Super in depth article on Bill's drafting history

[203Pat]

Sure he was. It was a great selection, but a mistake to trade him.

You're conflating two separate things. You can make a great draft pick and then make a foolish trade.

I’m not the one conflating things. It really couldn’t be any more simple. A team can draft a great player but if that player isn’t great for the team that drafted him then it’s not a great pick.

 

[amfootball]

I don't know what Bill expected to happen. He traded Brissett before week one and he waited another 2 months to trade Jimmy. Brady was coming off a near MVP season and super bowl win. Not sure why Bill didn't re-up Brady then and trade Garoppolo before the season. Bill just flat out mismanaged that whole situation.

Yeah. That is when everything took a nose-dive combined with the Butler benching in the SB and his interference with Guerrero on top. Hanging on to Jimmy in that situation was just asinine as well as not extending Brady. It is still amazing to me that we won the SB in 2018.

 

[ashley]

No one is not recognizing the last 20 years but analyzing where we are today and why.

Our dynasty lasted 20 years, were you expecting it to last 50 years? I'd say that's pretty good. Wish you would have been more of a participant on this board the last few years.

 

[ashley]

Yeah Bill saying we screwed the cap to win is such frickin BS. As if Tom was being paid some crazy money to win. Reality is Top never got top dollar. And Bill whiffed badly in both draft and FA

If Bill doesnt bring in Trent Brown, Van Noy, J. Mccourty, J Collins just to name a few, we don't win as many Super Bowls. Those are all great pickups.

 

[borg]

If Bill doesnt bring in Trent Brown, Van Noy, J. Mccourty, J Collins just to name a few, we don't win as many Super Bowls. Those are all great pickups.

Gilmore

 

[ashley]

Gilmore

Thanks Borg! I forgot about Gilmore.

 

[Gumby]

Our entire CB system was revamped by McDaniels in 2004 and Belichick ditched his old DB scouting system. This is why we only hit on undrafted FA's now like JC Jackson or Malcolm Butler or trade via Revis or Gilmore. Happy to cite the Wickersham article about McDaniels' awesome DB scouting system that the Pats use now.

.

I thought that was the wr scouting system??

please do provide that link,I would enjoy the read

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I thought that was the wr scouting system??

please do provide that link,I would enjoy the read

Why we suck so bad at drafting WRs and CBs:

"When McDaniels and Caserio were tasked with scouting New England's opposing receivers and corners, they took it further, creating a formula for size, speed, ball skills, scheme and assignments. Then they developed a ranking system based on the Patriots' personnel and playbook. Impressed, Belichick ditched his manual for scouting receivers and corners, replacing it with what he'd learned."

IT TAKES A GENIUS

A LOT OF NFL OWNERS LIKE TO PLUCK BRANCHES OFF BILL BELICHICK'S COACHING TREE. IF ONLY HIS SAPLINGS GREW SO MIGHTY.

www.espn.com

 

[jmt57]

that’s a franchise QB! Trade him for a first round pick or a stud in return. instead Of a bag of marbles! How do you give up a second for saNO and not het higher value for Jimmy?

Jimmy G was about to become a free agent. That depressed his trade value immensely. Same holds true for any player that is about to become a free agent.

Trading for Sanu was a desperation move. The Pats had no leverage due to their position at that time at the WR position. Every potential trade partner held the upper had in trade negotiations.

It is somewhat similar to the situation in 2010 when the Patriots traded Laurence Maroney. The Pats had an abundance of RBs. The top three Denver running backs were all injured. In this case the Pats got something for somebody who was nothing more than insurance at that point, who was never even going to be a game day active unless another RB was injured.

 

[Ivan]

We didn’t thought. Bill has been doing the same thing the last 5 years as he did for the first 15 years. The only difference is that he drafted poorly the last 5 years forcing him to overpay for mid level veteran.

Now that Brady isn’t there people start to analyze more in depth Bill’s action the last 5 years and what got us here. What got us here is a mismanagement of the roster and most importantly the QB position.

Agree completely, Steve Young was totally available and f*cking Belichick just passed him over. I’m still pissed, it’s been almost two years without a Lombardi, f’ing ******** if you ask me.

 

[ivanvamp]

I’m not the one conflating things. It really couldn’t be any more simple. A team can draft a great player but if that player isn’t great for the team that drafted him then it’s not a great pick.

That's conflating two things, yes. The pick, and then what happened subsequently in a different roster move. It's one thing to draft a player that turned out to be awful. It's another thing to draft a player who turned out to be great, but you made a SEPARATE decision after a year or two to trade him and he spent the rest of his career with another franchise.

In the first case, you made a bad draft pick. In the second case, you made a good draft pick and then made a bad (depending on the return) trade of what was a good draft pick.

Like you said...this really is pretty simple. Favre was a really good draft pick for the Falcons. They then made a really bad trade of a really good draft pick.

JG was a good solid draft pick for the Patriots, even though he took A DIFFERENT TEAM to the Super Bowl.

 

[crawhammer]

The Patriots (or Belichick's... however you want to characterize it) drafts have been collectively bad for multiple consecutive seasons. It contributed to Brady's departure and it's in large part the reason why unless they find another franchise quarterback (fast!) they're going to be no better than mediocre for the next 2-3 years at least. Upon Brady's exit, they were immediately looking way up at the Bills (in terms of roster talent).

People forget too their Dynasty 1.0 had many core defensive pieces in place upon Belichick's arrival... Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Tedy Bruschi, Ted Johnson, etc. Also, Rodney Harrison was a veteran all-pro SS when he came to NE.

Pretty much all of their Dynasty 2.0 DB's came by way of trade or FA... Talib, Revis, Browner, Gilmore. Even Butler was a rookie FA flier that worked out until Belichick asininely shut him out in SB 52.

 

[203Pat]

That's conflating two things, yes. The pick, and then what happened subsequently in a different roster move. It's one thing to draft a player that turned out to be awful. It's another thing to draft a player who turned out to be great, but you made a SEPARATE decision after a year or two to trade him and he spent the rest of his career with another franchise.

In the first case, you made a bad draft pick. In the second case, you made a good draft pick and then made a bad (depending on the return) trade of what was a good draft pick.

Like you said...this really is pretty simple. Favre was a really good draft pick for the Falcons. They then made a really bad trade of a really good draft pick.

JG was a good solid draft pick for the Patriots, even though he took A DIFFERENT TEAM to the Super Bowl.

You’ve found a way to give Bill credit for another player on another team going to the super bowl. Congrats. It was a home run pick then.

 

[crawhammer]

JG was a good solid draft pick for the Patriots, even though he took A DIFFERENT TEAM to the Super Bowl.

Not really a good draft pick at all. We got nothing out of him or for him. He also gagged bigtime in the SB. And he's too fragile to survive in the NFL.

 

[TheRainMaker]

JG was a bizarre pick in 2014. Brady showed no signs of decline prior to that so it was pointless to take him when they should've take a damn WR! Marquise Lee was my first choice, but he turned out to be a bust. Allen Robinson was my 2nd choice which they could've easily leapfrogged Jacksonville for. They got one win out of him and a halftime lead before he exited stage left with a boo boo. They traded him for a higher 2nd round pick which turned into another horrible DB in Duke Dawson. High fives all around!

At least this wasn't as bad as taking Kevin O'Connell in the 3rd round of the 2008 Draft. What a waste of a pick.

 

[ivanvamp]

You’ve found a way to give Bill credit for another player on another team going to the super bowl. Congrats. It was a home run pick then.

Bill gets credit for the pick. He gets criticism (some) for trading away a good draft pick.

 

[ivanvamp]

Not really a good draft pick at all. We got nothing out of him or for him. He also gagged bigtime in the SB. And he's too fragile to survive in the NFL.

They got a quality backup QB (which they needed) and a potential heir apparent on a rookie contract. His arrival also (some argue) had the effect of spurring Brady to play better (same thing has happened in GB this year). Then when Brady played better than people thought he would and lasted longer, it was time to do something with JG, so BB kept Brady (the right move) and traded JG for a 2nd round pick. I'd like to have seen more by way of a return (which is why there can be some criticism of him for that), but that's a DIFFERENT ISSUE as to whether he was a good draft pick.

He was a good pick.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Bb the GM appears much better at bringing in veterans and getting them to out perform what they did at previous teams.

Now we just need him to draft smarter and quit trying to outsmart the draftniks and pick the best players on his board!

bb the GM has an incredible track record with undrafted free agents, but for the past five years or so has wasted second round draft picks on bad defensive backs.

bb the GM fixes the drafting and finds a franchise qb and we are gold again,

 

[yukon cornelius]

i really think many of the issues were brought about by tom brady playing at a high level much longer than anyone predicted

i'd really like to have an alternate universe in play where brady's mortality came about a little earlier and this team was rebuilt around jimmy G.....he's not brady, but i think that was the plan, and things would have ended up looking different.....in the end they were just trying to build a year at a time, and found themselves running against the cap

as crazy as it sounds, TB12 being this good this long ended up being a double edged sword

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

One great thing about Bill is he makes changes if things don't work something similar to half time adjustments when we have a sloppy first half. I think we did not make those changes in drafting as we were pretty successful. This is the first year where we truly flopped and looked terrible on the field. I am sure it has hit bills ego pretty hard .

So I am expecting Bill to make the second half adjustments i.e better offensive evaluation and not drafting DB in second round... so I hope to see some moves with our scouting department and the way we evaluate our offense...

I would not hold your breath. Bill has made one terrible WR pick after another. He seems incapable of correcting this flaw. Again and again he flubs it; he just does not learn from his mistakes. He wants a super Boy Scout, humble, mold-able WR who, apparently, gives great interviews; he does not seem to understand that the good WRs are usually primadonna jerks, at least coming out of college.

It could be even worse this year since he will be desperate for a WR. He does not do well when desperate, like in 2015 when he was desperate for a S and reached for Jordan Richards.