The 2017 Mock Draft Thread

[manxman2601]

The question for me is if the margin of upgrade we get from McC over the combination of Blount + White/Lewis is worth using an early pick. I am fully aware that having McC would make our offense even more deadly because e.g. you are taking away a way to key on run/pass for the opponents. But is upgrading this aspect worth the lack of upgrades for e.g. our LBs ?

Given the relative exodus of talent (Jones, Collins, Hightower now or in a year ?) on the defensive side I kinda feel that putting our resources there would provide a bigger jump overall.

All that being said, I would love to get McC onto our team somehow..

Both Lewis and White's contracts are up after this coming season, McCaffrey would be signed for five years - McCaffrey/DJ Foster for 2018 and beyond?.

Daniel Jeremiah compared McCaffrey to Lev Bell, obviously different in terms of size, but he compared them based upon their patience in running behind their blocks. I'd also say that McCaffrey's balance is elite.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The question for me is if the margin of upgrade we get from McC over the combination of Blount + White/Lewis is worth using an early pick. I am fully aware that having McC would make our offense even more deadly because e.g. you are taking away a way to key on run/pass for the opponents. But is upgrading this aspect worth the lack of upgrades for e.g. our LBs ?

Given the relative exodus of talent (Jones, Collins, Hightower now or in a year ?) on the defensive side I kinda feel that putting our resources there would provide a bigger jump overall.

All that being said, I would love to get McC onto our team somehow..

Foster also looked impressive in the preseason (his speed/acceleration was superior to White at training camp too). He also stuck around here and declined to join another team's 53 man roster.

We may already have 3 NFL caliber receiving RBs on next year's roster.

McCaffrey would have to be a great early down RB and a potential slot WR on other downs to justify a 1st rd pick on him.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

One thing to keep in mind when talking about McCaffrey to the Pats is that his physical profile would be a stark change of direction from what they usually look for.

Look at their draft record
White 5'9 205
Vereen 5'10 210
Redmond 5'11 216
Ridley 5'11 225
Coombs 6' 223
Maroney 6' 217

Even free agents we have signed have fallen in the above ranges.

If McCaffrey is really 6' 200-205, I really can't see them drafting him as a back. If they seem him as a slot guy, then that makes it more likely. He does have tremendous versatility, but if it's truly an every down back they are looking for, I don't think they find that in McCaffrey.

Guys that fit that mould better
Kamara 6' 217
Foreman 6'1 249
Mixon 6' 226
Perine 5'10 235
Galliman 6 215
Hunt 5'10 210
Mcnichols 5'10 212
Clement 5'10 220
Hill 6' 220
Conner 6'2 240
McGuire 5'9 215
Redding 5'10 210
De Smith 510 220
I would also focus my attention on the bigger schools in bigger conferences, which leaves an even shorter list.

Kamara
Foreman
Mixon
Perine
Galliman
Conner
Redding
Clement
De Smith

That isn't to say it will definitely be one of those backs we draft, but if I was hedging my bets, I would focus on that list.

 

[manxman2601]

One thing to keep in mind when talking about McCaffrey to the Pats is that his physical profile would be a stark change of direction from what they usually look for.

Look at their draft record
White 5'9 205
Vereen 5'10 210
Redmond 5'11 216
Ridley 5'11 225
Coombs 6' 223
Maroney 6' 217

Even free agents we have signed have fallen in the above ranges.

If McCaffrey is really 6' 200-205, I really can't see them drafting him as a back. If they seem him as a slot guy, then that makes it more likely. He does have tremendous versatility, but if it's truly an every down back they are looking for, I don't think they find that in McCaffrey.

Guys that fit that mould better
Kamara 6' 217
Foreman 6'1 249
Mixon 6' 226
Perine 5'10 235
Galliman 6 215
Hunt 5'10 210
Mcnichols 5'10 212
Clement 5'10 220
Hill 6' 220
Conner 6'2 240
McGuire 5'9 215
Redding 5'10 210
De Smith 510 220
I would also focus my attention on the bigger schools in bigger conferences, which leaves an even shorter list.

Kamara
Foreman
Mixon
Perine
Galliman
Conner
Redding
Clement
De Smith

That isn't to say it will definitely be one of those backs we draft, but if I was hedging my bets, I would focus on that list.

It should be noted that until the combine, we don't know McCaffey's size. And if he's roughly the same size as White and Vereen, I don't think there's an issue.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

It should be noted that until the combine, we don't know McCaffey's size. And if he's roughly the same size as White and Vereen, I don't think there's an issue.

It's the weight to height combo that I think will be an issue.

It's one thing being 205 when you are 5'9. Quite another when you are 6'.

You are right though, it will be interesting to see what he weighs in at for the combine.

I actually think that's one of the reasons Foster sat out the senior bowl. An ilb weighing in at 225 would've given teams a lot of pause. But, a month later, 235-240 is easier to get around.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I like McCaffrey as a player. I don't love his market value in the draft, however.

 

[manxman2601]

I like McCaffrey as a player. I don't love his market value in the draft, however.

Generally or Patriots specifically?

 

[manxman2601]

It's the weight to height combo that I think will be an issue.

It's one thing being 205 when you are 5'9. Quite another when you are 6'.

You are right though, it will be interesting to see what he weighs in at for the combine.

I actually think that's one of the reasons Foster sat out the senior bowl. An ilb weighing in at 225 would've given teams a lot of pause. But, a month later, 235-240 is easier to get around.

I think McCaffrey's elite balance compensates for a centre of gravity issue though. If you haven't yet, watch Matt Waldman's analysis of McCaffrey as a runner. It's just one play so it's short. He has an insane ability to stat on his feet when he's effectively tackled in the backfield.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

I think McCaffrey's elite balance compensates for a centre of gravity issue though. If you haven't yet, watch Matt Waldman's analysis of McCaffrey as a runner. It's just one play so it's short. He has an insane ability to stat on his feet when he's effectively tackled in the backfield.

He has a great skill package that make him really interesting for us. His balance and vision are his two best qualities, similar to mixon in that regard.

But I think he's going to have to be 215-220 to stay at running back in the pros. It's just too physical a position to carry 15-25 times a game.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Generally or Patriots specifically?

For the Patriots specifically. While he has more potential as a full time back, his skill set is largely replicated by Lewis, White, and Foster. It's hard to justify a 1st rounder for that, although I'm sure he would have a good career here if we brought him in, and I wouldn't complain about the pick.

 

[long distance]

I was playing around here a little .. took what the board (somewhat different to others) gave me .. ignoring needs and likes (still long way till the end of march when things start clearing a bit)

I thought Id throw it here if something is worth a comment, debate .. since there are some different names and some usual suspects at different positions. (I took the positions offered . not entirely accurate).

32: R1P32 LB ZACH CUNNINGHAM
64: R2P32 TE JORDAN LEGGETT
96: R3P32 OT RODERICK JOHNSON
103: R3P39 QB NATHAN PETERMAN
130: R4P25 RB SAMAJE PERINE
164: R5P19 S JOHN JOHNSON
183: R5P38 EDGE DEVONTE FIELDS

There's a QB in there so that means this is in case of JG traded . which means you can add a couple of guys from rounds 1 and 2 if you want..

 

[manxman2601]

He has a great skill package that make him really interesting for us. His balance and vision are his two best qualities, similar to mixon in that regard.

But I think he's going to have to be 215-220 to stay at running back in the pros. It's just too physical a position to carry 15-25 times a game.

I think it's better to think of him in terms of 15-20 touches per game rather than carries. I don't think he should be pigeon-holed as a runner.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

I think it's better to think of him in terms of 15-20 touches per game rather than carries. I don't think he should be pigeon-holed as a runner.

I agree with that, but does bring me back to my concern about his current fit in our team. If it's partly planning for next offseason when white and Lewis are up, you might have just spent a first on a kick returner.

I just don't see how he gets on the field til year two with us, unless Lewis knee is already done. And while I think it's good to plan this far out, the cost associated with drafting him makes the return of investment pretty small.

Again, I love the player, but at 32 (or top 15) I think there will be far better value to the Pats at corner or safety. Possibly DE if one of the Bama guys or Taco are available.

 

[manxman2601]

For the Patriots specifically. While he has more potential as a full time back, his skill set is largely replicated by Lewis, White, and Foster. It's hard to justify a 1st rounder for that, although I'm sure he would have a good career here if we brought him in, and I wouldn't complain about the pick.

I agree that on the face of it it's not the best value. But:

1. There have been few prospects that look like such an obvious fit for what BB likes from his draft picks in terms of character.
2. The contracts of Lewis and White are up this year.
3. Lewis can not be relied upon for a full season.
4. With extra pick (s) coming from a JG trade, he could be considered a luxury pick.

I don't disagree that the value could be questioned, but I do think a logical case can be made for him too. A lot will depend on FA and what happens at LB and DE.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree with that, but does bring me back to my concern about his current fit in our team. If it's partly planning for next offseason when white and Lewis are up, you might have just spent a first on a kick returner.

I just don't see how he gets on the field til year two with us, unless Lewis knee is already done. And while I think it's good to plan this far out, the cost associated with drafting him makes the return of investment pretty small.

Again, I love the player, but at 32 (or top 15) I think there will be far better value to the Pats at corner or safety. Possibly DE if one of the Bama guys or Taco are available.

Didn't Solder play as a 3rd TE in year one? And as I said to Reamer, it's unfortunately unrealistic to think Dion Lewis goes all the way through a season. He'd get his snaps.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Didn't Solder play as a 3rd TE in year one? And as I said to Reamer, it's unfortunately unrealistic to think Dion Lewis goes all the way through a season. He'd get his snaps.

Fair enough.

He's not off my board by any means, but I am betting we can get a back in rd 2-4 that gives equal output or better.

 

[manxman2601]

Fair enough.

He's not off my board by any means, but I am betting we can get a back in rd 2-4 that gives equal output or better.

Maybe. I haven't really seen anyone that I think offer the same level of output in all four phases of the game (running, catching, returning, blocking) except maybe Kareem Hunt sans the returning. I'm not a fan of Samuels' body catching. I do like Matt Dayes though. Personally I think McCaffrey can be everything David Johnson is.

 

[luuked]

I actually think that's one of the reasons Foster sat out the senior bowl. An ilb weighing in at 225 would've given teams a lot of pause. But, a month later, 235-240 is easier to get around.

I honestly wonder if most teams don't have inside information on most of the measurables anyway. I mean there should be many people that knows them in his college facility and I would be shocked if pro teams can't find someone to leak.

 

[luuked]

For the Patriots specifically. While he has more potential as a full time back, his skill set is largely replicated by Lewis, White, and Foster. It's hard to justify a 1st rounder for that, although I'm sure he would have a good career here if we brought him in, and I wouldn't complain about the pick.

I think you put it more eloquently than I could. But that's pretty much my position as well. Unfortunately.. gotta hope that @manxman2601 is wrong in his Bell comparison if he ends up somewhere else..

 

[manxman2601]

I honestly wonder if most teams don't have inside information on most of the measurables anyway. I mean there should be many people that knows them in his college facility and I would be shocked if pro teams can't find someone to leak.

I think they all get measured at the start of a season anyway which scouts will get the information on.