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The 2012 Combine Thread


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Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Yeah obviously wing back was high on our list last year. I mean, we only have the best "wing back" TE in the game. Heck, let's try and get the top 2. **** it! Let's make it three! While we're at it, let's grab another HOF QB and a few Pro Bowl OTs. Stock up every where!

We don't have a team if we field 53 wing backs.

Yeah, we didn't miss Gronkowski during the Super Bowl at ALL, DID we?? :rolleyes:

Ever heard of DEPTH, Junior?? :bricks:
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Yeah, we didn't miss Gronkowski during the Super Bowl at ALL, DID we?? :rolleyes:

Ever heard of DEPTH, Junior?? :bricks:

To be fair, though, "depth" has many forms, with Coby Fleener being one of the more expensive ones.

And it's not like BB didn't bring in TEs last year at all. . . .
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Coach B BLEW it.

This year's Crop of Wing Backs is DRY.

LAST year's Crop was LUSCIOUS.

~ Lance Kendricks
~ Jordan Cameron
~ Julius Thomas
~ Brett Brackett


There is PRECIOUS little to choose from, THIS year, now that everybody's ONTO Tight Ends...

...Which of course makes the current barren crop even MORE expensive!! :mad:

Yeah obviously wing back was high on our list last year. I mean, we only have the best "wing back" TE in the game. Heck, let's try and get the top 2. **** it! Let's make it three! While we're at it, let's grab another HOF QB and a few Pro Bowl OTs. Stock up every where!

We don't have a team if we field 53 wing backs.

Yeah, we didn't miss Gronkowski during the Super Bowl at ALL, DID we?? :rolleyes:

Ever heard of DEPTH, Junior?? :bricks:

To be fair, though, "depth" has many forms, with Coby Fleener being one of the more expensive ones.

And it's not like BB didn't bring in TEs last year at all. . . .

There's nothing even remotely "fair" about your comment.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue that we don't need more Wing Backs.

But to attack the idea with sarcasm and derision, as Junior did, is as pathetic and ignorant as it is despicable.

And to defend him should be beneath you.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I don't mean to harsh out on you, Brother Conn Fan.

All I was saying ~ quite clearly ~ was that last year's Crop was FAR richer in Wing Backs than this year's Crop...and Coach B drafted NONE.

ZERO.

Not the end of the world: Just an Opportunity I wished he'd taken advantage of.

And Junior was simply out'f line to dump sarcasm and vitriol on me...and I called him on it, is all.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY do we even need the services of the almighty Coby Fleener?

Well for one, he might be the best player on the board and no-one willing to trade up. The pickings are drying up towards the bottom of the first - it's not impossible to believe that Fleener is the BPA at #31. We also have Gronknandez out of contract in two years and it's unlikely we'll resign them both with Finley's new benchmark. So getting a quality backup, situational player in who gets two years to learn the system before he becomes a starter. It's not my chosen route (more willing with Orson Charles in the second) but there might not be anyone else there worth it.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Last year, the type of TE required was one that could block first, catch second. That's why we took Lee Smith and signed Will Yeatman as a UDFA.

If you want a catching TE (which we REALLY don't need), then the Green kid out of ULL is worth a punt. But it would be a waste, we do need a third TE, but one that can block. Don't forget we have Dorin ****erson on the PS who is by all accounts, very highly thought of.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

If you want a catching TE (which we REALLY don't need), then the Green kid out of ULL is worth a punt. But it would be a waste, we do need a third TE, but one that can block. Don't forget we have Dorin ****erson on the PS who is by all accounts, very highly thought of.

Yes, Gronk's injury showed that Pats don't need another catching TE.

Pats use heavily the 2TE formation and there is nobody close to them in skills to back them up, but hey, they don't need another catching TE. :bricks:
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

The pats have Much greater areas of need than TE. Spending Another First round pick on a TE when your Defensive front Seven (especially D-line) or Safety is Absurd. It would be a wast of a pick, and BB will most likely trade the Second of the Two Firsts. So in essence you'd be spending our only first rounder on an area of strength.
It makes No sense to spend a First rnd pick on a player that would spend Most of his time on the bench.
 
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Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Yes, Gronk's injury showed that Pats don't need another catching TE.

Pats use heavily the 2TE formation and there is nobody close to them in skills to back them up, but hey, they don't need another catching TE. :bricks:

The 2 TE formation works because you don't know whether the TE's will be blocking or running a route. Do you genuinely believe the bluff would still work if the two TE's plainly can't block?

Dude, get a clue.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Reflex, I don't think people are saying that we should spend a first round pick there, but we certainly should be looking to Draft someone to play the position. I personally believe that one of Smith or Yeatman will be available in the summer and we'll bring them back, but don't be shocked if we spend a middle or late round pick on a Tight End.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Reflex, I don't think people are saying that we should spend a first round pick there, but we certainly should be looking to Draft someone to play the position. I personally believe that one of Smith or Yeatman will be available in the summer and we'll bring them back, but don't be shocked if we spend a middle or late round pick on a Tight End.
I could see spending a middle or late round pick on a TE. But after perusing some of the draft threads i got the impression there is/was a group of posters that wanted to draft Fleener. I believe it would take a first rounder to acquire him. A first rounder on a WR (deep threat) C, DL OLB OR S but not at TE
 
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Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Cool, no worries dude. And I agree. I love Fleener, but his price will be too high, unless we can turn one of those first rounders into the mother load of draft picks.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I could see spending a middle or late round pick on a TE. But after perusing some of the draft threads i got the impression there is/was a group of posters that wanted to draft Fleener. I believe it would take a first rounder to acquire him. A first rounder on a WR (deep threat) C, DL OLB OR S but not at TE

Firstly, I'm not an advocate of drafting Fleener in the first but am open to the possibility. So let's look at your objections objectively.

1. One cannot automatically assume that the Patriots will be able to trade out of the first round. Last year was a bit of an exception because a)the lock-out and teams needing to fill needs owing to the uncertainty and 2) Mark Ingram was comfortably seen as the best in class at his position last year and a potential offensive playmaker. Unless it's Tannehill, there's no-one I can see where we are picking that a team should be willing to give up a 2013 first rounder for. So that probably means we'll simply be trading back from #31 and if it's not too far, then the same conditions exist anyway - do we draft Fleener?

2. Let's look at who's available at the positions you noted:

WR Rueben Randle, Mohamed Sanu, Alshon Jeffrey

Randle's starting to get some first round love, I can easily see Jeffrey being off BB's board and I wonder whether Sanu, who is raw, would be rated ahead of Fleener on the Patriots board.

DL Assuming a return to a predominantly 3-4 look, who will be available? Fletcher Cox - doubt it. Devon Still - looking incrasingly more likely but still a push. There's no-one else that can really be considered a fit for the Pats at that point.

OC Peter Konz and that's it. First round value for BB? Maybe but I'm not convinced and he'll probably go to the Ravens or Packers anyway.

OLB OK, better choices here. Vinny Curry, Chandler Jones and Andre Branch. Quick question. How many first round OLB's has BB taken? Yeah. Maybe not better choices after all.

S Only one choice again, Mark Barron. Personally if he's on the board at #27, I think the Patriots take him (I know others disagree). Yes he could be an option at 31, but there's a lot of teams needing safeties. Barron could easily be gone.

You could throw in Stephon Gilmore or Chase Minnifield but are you absolutely sure BB would have them higher on the board than Fleener?

Fleener is bordering on a can't miss prospect with high upside, I think the Pats will have him graded out pretty high and as it's quite likely that any graded higher by the Pats might be gone and a trade down/out can't be guaranteed, logically a Fleener pick at #31 is not something that can be so easily dismissed. And as I pointed out upthread, in two years time we'll possibly be losing one of our TE's (most likely Hernandez) and Fleener would be a pretty good replacement. Why not have him learning the system and getting a head start.

It's not my preferred choice but I don't think it's a terrible option.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Firstly, I'm not an advocate of drafting Fleener in the first but am open to the possibility. So let's look at your objections objectively.

1. One cannot automatically assume that the Patriots will be able to trade out of the first round. Last year was a bit of an exception because a)the lock-out and teams needing to fill needs owing to the uncertainty and 2) Mark Ingram was comfortably seen as the best in class at his position last year and a potential offensive playmaker. Unless it's Tannehill, there's no-one I can see where we are picking that a team should be willing to give up a 2013 first rounder for. So that probably means we'll simply be trading back from #31 and if it's not too far, then the same conditions exist anyway - do we draft Fleener?

2. Let's look at who's available at the positions you noted:

WR Rueben Randle, Mohamed Sanu, Alshon Jeffrey

Randle's starting to get some first round love, I can easily see Jeffrey being off BB's board and I wonder whether Sanu, who is raw, would be rated ahead of Fleener on the Patriots board.

DL Assuming a return to a predominantly 3-4 look, who will be available? Fletcher Cox - doubt it. Devon Still - looking incrasingly more likely but still a push. There's no-one else that can really be considered a fit for the Pats at that point.

OC Peter Konz and that's it. First round value for BB? Maybe but I'm not convinced and he'll probably go to the Ravens or Packers anyway.

OLB OK, better choices here. Vinny Curry, Chandler Jones and Andre Branch. Quick question. How many first round OLB's has BB taken? Yeah. Maybe not better choices after all.

S Only one choice again, Mark Barron. Personally if he's on the board at #27, I think the Patriots take him (I know others disagree). Yes he could be an option at 31, but there's a lot of teams needing safeties. Barron could easily be gone.

You could throw in Stephon Gilmore or Chase Minnifield but are you absolutely sure BB would have them higher on the board than Fleener?

Fleener is bordering on a can't miss prospect with high upside, I think the Pats will have him graded out pretty high and as it's quite likely that any graded higher by the Pats might be gone and a trade down/out can't be guaranteed, logically a Fleener pick at #31 is not something that can be so easily dismissed. And as I pointed out upthread, in two years time we'll possibly be losing one of our TE's (most likely Hernandez) and Fleener would be a pretty good replacement. Why not have him learning the system and getting a head start.

It's not my preferred choice but I don't think it's a terrible option.

A couple of things. First, I wouldn't have Fleener rated ahead of any of those players you name. Personally I don't think he is anywhere near worthy of a 1st round pick. I'm probably lower on him than most around here, but I don't think he is in the top 31 players in the draft. I don't think he is even in the top 48. When you add in his rising market value due to the growing demand for TE's in the league, than I don't think Fleener could be considered a value pick for the Pats.

Second, even if he is the highest rated player on the board, it doesn't mean the Pats would take him. I think TE would be considered a position of low need, so even if they rate players close to him, they would likely take the position of greater need. I would have to think the Mallet was rated higher than Vereen last year considering he was their top rated QB in the draft, but QB was a low position of need so Mallet needed to be very good value for the Pats to pick him. Similarly I would think they would need Fleener to fall further than where he should be drafted in order for him to be good value. If the Pats simply drafted best player available he might be an option, but like every other team they also have to take needs into consideration.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Last year, the type of TE required was one that could block first, catch second.

That's why we took Lee Smith and signed Will Yeatman as a UDFA.

Oh, really??

Then why did "we" CUT both of them?? :rolleyes:

If you want a catching TE (which we REALLY don't need), then the Green kid out of ULL is worth a punt. But it would be a waste, we do need a third TE, but one that can block. Don't forget we have Dorin ****erson on the PS who is by all accounts, very highly thought of.

Green is worth no punt.

If you don't think we need someone who can step in and pick up the slack if Gronk or Aaron The Navigator go down before ~ oh, shall we say: The Super BOWL???? :rolleyes: ~ then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I've been pounding the table on Coby Fleener since NAM...

But it doesn't necessarily mean I'd expend a 1st on him.

But it IS a reasonable option, depending on circumstances.

But anyone thinking we'd draft a player of his dynamics for DEPTH is completely missing the point.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

A couple of things. First, I wouldn't have Fleener rated ahead of any of those players you name. Personally I don't think he is anywhere near worthy of a 1st round pick. I'm probably lower on him than most around here, but I don't think he is in the top 31 players in the draft. I don't think he is even in the top 48. When you add in his rising market value due to the growing demand for TE's in the league, than I don't think Fleener could be considered a value pick for the Pats.

Second, even if he is the highest rated player on the board, it doesn't mean the Pats would take him. I think TE would be considered a position of low need, so even if they rate players close to him, they would likely take the position of greater need. I would have to think the Mallet was rated higher than Vereen last year considering he was their top rated QB in the draft, but QB was a low position of need so Mallet needed to be very good value for the Pats to pick him. Similarly I would think they would need Fleener to fall further than where he should be drafted in order for him to be good value. If the Pats simply drafted best player available he might be an option, but like every other team they also have to take needs into consideration.

All very good points my Aussie friend. however...

You say Fleener is not one of the top 48 players in the draft. OK, I can see that. Now subtract all the players for which we have no need whatsoever - Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden etc. Now subtract those players which do not fit the Patriot yardstick for size etc. Now subtract or demote those players which have serious red flags. can you say hand on heart that those subtractions don't amount to at least seventeen. I could come up with seventeen players that I don't think fit the Patriots in a heartbeat that might generically be ranked ahead of Fleener.

I agree with you on the value side of things to a degree but look who Fleener might be clumped together with at 31. Brandon Thompson, Lamar Miller, Zach Brown (sorry about that), Vontaze Burfict (shudder), Dont'a Hightower (sniff). All these are players that probably have less value to the Patriots than Fleener.

the intellectual exercise of this discussion is fun, but my only point is that it is foolish to absolutely dismiss the idea when BB drafts so unpredictably in the limited minds of us mere mortals.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

OTG - they were cut firstly because of the worries over the O-line, and secondly because we weren't expecting either to get picked up and would be able to either stash them on the PS, or bring one back a week or two in to the season when things had settled down.

It's not a coincidence that both of those guys were blockers who could catch. Rather than the other way around.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Looking through the WR stats, I see two guys liked around here did pretty well yesterday - Ryan Broyles posted 21 reps on the bench (joint second highest of the receivers), and Chris Givens posted a respectable 19. Both are less than six feet tall too.
 
Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Sorry, I apologise, joint third highest, missed that Jerrell Jackson posted 22 reps.
 
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