The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[signbabybrady]

Brady may not have been Brady without Belichick … We will never know.

Brady has flat out stated he wouldn't be who he is without Bill so unless someone wants to call Brady a liar I think we definitely know.

 

[signbabybrady]

We already have an adequate sample size for that both his Cleveland days and after Brady left. Well below .500.

He’s arguably the greatest defensive coach of all time and without Brady he’s had a rough time trying to build and coach offense that can win. That’s part of his story.

Unless you're going to do some real research and adjust every coach's record taking out their best player every season then a statement like what did Bill do without Brady is not an accurate comparison.

As I've said many times his being the GOAT at both GM and HC is about the fact that he gathered more talent and did more with that talent than anyone else ever has and this fact can never be denied and takes no added research or twisting of facts. It's undeniable.

 

[Grogan1980]

Brady has flat out states he wouldn't be who he is without Bill so unless you're calling Brady a liar I think we definitely know.

I’m not calling Brady a liar obviously, I’m probably making the same argument as you actually - What I was saying was a rebuttal to the “It was all Brady” crowd…. We don’t know (and never will know) what he would have been WITHOUT Bill…We know exactly what he was WITH Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

I’m not calling Brady a liar obviously, I’m probably making the same argument as you actually - What I was saying was a rebuttal to the “It was all Brady” crowd…. We don’t know (and never will know) what he would have been WITHOUT Bill…We know exactly what he was WITH Bill.

I knew it wasn't you. And that you were just responding to someone else's BS.

 

[Grogan1980]

I just re-read you post, and see I need to work on my thread reading comprehension

 

[sb1]

Unless you're going to do some real research and adjust every coach's record taking out their best player every season then a statement like what did Bill do without Brady is not an accurate comparison.

As I've said many times his being the GOAT at both GM and HC is about the fact that he gathered more talent and did more with that talent than anyone else ever has and this fact can never be denied and takes no added research or twisting of facts. It's undeniable.

Brady wasn’t just his “best player” .

To create the 20 year run someone had to close the gap between Bill’s expertise on defense and what was needed on offense. Brady was that guy, he was the offensive savant to go with Bill on defense, that’s why he was so special and honestly can’t be compared to anyone. He was “the system”. Bill leaned on him for his offensive mind just as much as vice versa. It’s why the partnership was perfect.

The team ending its run post Brady really shouldn’t surprise anyone. The hole that he left was not just at QB.

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady wasn’t just his “best player” .

To create the 20 year run someone had to close the gap between Bill’s expertise on defense and what was needed on offense. Brady was that guy, he was the offensive savant to go with Bill on defense, that’s why he was so special and honestly can’t be compared to anyone. He was “the system”. Bill leaned on him for his offensive mind just as much as vice versa.

The team ending its run post Brady really shouldn’t surprise anyone.

Ignoring Weiss, BOB, and McDaniels.

But yes of course a defensive minded guy is going to have people on offense that he relies on same as a strong offensive coach like Reid needs Spagnola and Chris Jones to balance the scales.

 

[h0c2000]

With all this NFL coaching experience and Super Bowl pedigree Bill's bringing to UNC, anything short of a NC appearance in the next few years is a colossal failure.

 

[RobertWeathers]

With all this NFL coaching experience and Super Bowl pedigree Bill's bringing to UNC, anything short of a NC appearance in the next few years is a colossal failure.

Thats a bit much. So much needs to go right to play in the national championship game. I think not making the college playoffs is an appropriate benchmark.

Ultimately it will be Bill's ability to recruit/retain top talent which will make or break him. Both at the HS level, transfers, and keeping his own players. That comes down to making UNC a desirable destination and spending the $20m in NIL he has wisely.

 

[signbabybrady]

With all this NFL coaching experience and Super Bowl pedigree Bill's bringing to UNC, anything short of a NC appearance in the next few years is a colossal failure.

Thats a bit much. So much needs to go right to play in the national championship game. I think not making the college playoffs is an appropriate benchmark.

Ultimately it will be Bill's ability to recruit/retain top talent which will make or break him. Both at the HS level, transfers, and keeping his own players. That comes down to making UNC a desirable destination and spending the $20m in NIL he has wisely.

I think failure/collosal failure would be not getting into the playoffs or at least very close. If he had a very good season but didn't win the acc and missed the playoffs I think that could negate failure.

But we want more than just not being a failure so ultimately if this is going to actually be successful and to increase his place in history he pretty much needs a National championship or at least a very good playoff run or 2.

The length of time he stays at UNC will also matter into how this is viewed. For my above statement I'm thinking about a 5 year window. The longer he's there the more he'd need to accomplish and on the flip if he stayed long enough to actually get fired then obviously that would probably land him on the failure side.

 

[AQPE]

Post 2017 he still won a SB. Being a GM is about more than just drafting. And even then 2000-2023 was excellent drafting despite a small window that wasn't great. So what if he has a small drought.

So very true, which is why the “he drafted X when he could have drafted Y” is not really as strong an argument as people think, even though so many of us (me included) fall into doing it. Not every guy who flourishes somewhere would do the same on a different team, with different coaches, schemes, teammates, salary structures, and working environments. I think about Deion Branch as an example. If they had been able to keep him with the Pats instead of losing him, we could be talking about a HOF career given the unusually quick and strong connection he had with Brady.

Player leadership matters a lot too when it comes to getting guys integrated well. The first run had an unusually strong set of player leaders, with McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Law, Harrison, Faulk, and Troy Brown. The later run had Hightower, Slater, and McCourty. Obviously they also had the super leader in Brady.

When I reflect on what happened these past 5 seasons, in regard to BB, while the misses in the draft are undeniable IMHO, I have as much disappointment regarding how poorly he and his staff did in developing and scheming to accentuate guys, they were not nearly as good there as they had been in the championship years. Look how well they did with Reche Caldwell, Gabney, and Welker in comparison to the more recent cases of Thornton, Agholar, or Jonnu Smith. I also suspect that as the years went by, BB became too dependent on McDaniels and Scarnecchia and when they left he really struggled with their replacements. He did not have a succession plan in place when McDaniels left and thst is almost inexcusable for someone at Bill’s level. And of course most significantly he ****ed up with Brady which damaged the team both on the field and off of it. That may have been unavoidable given Brady’s off field personal turmoil and the influence of Alex Guerrero, but BB didn’t manage the situation well enough.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

I’m not calling Brady a liar obviously, I’m probably making the same argument as you actually - What I was saying was a rebuttal to the “It was all Brady” crowd…. We don’t know (and never will know) what he would have been WITHOUT Bill…We know exactly what he was WITH Bill.

Huh? We did see what he was like without bill. Let’s talk facts here. At age 43, he took a new team who had gone 7-9 the year before and WON a Super Bowl, defeating Drew Brees Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes.

Those are facts. You want another fact? Belichick without Brady has a losing record as a head coach. He was fired 4 years after Brady left. What would Belichick have been as a head coach had Brady not come along?

 

[signbabybrady]

Huh? We did see what he was like without bill. Let’s talk facts here. At age 43, he took a new team who had gone 7-9 the year before and WON a Super Bowl, defeating Drew Brees Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes.

Those are facts. You want another fact? Belichick without Brady has a losing record as a head coach. He was fired 4 years after Brady left. What would Belichick have been as a head coach had Brady not come along?

We never saw Brady without Bill. He carried everything he learned from Bill, Weiss, BOB, and McD with him to Tampa. Bottom line is we do not know what either would have accomplished without the other. There is no way to separate the 2. It adds to Brady's legacy that he got 7 and got 1 without Bill. But I think it's backwards logic to think this should somehow hurt Bill's legacy. If anything it's another very small notch on his belt.

Do you think Bill Cowher doesn't have a sense of pride that his team was able to win after he retired?

Do you think Jimmy Johnson deserves some credit for their 3rd title or is that all Barry Switzer?

Do you think Schotenheimer has some pride over the career that Brees went on to have?

Bottom line is we know exactly what Bill and Brady were able to accomplish together and I see no reason to ignore that just because of a couple of tough years with Cam and Mac.

 

[XLIX]

Brady may not have been Brady without Belichick … We will never know.

What we do know is this:

Brady played 3 years without Belichick and won a Super Bowl.

Belichick has what? 11 years as an HC without Brady (I’ve honestly lost track) and has all of 1 playoff victory.

 

[XLIX]

Thats a bit much. So much needs to go right to play in the national championship game. I think not making the college playoffs is an appropriate benchmark.

I agree the NC game is not a fair standard, but he better darn well make the playoffs.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

We never saw Brady without Bill. He carried everything he learned from Bill, Weiss, BOB, and McD with him to Tampa. Bottom line is we do not know what either would have accomplished without the other. There is no way to separate the 2. It adds to Brady's legacy that he got 7 and got 1 without Bill. But I think it's backwards logic to think this should somehow hurt Bill's legacy. If anything it's another very small notch on his belt.

Do you think Bill Cowher doesn't have a sense of pride that his team was able to win after he retired?

Do you think Jimmy Johnson deserves some credit for their 3rd title or is that all Barry Switzer?

Do you think Schotenheimer has some pride over the career that Brees went on to have?

Bottom line is we know exactly what Bill and Brady were able to accomplish together and I see no reason to ignore that just because of a couple of tough years with Cam and Mac.

What we do know is this:

Brady played 3 years without Belichick and won a Super Bowl.

Belichick has what? 11 years as an HC without Brady (I’ve honestly lost track) and has all of 1 playoff victory

Copy and pasted from a wise man

 

[sb1]

What we do know is this:

Brady played 3 years without Belichick and won a Super Bowl.

Belichick has what? 11 years as an HC without Brady (I’ve honestly lost track) and has all of 1 playoff victory

Copy and pasted from a wise man

Any damage to Bill’s legacy post Brady was self inflicted.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Any damage to Bill’s legacy post Brady was self inflicted.

Unfortunately, a true statement

 

[Huckleberry1]

Brady may not have been Brady without Belichick … We will never know.

Agree. Brady figured out Belichick in their first QB room. Belichick didn’t care about Bledsoe’s $100 million dollar deal, he (Belichick) wanted the Quarterback to make every read the same way he ( Belichick) did, and then throw the ball where he ( Belichick) wanted it thrown. Brady figured that out immediately. That’s why the story is that he told Bledsoe that he was going to take his job. Brady then studied his ass off, understood how Belichick wanted him to read every coverage, and where he wanted him to go with the ball in every situation. That’s why he ended up taking Bledsoe’s job. Belichick gave him a master class in understanding NFL defenses, and Brady absorbed every bit of it.

People used to label Brady as a “just a game manager,” but Brady then took it upon himself to learn how Belichick wanted games managed within the game, and it became his greatest strength. If the game plan was to limit Manning to as few drive opportunities as possible then Brady took the air out of the ball, coordinated long slow drives, and helped the defense achieve their game plan. If they needed to put up 35 plus Brady made quick work of drives and got that done. If they were ahead by double digits in the 2nd half he kept them on the field and killed them with Chinese water torture, and if they were down big ………28-3……….

It was the best Coach-QB pairing in history. Brady ran games the exact way Belichick wanted them run, and I have never seen anyone other duo do that. Guys like Manning were scoring machines, Brady was the coach on the field, getting it done as Belichick wanted it done. Neither would have been the GOAT without the other.

 

[Vindicate]

We never saw Brady without Bill. He carried everything he learned from Bill, Weiss, BOB, and McD with him to Tampa. Bottom line is we do not know what either would have accomplished without the other. There is no way to separate the 2. It adds to Brady's legacy that he got 7 and got 1 without Bill. But I think it's backwards logic to think this should somehow hurt Bill's legacy. If anything it's another very small notch on his belt.

Do you think Bill Cowher doesn't have a sense of pride that his team was able to win after he retired?

Do you think Jimmy Johnson deserves some credit for their 3rd title or is that all Barry Switzer?

Do you think Schotenheimer has some pride over the career that Brees went on to have?

Bottom line is we know exactly what Bill and Brady were able to accomplish together and I see no reason to ignore that just because of a couple of tough years with Cam and Mac.

I promise you if you stop responding, you can just do what most of the people do on this board when they see these posts, and laugh. It's comical at this point. Some people just get their rocks off by being contrarian, has nothing to do with reality lol.