The good way outweighs the bad.

[Pat the Pats Fan]

2.5 more wins.

10-7=2.5….must be Biden math

 

[ivanvamp]

Just to add some examples of what I mean,

When you argue the Dolphins game, you omit the fact that, on the very drive before the Harris fumble, Tua threw a bad pick, because same/same.

When you argue the Bucs game and say that Folk missed a long FG, it's more than that. That FG would have been Folk's longest of the season, and would have tied his career high, which was made in 2010 and has never been matched.

When you argue the Titans game, you omit the fact that the Titans were missing their starting WRs and the best RB in the game, and still had it as a 3 point game at the half.

Etc...


And winning/losing close games is what happens in the NFL. Most games aren't 45-3.

But the Patriots were very much "competitive" in those games, against good opponents. I never said they "should have won" those games, but the OP didn't say that - he talked about being "competitive". The Pats very much were competitive against quality teams this year.

 

[ivanvamp]

competing means winning. i should have been more clear.

Well yes, still some work to do on that. Look, the Pats aren't great, we all know this. But they're improving and the organization is on the upswing. That's good since, you know, we're in a rebuilding process. More pieces are being put in place.

 

[Tunescribe]

They didn’t didn’t do a rebuild. They did a remodel. As such, there are still numerous problems that were never addressed which must now be addressed.

It's obvious from what should be considered a bottom-10 roster in 2020 that rebuilding, retooling or your oddly parsed "remodeling" this team is a multiyear process. Free agent acquisitions are part of that process and with a few exceptions (Karras, Brown, Collins) the 2021 additions are on multiyear contracts making them "rebuild components." Combining that with a strong rookie class anchored by a starting QB, the Patriots rebounded to a winning record and playoff berth while setting a foundation for 2022 and beyond. I'd consider the OP's optimism well founded, but then I'm foremost a Pats fan.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

But the Patriots were very much "competitive" in those games, against good opponents. I never said they "should have won" those games, but the OP didn't say that - he talked about being "competitive". The Pats very much were competitive against quality teams this year.

Yes, they showed they belonged on the same field with good teams like TB, Dal, LA, etc., and deserved making the playoffs. Nobody imagined those things in training camp.

We weren't particularly lucky this year. There were no miracle/gifted wins, yet at least a couple of the losses should've been wins. Even the NO game could have been a W if Smith doesn't turn a certain completion into a pick 6 for a 14 point swing. The same with the 2nd Bills game with JC dropping a gift interception late which we've never seen him do. A couple of those breaks and they would have been the #1 or 2 seed. They also got unlucky that the Raiders-Chargers game didn't end in a tie like it should have, cause then we wouldn't have drawn the Bills in the 1st round, who are the best team in the league right now and will finally win their Lombardi this year.

That said, BB has a lot of work to do to keep this train moving forward.

 

[203Pat]

We are better off after this season than we were after 2020 but we have a good amount of work to do to be a real contender. Unless Mac makes major strides I honestly think the team may take a step back next year. The defense will need to be almost fully revamped in the front seven and if I had to guess JC Jackson will walk with leaves us with a glaring hole at corner. With all the work the defense needs I don't know how much money will be left to spend on offense so we are going to need a strong draft class to help supplement. The five-ish years of bad drafting in the mid 2010's has left us in a cap crunch and now we have a bunch of aging veterans and high priced free agents eating up a lot of money.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We also lost Trent Brown for half the season, which was key cause our OL never really jelled except briefly in the first Buffalo game. We've got to get that OL to play to its potential like it did in the 2018 SB run. Then at the very end of the year we also had some bad Covid & injury luck.

 

[Simpelton]

How does Jones being what he was supposed to be, but not being an obviously elite QB, cut 2-3 years off a rebuild, and are you basing your entire theory on that one player?

In reverse order, no, I'm not basing the theory on one player. The emergence of Stevenson, Bryant and others are important as well. Most of the pieces exist for a dominant run game.

I expect to see that side of our game expanded next year, especially Rham getting the benefit of a full year of experience to play that critical RB2 role that's so important to make sure we have fresh legs late in the game.

A lot of our biggest issues can be solved in the upcoming draft. We need to get young at LB and pick up a talented WR. It's gonna come down to what BB and Wolf put together.

As for Jones -- his floor right now is a guy like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins. He has a ceiling too, but that's the floor. You can get into the playoffs with Jones even if this is all he is.

And he's a rookie, this is not all he is.

In order be skeptical of Jones you need to be able to maintain that Jones is absolutely and utterly incapable of growth. Also that his supporting cast on offense was perfect and no improvement can possibly be made to his level of offensive support cast.

That is a ridiculous argument to make of a highly touted rookie. And especially so when you consider the potential for personnel upgrades.

He'll gain experience and confidence. What he did was almost good enough already. Let him develop some chemistry with the receivers and let the run game carry him in the early years -- just like it did for Brady. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised with the result.

 

[203Pat]

Yes, they showed they belonged on the same field with good teams like TB, Dal, LA, etc., and deserved making the playoffs. Nobody imagined those things in training camp.

We weren't particularly lucky this year. There were no miracle/gifted wins, yet at least a couple of the losses should've been wins. Even the NO game could have been a W if Smith doesn't turn a certain completion into a pick 6 for a 14 point swing. The same with the 2nd Bills game with JC dropping a gift interception late which we've never seen him do. A couple of those breaks and they would have been the #1 or 2 seed. They also got unlucky that the Raiders-Chargers game didn't end in a tie like it should have, cause then we wouldn't have drawn the Bills in the 1st round, who are the best team in the league right now and will finally win their Lombardi this year.

That said, BB has a lot of work to do to keep this train moving forward.

I think this team was luckier than most. We avoided major injuries outside of James White and Jon Jones and we mostly avoided the Covid absences that ravaged the NFL the last month of the season. That Saints game we were never really in and we were close to blowing it against the Texans. Some of the better teams we beat in the win streak also had injuries at key spots, the Browns didn't have Chubb and a starting corner, the Titans didn't have Henry or their top two receivers, and the Bills were caught in a windstorm. Once things stopped breaking our way after the bye the wheels fell off.

 

[VectorPrime]

10-7=2.5….must be Biden math

There is an additional game, going from 7 to 10 wins literally isn’t mathematically the same.

 

[Nunchucks]

The offense is progressing. The defense is moving backwards. So many positions to replace on defense, nevermind improvements to make.

 

[Steve102]

Things I might think I think:

• How good or bad they are/were could be directly inverse to how long said person has been a fan. Those of us that recall the Rod Rust years, Victor Kiam, Lisa Olsen and even further back to Chuck Fairbanks leaving/staying seem to be much more tolerant of the rebuild. We know how bad it can get. Those of the younger fans who've been on board since Kraft bought the team or since Brady and Belichick have been here have only known winning. Just a thought.
• Mac isn't a dynamic player like Josh Allen or Mahomes. He may not need to be. I am willing to give The Kid 3 years to see how he grows. Year 1 was a success. Look back at Drew Bledsoe's rookie year. Meh at best. Let's see how Mac grows year 2 and 3.
• Defensively it's going the wrong way. I am interested to see how they right the ship. An infusion of speed and youth is needed.
• The team overall is better than last year. To the OP's point, the good outweighs the bad.

 

[Tunescribe]

There is an additional game, going from 7 to 10 wins literally isn’t mathematically the same.

Heaven forbid those pesky Patriots fans claim an extra half-win they have no business celebrating.

 

[venecol]

There is an additional game, going from 7 to 10 wins literally isn’t mathematically the same.

Agree. 10 wins in a 17 game season is equivalent to 9.4 wins in a 16 game one, so 2.5 more wins is more accurate than 3.

 

[Tunescribe]

Agree. 10 wins in a 17 game season is equivalent to 9.4 wins in a 16 game one, so 2.5 more wins is more accurate than 3.

Whoa there, hold on. Wouldn't it then be 2.4 more wins and not 2.5? Otherwise, Pats fans would erroneously be claiming an extra 12 minutes of victorious game time to which they're not entitled.

 

[Deus Irae]

But the Patriots were very much "competitive" in those games, against good opponents. I never said they "should have won" those games, but the OP didn't say that - he talked about being "competitive". The Pats very much were competitive against quality teams this year.

Again, it's the NFL. Most games aren't 45-3. Look at last year.

The Seahawks game was tied at the half, and ended as a 5 point game (35-30).
The Chiefs game was 6-3 at the half, and 13-3 after 3 quarters, before ending up at 26-10.
The Broncos game finished 18-12.
The 49ers game was never competitive, and ended as a complete ass kicking.
The first Bills game was 14-14 after three quarters, and ended up 24-21.
The Texans game was 24-17 after three quarters, and ended up 27-20.
The Rams game was never competitive, and ended as a blowout.
The Dolphins game was 9-7 Patriots after 3 quarters, before ending up as a 22-12 loss.
The second Bills game was a blowout that was over after the second quarter.


So, as bad as the Newton year was, most lost games were close/competitive/in striking range for at least most of the game. That's not because the team was good. It's because that's how the NFL works.


And the Bucs game, for example, was against a Tampa team missing Bernard, Dean, Gronk, Miller, Murphy-Bunting, Pierre Paul, and had Davis with an injured abdomen that put him on IR after the game, and Winfield lost to a concussion.

 

[Simpelton]

The offense is progressing. The defense is moving backwards. So many positions to replace on defense, nevermind improvements to make.

The defense is not moving backwards. It just didn't sustain its progress consistently.

Again this is what I mean when I refer to recency bias in the OP. The defense struggled, coinciding with a key injury to Christian Barmore who's a huge body mover on the D-line.

Now you can take that information and be a panic monger and say OMG THE D IS TERRIBLE FOREVER. You can in fact do that. It is a thing that can be done.

or you can be sane, and exhibit a level of wisdom common to 12 year olds, and recognize that perhaps Barmore broke because we relied too heavily on him and could stand to give him a bit more help in the form of a younger and more athletic LB group and perhaps another heavy DL to upgrade from Godchaux.

Quite frankly I'm impressed with many aspects of the D. The secondary in particular took the loss of Gilmore and Jones in stride with Jackson claiming, and deserving, top billing and Bryant stepping up. the safety group continuing their literal decade of consistent production for that position. We've got the physicality we need at the strong safety position. We get beat only when elite players make strong individual efforts and that can happen to any defense.

We do need to gain speed at LB and heavier on DE, but I'm sure Bill is on top of that.

Frankly I think it's time and past time to move Winovich to OLB, he's got the perfect body type for it and the guy just doesn't have the meat to be an elite edge rusher. I've been convinced since he was drafted that he's a born OLB and with him seeming to struggle (or at least not stand out) in his current role the time for a move seems right. That right there would help the LB unit, especially as Wino polished his game in the new role. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone, adding a highly athletic, very physical body to the LB unit where his speed plays better, and making room for a thicker body on the edge.

 

[venecol]

Whoa there, hold on. Wouldn't it then be 2.4 more wins and not 2.5? Otherwise, Pats fans would erroneously be claiming an extra 12 minutes of victorious game time to which they're not entitled.

Actually, 2.4 rounds down to 2 wins. Thanks for the clarification. After the $1.65x10^8 spent in FAcy & drafting a 1st Rd QB, it's just sad. Pretty sure Early Bird isn't happy.

 

[Nunchucks]

The defense is not moving backwards. It just didn't sustain its progress consistently.

Again this is what I mean when I refer to recency bias in the OP. The defense struggled, coinciding with a key injury to Christian Barmore who's a huge body mover on the D-line.

Now you can take that information and be a panic monger and say OMG THE D IS TERRIBLE FOREVER. You can in fact do that. It is a thing that can be done.

or you can be sane, and exhibit a level of wisdom common to 12 year olds, and recognize that perhaps Barmore broke because we relied too heavily on him and could stand to give him a bit more help in the form of a younger and more athletic LB group and perhaps another heavy DL to upgrade from Godchaux.

Quite frankly I'm impressed with many aspects of the D. The secondary in particular took the loss of Gilmore and Jones in stride with Jackson claiming, and deserving, top billing and Bryant stepping up. the safety group continuing their literal decade of consistent production for that position. We've got the physicality we need at the strong safety position. We get beat only when elite players make strong individual efforts and that can happen to any defense.

We do need to gain speed at LB and heavier on DE, but I'm sure Bill is on top of that.

Frankly I think it's time and past time to move Winovich to OLB, he's got the perfect body type for it and the guy just doesn't have the meat to be an elite edge rusher. I've been convinced since he was drafted that he's a born OLB and with him seeming to struggle (or at least not stand out) in his current role the time for a move seems right. That right there would help the LB unit, especially as Wino polished his game in the new role. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone, adding a highly athletic, very physical body to the LB unit where his speed plays better, and making room for a thicker body on the edge.

I like your optimism. Certainly. Barmore and Judan wete bright spots along with Duggar and Philips.

The rest of the defense are questionmarks.
Who will CB1?
Who will play CB2?
Who will play MLB? Do they need help at OLB?
Patriots need help at DE and DT.
If the Patriots play big nickel Who is that 3rd safety?

I look at this defense and I see old slow and not enough good players to rotate guys in and out of the lineup.

 

[Tunescribe]

Actually, 2.4 rounds down to 2 wins. Thanks for the clarification. After the $1.65x10^8 spent in FAcy & drafting a 1st Rd QB, it's just sad. Pretty sure Early Bird isn't happy.

Who is Early Bird?