Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by VrabelJr, Jan 20, 2019.
That was a blatant pick play. We never get calls so I’m used to it
Long story short; the Pats do the same thing & the play stands (as it should):
I kind of skimmed the video so excuse me if I get this wrong, but isn’t the key difference that the Patriots example vs. the Saints was within a yard (legal), or somewhere close to the line of scrimmage? The Chiefs appeared to be doing this like 5-10 yards downfield (illegal).
I don't really care about the entire video explanation either, just the play itself...but yes, the rule allows WRs one yard for contact.
But my point is both pick-plays were not very different; both were over 1 yard & neither were flagged because Refs really aren't going call it when the DB getting picked was lined up directly on the LOS and the WR pick is made immediately.
Patriots were on the 13 and contact is made just short of the 11.
Chiefs were on the 40 yard-line & I count 3 yards upon contact.
Also, the KC pick wasn't 5 to 10 yards deep. It just looks that way because JC Jackson tried to play his WR, never saw the pick coming & wrapped the receiver upon contact until both went to the ground (not to mention McCourtey adding to the contact, too).
See the arms wrapped?
The contact was just shy of a yard if anything.
You're trying to frame a legal play as if it wasn't, ignoring that the refs almost flagged it anyways, and are pretending that 3 yards is comparable to just barely over 1 (really <1).
If this was common find another case of a receiver trucking a DB 3 yards downfield.
I rarely see someone going through all the trouble of grabbing All22 film and then straight ignore what it is showing.
You have one pick that happened close to that mythical 1 yard from the LOS and another pick that happens 3-4 yards away. That is the difference between a CB slightly tugging a WR in coverage vs. taking his arm and pulling him to the ground.
One is blatant PI the other in most cases a judgement call.
That's funny because I'd argue the same thing about everyone else complaining over this one KC pick-play; nit-picking one play to the technical letter of the law; all the while completely ignoring every other pick-play that happens in the NFL on a regular basis & seeing how it's not that bad.
So, to point this out, I went on you tube & within 5 mins not only found a pick-play...but one by the Patriots against the Saints, at that. That too, was also beyond one yard. Refs let it slide, as usual. That's my entire point. Not good enough?
Ok, Go on you tube & and search for yourself. Not even "illegal" or "bad" pick-plays, just pick plays. You'll see of stuff way worse than what KC did.
Hey look! I found a far, far more egregious pick-play from Indy, below, on a video thats simply tying to explain the passing concept. That's how common it is.
Do this again and again, or watch on gamepass, and you'll get a much better sense of context & see that the KC play wasn't nearly as bad as you guys seem to think it was (and again, a good chunk of the over-reaction was because JC Jackson wrapped the WR and made the contact look worse than it was).
There is a difference between "past 1 yard" and "3 yards past the LOS". I generally cut the refs some slack if they miss things by like half a yard because they have multiple things to look at. But a pick 3-4 yards down the field is as blatant as the PI of the Rams against the Saints.
It being common doesn't mean that it is correct according to the rules. And BBs reaction to that tells you all you need to know. How often to you see him reacting like that to close decisions ?
No joke. Thank you for acknowledging it was only 3 yards (as opposed to 10).
3 yards is nothing. Seriously. Go look up "mesh" or "mesh wheel" on you tube and you'll see it happen often.
Really, please don't do this....
I'll repeat: "a good chunk of the over-reaction was because JC Jackson wrapped the WR and made the contact look worse than it was." I'd say that applies to Bill, too.
Why ? It is not even a hyperbole. Both cases were absolutely blatant PIs for completely different reasons.
This is not how it works. He also didn't make the contact look worse than it was. You are making it sound like Jackson ran on purpose into the opponent if exactly the opposite is true. Look at your own film. It is right there.
Seriously.. you are fighting a losing battle if your argument is that "this is common" or "Jackson exaggerated the contact". Both takes are irrelevant in the face of the rulebook.
If this contact happens around 1-1.5 yards I am with you. But not at 3 yards deep.
I never said, or inferred, Jackson "ran on purpose into the opponent" or "Jackson exaggerated the contact" or did anything intentionally. I simply said Jackson wrapped his arms around the WR upon contact and that's what made the pick look worse than it was.
I'm looking. I clearly see Jackson wrapping his arms around the WR.
Hey, remember that video on the Indy pick-play? (that you conveniently chose not to directly address).
Well, I simply clicked You Tube's "Up Next" button....and @ 3:00:
Really? You think 2 jet defenders running into each other is an illegal pick by the colts?
That’s not an illegal pick in the eagles. The receiver is running a route and the defender runs into him.
I don’t think you understand what opi on a pick play is.
But right after that you see the same WR run into a 3rd Jet defender and clearly re-direct him; that is a blatant pick.
Except I never said it was illegal. I'm saying it's a grey-area that refs rarely call. That's my argument for the KC pick, too. (The Indy pick, however, was blatant & even that doesn't get called)
Except you are conveniently ignoring the key point; that receiver's route is entirely designed to "pick" the defender. The same is true of the slant that KC ran to pick JC Jackson.
They collided. That’s definitely not opi. It’s incidental contact. Way, way different than the chief play.
You can’t call a penalty intent. It is absolutely legal to run a pattern that entices the defender to run into you. The receiver would have to alter his pattern to throw a block and he didn’t do that at all.
I wholeheartedly disagree on the Indy play.
It’s not opi when a defender runs into a receiver running his route.
You mean like this? @ 3:34
Also, I'm really not disagreeing with your points, either. It's just that that same points must be applied to the slant that KC called to pick JC Jackson, too. KC rant a slant. The WR didn't alter anything. He didn't throw a block, either. They collided. WRs get away with worse, like the above video.^
I do appreciate your football knowledge.
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