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Suprise, suprise, suprise - Chip Kelly wants to leave the Eagles


Giants - 2 Super Bowls since 2005
Steelers - 2 Super Bowls since 2005
Packers - 1 Super Bowl since 2005
Ravens - 1 Super Bowl since 2005
Colts - 1 Super Bowl since 2005

Even granting the notion that Payton calls the personnel shots, that still leaves 7 of the last 9 Super Bowl winning teams that have won with a split GM/HC system that does not have the coach making the final decisions.

The traditional system is employed in 88% of NFL teams (assuming Payton has final say), but it has won 78% of the last 9 Super Bowls (and 65% if you extend to the 2000 season). While this is certainly a small sample, at the very least it doesn't show any large advantage with the traditional set up. I think that ratio is consistent over the time frame we're looking at; BOB just obtained control, but before that Mike Shanahan had final say in both Washington and Denver. Point is, I don't think your measure really helps boost the case for the traditional set up.
 
Damn you Deus for injecting facts into what was a compelling narrative!

Facts aren't helpful if they don't have proper context and are misinterpreted. Otherwise you can wind up with arguments like, "0 Super Bowls since Spygate!!1!"
 
Facts aren't helpful if they don't have proper context and are misinterpreted. Otherwise you can wind up with arguments like, "0 Super Bowls since Spygate!!1!"

Fascinating that you don't see the irony of such a post, particularly after posting

The traditional system is employed in 88% of NFL teams (assuming Payton has final say), but it has won 78% of the last 9 Super Bowls (and 65% if you extend to the 2000 season). While this is certainly a small sample, at the very least it doesn't show any large advantage with the traditional set up. I think that ratio is consistent over the time frame we're looking at; BOB just obtained control, but before that Mike Shanahan had final say in both Washington and Denver. Point is, I don't think your measure really helps boost the case for the traditional set up.

I mean, the irony is so thick that it's dripping off the freaking internet.

The FACT is that your ASSERTION was a poor one that clearly wasn't thought out. Your RESPONSE to an easy REBUTTAL was to then make a FACT claim that's completely without the necessary CONTEXT (which would include such things as explanations of why specific coaches had the final say).

And, yeah, my measure really helps the case for the traditional set up.
 
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Fascinating that you don't see the irony of such a post, particularly after posting



I mean, the irony is so thick that it's dripping off the freaking internet.

The FACT is that your ASSERTION was a poor one that clearly wasn't thought out. Your RESPONSE to an easy REBUTTAL was to then make a FACT claim that's completely without the necessary CONTEXT.

And, yeah, my measure really helps the case for the traditional set up.

Excuse me? Maybe I'm not communicating clearly.

If 88% of the teams use the traditional set up, then one would "expect" 88% of the Super Bowls to be won by those teams, assuming complete independence (more on this later). Depending on the timeframe used, we're actually seeing 65% to 78%.

Similarly, 12% of the teams use my proposed methodology. Depending on the timeframe used, we're seeing them win 22% to 35% of the Superbowls compared to the "expected" 12% (about 2 to 3 times more often).

Now, I'm using the "expected" in quotes because we know independence isn't the case. There's some anti-selection in place - meaning that in theory, only the best-of-the-best coaches currently have the final say. Therefore, one should actually expect their results to be better than "expected" under the independence assumption. Indeed, that is what we are seeing here.

If we were seeing the final-say coaches have a winning percentage less than or in the neighborhood of the "expected" value, then we could possibly conclude that the current system is better (if we agree it's an accurate metric). But thst's not what we're seeing. That said, we can't conclude anything further than that because of the anti-selection issues. We would need to either use some other measurement thst could be appropriate, or wait for a world where the percentage of coaches with final say is closer to 50% to measure using this statistic.

My contention is that the coach having final say is a better system, but there are very limited examples of it in real life so it's just speculation on my part. I would obviously need to prove it, but it's hard to prove something that isn't really seen in real life. Nevertheless, the limited existing data does not do anything to prove my contention incorrect. I could very well be incorrect and the current system is the most effective, but nothing posted so far has done so. But I do want to make it perfectly clear that my hypothesis is just speculation based on my narrative - but so are all new ideas - and that I would need to see more data appear to effectively prove or disprove it.
 
@Deus Irae -- just to follow up, you use the phrase "your assertion". Maybe I was a bit too strong in my original post - i would really just call it a pet theory of mine. Since I'm making this claim, I know the burden of proof is on me to prove it. I freely admit I don't have the data to prove it - only because there are limited examples. That said, my point in my initial response to you is that i don't believe your data disproves my theory at all. But I know I haven't proven my theory - and I know i won't until\unless the day comes when more owners go down this path.
 
He's not leaving now, Friday was his big reward. Coach, all player decisions and draft.
 
I heard they made him the GM also is that true ? and if so maybe that's why he was saying he wanted to go so he could get the GM job as well,
 
Were I an owner I would vastly prefer having a single point of control football person. Better things to do in life than referee squabbles and constantly be in exec turnover search mode with a sideline business (football) that is supposed to be a source of some enjoyment.

Unfortunately, the people demonstrably capable of executing such football responsibilities are few.
 
I don't think I would ever want to hire a college coach who had no NFL head coaching experience. The track record isn't good for one and second, they often don't play well within an NFL power structure. This year alone, we've already had Harbaugh and Marrone ditch their NFL jobs. That's what college coaches do. They always look for the next big payday or somewhere that will stroke their ego.
 


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