Super in depth article on Bill's drafting history

[ctpatsfan77]

You can also make the argument that Bill didn't maximize value in his return for Jimmy so we basically developed him for 3.5 years only to get back what we used to get him.

By this logic, all the Patriots got out of Brady was a third-round comp pick.

They got a quality backup QB on a rookie salary, rather than having to pay $5M+/year for a veteran backup. That has value in and of itself.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In a huge coincidence they drafted very well from 2001-2004 (Pioli, Weiss) and 2009-2012 (Reese, O'Brien). In another huge coincidence Josh McDaniels wasn't here as coordinator those specific years (he was busy drafting Tim Tebow in the 1st round in Denver). In a final massive coincidence we have drafted terribly from 2013-now with Josh back and the John Carroll boys whispering moronic opinions to Belichick.

I'm sure McDaniels was who told him to spend 5 out of 6 second-round picks on defensive backs in the last six drafts. . . .

 

[203Pat]

By this logic, all the Patriots got out of Brady was a third-round comp pick.

They got a quality backup QB on a rookie salary, rather than having to pay $5M+/year for a veteran backup. That has value in and of itself.

I can't state out ridiculous that is.

Had they traded him before the 2017 season they likely could have gotten much more for him than at Halloween. He was also a good backup but got hurt after a game and a half so he played less than half of the games he was needed. You can believe the best Bill could get was a second round pick but when you see washed up receivers like Sanu going for a second I would assume a presumed franchise QB would go for more.

 

[farn]

They went 7-9 (not good for the Pats, but not an epic disaster either) in a year with:

- a global pandemic, which seriously impacted the team before and during the season
- godawful QB play, due in part to poor planning, but also due in part to Covid - both keeping Newton from practicing, and impacting him just as the team was doing well early in the year
- a number of key players opting out - more players than any other team (and the opt-outs happened basically after the team had been constructed, so there was very little BB could do about it at that point)
- their best defensive player (and reigning DPOY) having a subpar year and ultimately missing games due to injury

It's hardly a disastrous situation. Every other great team during the Pats' dynastic run (2001-present) has had down years:

- Pittsburgh: 6-10, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8
- Baltimore: 6-10, 5-11, 8-8, 5-11, 8-8
- Indianapolis: 2-14, 8-8, 8-8, 4-12, 7-9
- Kansas City: 6-10, 7-9, 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 2-14
- Denver: 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 4-12, 8-8, 5-11, 6-10, 7-9, 5-11
- Green Bay: 4-12, 8-8, 6-10, 7-9, 6-9-1
- New Orleans: 7-9, 3-13, 7-9, 8-8, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9
- Seattle: 7-9, 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 7-9

I mean, the Pats have had just this ONE bad year, with all the issues they had to face. Plus, no other franchise has had four draft picks (two 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder, and a 4th rounder) literally stolen from them.*

I mean, having ONE 7-9 season is really perfectly okay. If this continues, we have a problem.

*For the sake of discussion, I'm willing to allow that the 1st rounder for Spygate was possibly a legitimate penalty. I think it was way too harsh, but the Pats DID break the rules on that, so the forfeiture of SOME pick was ok.

Let's get a symbol for TRIPLE WINNER.

 

[ivanvamp]

You can make the argument that drafting Jimmy lit a fire under Brady but I don’t think you can call one player a good pick because of what another player did. You can also make the argument that Bill didn't maximize value in his return for Jimmy so we basically developed him for 3.5 years only to get back what we used to get him. I am talking about Bill's drafting and what the guys he took did to help the team. I don't give him credit because Jacoby Brissett is a solid backup for another team or because Berrios caught some passes for the Jets. His picks need to help the team he is drafting for and if they don't then they aren't good picks. The whole point of the draft is to build your team with young cheap talent not to be a farm system for other teams.

If you want to say that it is too early to call Harry or Williams a bust because they're still on the team then I have no real issue with it. I disagree but you are definitely entitled to that opinion. I would love to be wrong and see Williams step into a starting role next year and play well but based on what we have seen I don’t think that will happen. I think the 2020 class looks to have the most promise out of the last few years and I am hoping Bill can go on a hot streak like he did from 2010-2012 and jumpstart this rebuild.

Arguing about whether BB got max value for JG in a trade has nothing to do with whether JG was a good draft pick. Berrios is a solid NFL player, and BB should get credit for drafting a solid NFL player. It's a separate question of whether it was a good move letting Berrios go to another team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I want Bill to not have a second year 4th round pick that lost a start to Brian Hoyer when Newton got COVID as a succession plan. They traded Garoppolo in October 2017, there was plenty of time to do something about the position that didn't amount to drafting Stidham in Brady's last year.

Agree but he did have a plan. We can say the plan was flawed or didn't work but he did have a plan(s).

For fans to assume Bill was blindsided by Gronk and Tom moving are out to lunch.

 

[RobertWeathers]

he trades Jimmy g for a bowl of porridge . Awful

He held on to him until he couldn't anymore.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

He held on to him until he couldn't anymore.

that’s a franchise QB! Trade him for a first round pick or a stud in return. instead Of a bag of marbles! How do you give up a second for saNO and not het higher value for Jimmy?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I can't state out ridiculous that is.

Had they traded him before the 2017 season they likely could have gotten much more for him than at Halloween. He was also a good backup but got hurt after a game and a half so he played less than half of the games he was needed. You can believe the best Bill could get was a second round pick but when you see washed up receivers like Sanu going for a second I would assume a presumed franchise QB would go for more.

My point is that a player's value is not measured solely by the picks generated when he leaves.

Could the Patriots have gotten more for him, especially if they traded him prior to the season? Almost certainly. But Belichick decided that having him, even for half a season, justified the potential difference in picks.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

My point is that a player's value is not measured solely by the picks generated when he leaves.

Could the Patriots have gotten more for him, especially if they traded him prior to the season? Almost certainly. But Belichick decided that having him, even for half a season, justified the potential difference in picks.

teams trade their studs for a kings ransom. We did that with Richard Seymour.

however, bb lately let’s these good QBs go with hardly anything in return

 

[203Pat]

Arguing about whether BB got max value for JG in a trade has nothing to do with whether JG was a good draft pick. Berrios is a solid NFL player, and BB should get credit for drafting a solid NFL player. It's a separate question of whether it was a good move letting Berrios go to another team.

Yeah Brett Favre was a real great pick for the Falcons.

 

[amfootball]

Agree but he did have a plan. We can say the plan was flawed or didn't work but he did have a plan(s).

For fans to assume Bill was blindsided by Gronk and Tom moving are out to lunch.

Gronk - no. Reports said he was surprised that Brady left. Apparently he thought Kraft would out a deal with him at the 11th hour and he would take another crap one year deal.

 

[203Pat]

My point is that a player's value is not measured solely by the picks generated when he leaves.

Could the Patriots have gotten more for him, especially if they traded him prior to the season? Almost certainly. But Belichick decided that having him, even for half a season, justified the potential difference in picks.

I don't know what Bill expected to happen. He traded Brissett before week one and he waited another 2 months to trade Jimmy. Brady was coming off a near MVP season and super bowl win. Not sure why Bill didn't re-up Brady then and trade Garoppolo before the season. Bill just flat out mismanaged that whole situation.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm sure McDaniels was who told him to spend 5 out of 6 second-round picks on defensive backs in the last six drafts. . . .

Our entire CB system was revamped by McDaniels in 2004 and Belichick ditched his old DB scouting system. This is why we only hit on undrafted FA's now like JC Jackson or Malcolm Butler or trade via Revis or Gilmore. Happy to cite the Wickersham article about McDaniels' awesome DB scouting system that the Pats use now.

.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yeah Brett Favre was a real great pick for the Falcons.

He was a great pick. #33 overall for a future hall-of-famer. It's a DIFFERENT ISSUE that they then traded him to the Packers.

Not sure what's so hard about this.

 

[203Pat]

He was a great pick. #33 overall for a future hall-of-famer. It's a DIFFERENT ISSUE that they then traded him to the Packers.

Not sure what's so hard about this.

He was a great player. Not a great pick for the Falcons.

 

[RobertWeathers]

that’s a franchise QB! Trade him for a first round pick or a stud in return. instead Of a bag of marbles! How do you give up a second for saNO and not het higher value for Jimmy?

I don't think you understand how timing impacted the trade value.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Gronk - no. Reports said he was surprised that Brady left. Apparently he thought Kraft would out a deal with him at the 11th hour and he would take another crap one year deal.

Bill played a very politically charged, PR-sensitive issue perfectly.

He knew Tom was gone.

 

[DarrylS]

teams trade their studs for a kings ransom. We did that with Richard Seymour.

however, bb lately let’s these good QBs go with hardly anything in return

How do you know what was offered?? To say this is a tremendous leap of faith, as we will never know what the actual market was.

I doubt that Jimmy G was traded to SF arbitrarily if there was a better offer....

 

[ivanvamp]

He was a great player. Not a great pick for the Falcons.

Sure he was. It was a great selection, but a mistake to trade him.

You're conflating two separate things. You can make a great draft pick and then make a foolish trade.