-5 sounds good but they didn't make the playoffs because they couldn't beat good teams anymore without Brady... and dropping from 16-0 to 11-5 is the exact same drop as 11-5 to 6-10 in wins... the latter makes it not sound all that impressive.

To be fair the way some on here would like to have you believe losing Brady should have made us 0-16.

 

[HSanders]

Re the 2008 team without Brady.

11-5 sounds good but they didn't make the playoffs because they couldn't beat good teams anymore without Brady... and dropping from 16-0 to 11-5 is the exact same drop as 11-5 to 6-10 in wins... the latter makes it not sound all that impressive.

they dropped from 11-5 with cassel to 10-6 when brady returned in 09. neither team won a playoff game. were they ****tier because brady came back? of course not (though he was subpar for him that year while he recovered).
point being records aren't in a vacuum. there are too many variables to pin something to only 1 thing in this sport.

 

[HSanders]

Brady did make Bill. By Bill's own admission.



BB is not dumb. He understands he's not in the GOAT coach conversation or even in the same zip code if Brady wasn't here.

they made each other better. neither would have as many rings with the pats without the other.bb is acknowledging that tb was that important,as he should.

 

[upstater1]

Brady is the goat. Because Brady IQ and determination and skill allowed for this anomaly.

His ability to accurately read defense on the fly and fit balls into tight accurate spots whole protecting the ball makes him world class.

I fail to see how he couldn't accomplish this without Bill who has shown over and over that he doesn't understand the offensive side of the ball.

Im not taking issue with anything but the last part. The key to defense is totally understanding the offense. They had 3 top offensive coordinators over the years. The move to McDaniels from an old hand in Weis couldn't have been done without supreme understanding of the offense.

The move to Patricia was a huge mistake. He shouldn't have done it. But whatever the move was, you have to realize you don't get to that level with 3 different coordinators without having incredible awareness of offense.

Granted, B'OB came on when Brady was well established as the greatest.

When you see Belichick and Brady meeting to talk over offense in those videos from the post 2004 era, you see 2 people who understand offense really well (I know it was from that era simply because they were discussing Ed Reed and Reed going against Manning's Colts).

 

[upstater1]

they dropped from 11-5 with cassel to 10-6 when brady returned in 09. neither team won a playoff game. were they ****tier because brady came back? of course not (though he was subpar for him that year while he recovered).
point being records aren't in a vacuum. there are too many variables to pin something to only 1 thing in this sport.

Yes, it's a wonder everyone doesn't agree with this.

Everyone agrees QB is by far the most important position in sports.
Everyone agrees that Brady is easily the greatest.

It shouldn't be too much of a jump then to see that with crappy QBs like Kosar, Cam and Mac, Belichick lost a lot of games.
With QBs who didn't crap the bed like Testaverde, Cassell and 4 games with Jimmy G./Brisset, they won.

Right now we have the best coach in football being Andy Reid. He happens to also have one of the greatest QBs in the history of the game. This would seem to be a coincidence or something for Reid, and few are giving him credit, but the fact is, Reid is a better coach than Shanahan, and not because he has Mahomes. He's just a better coach PERIOD. I could go on and on about this but Reid makes a huge difference, and NO I don't think Mahomes wins 3 Super Bowls without him.

 

[XLIX]

holy moly...

LITERALLY NO ONE IS SAYING BILL IS GEPETTO AND BRADY IS PINOCCHIO.
You are tilting at windmills,don quixote.

You know, when someone says "Bill developed Brady" they sure are coming fairly close to the above....

 

[XLIX]

3 of those 12 years he was either in a first year as a new coach or a lame duck on a franchise that was moving.

oh, here we go again... the year by year breakdown of why none of it counts....

we shouldn't count his first year with a franchise for some reason
we shouldn't count his final year with a franchise for some reason
we shouldn't count his rebuilding years for some reason
we shouldn't count his first year with a new quarterback for some reason
we shouldn't count his final year with an old quarterback for some reason

in other words, take ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of it away except 2008 and look how good Belichick is!!!

 

[HSanders]

You know, when someone says "Bill developed Brady" they sure are coming fairly close to the above....

he did develop him. he didn't create him,which is why i was using that analogy. if people say bb created tb,they are wrong.

 

[signbabybrady]

oh, here we go again... the year by year breakdown of why none of it counts....

we shouldn't count his first year with a franchise for some reason
we shouldn't count his final year with a franchise for some reason
we shouldn't count his rebuilding years for some reason
we shouldn't count his first year with a new quarterback for some reason
we shouldn't count his final year with an old quarterback for some reason

in other words, take ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of it away except 2008 and look how good Belichick is!!!

I lean towards take none of it away and he's a 6 time SB champ and unquestionably the GOAT.

But you guys insist on stripping away his best years so I think it's only fair to explain away couple of his bad ones.

 

[vicspats]

The Krafts own the team. They hired Bill to run it. He did an outstanding job of doing so, and the Krafts supported him throughout that period, asking only such questions are are perfectly appropriate for the owner of any enterprise, for any employer, to ask of an employee. Then Bill began to fail, badly, first as GM, then as coach. They withdrew their support and fired him, as any owner is entitled and well-advised to do when an employee fails to do his job. I have no idea what all the d-----d whining is about. Grow up.

Agree … Holy Crap like listening to whether Tommy broke up with the Gazelle or vice versa …high school is ovah!!! Loved everything about Tommy, loved everything about Bill. It’s over …. NEXT !!!!!

 

[signbabybrady]

You know, when someone says "Bill developed Brady" they sure are coming fairly close to the above....

Every player needs coaching and developing this is not a knock on the player at all.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

they dropped from 11-5 with cassel to 10-6 when brady returned in 09. neither team won a playoff game. were they ****tier because brady came back? of course not (though he was subpar for him that year while he recovered).
point being records aren't in a vacuum. there are too many variables to pin something to only 1 thing in this sport.

Tom came out that year looking like the best he ever has, too bad that injury happened because that could have been another great year. He came out the first game looking like a well-oiled machine and was super focused. You know he was pissed losing the perfect season and it showed. What could have been.

 

[venecol]

Here you go upstater. Mayo heard you. Feel better snowflake?

 

[venecol]

Upstater & crybabybrady when 10 minutes have gone by and they haven't white knighted for Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

Upstater & crybabybrady when 10 minutes have gone by and they haven't white knighted for Bill.

Where did that picture come from? Is it a selfie of you when ten minutes passes and you haven't trashed Bill and the Patriots yet?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I thought Pioli made it pretty clear their jobs were on the line when they benched Bledsoe. Had Brady lost games for the team, Bill would’ve been out of a job. Kraft made that clear with the “better make it work” line.

QB’s make or break all coaches. This debate shouldn’t still be going on.

 

[Thelonious]

I have absolutely no doubt they will do things a new way and they should (even if the new way needs to be tested before it means anything). A recrimination is when you do this publicly. I have no problem with what Eliot Wolf said about doing things a new way. It's the anonymous stuff (from "higher management" to quote Reiss) that I'm highlighting. The word "sabotage" is a much stronger word than recrimination when it comes to assigning blame. If you feel recrimination is too strong, what do you feel about "sabotage"?

I think the entire "issue" is silly. When in doubt, go with Shakespeare: How about "much ado about nothing."

 

[upstater1]

I think the entire "issue" is silly. When in doubt, go with Shakespeare: How about "much ado about nothing."

I posted this long before all the news writers around town wrote their articles about it. I think the Krafts might've gotten the message (Not saying because of me). We'll see

 

[Steve102]

I thought Pioli made it pretty clear their jobs were on the line when they benched Bledsoe. Had Brady lost games for the team, Bill would’ve been out of a job. Kraft made that clear with the “better make it work” line.

QB’s make or break all coaches. This debate shouldn’t still be going on.

It's really the end of it, isn't it.

Knoll and Bradshaw
Walsh and Montana
Landry and Staubach
Belichick and Brady
Johnson and Aikman
Reid and Mahomes

Amazing how smart these guys are when they have a great QB.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

How is it that Robert loves to tell you how involved he was in every decision that went well and every bonehead one that went wrong was purely Bill and it's "don't look at me, that was Bill".

You were either heavily involved in all decisions including allowing him to hire Matt Patricia as OC and move on from Brady or you weren't involved at all apart from signing the checks and every decision was Bills, you can't have it both ways.