speculation: Reggine wayne may be leaving Indy

[Texxx]

He's one of the best of his generation...

But WRs of his skill set have never panned out in NE. I'm thinking of Ocho, Stallworth, Joey Galloway, and even guys like Chad Jackson or Belthel, or even the brief stint w/ Torry Holt.

Wayne is like a graceful racehorse. Finesse. Precision.

We need smaller shiftier guys who don't get by on running a fixed route just the right way, so elegantly, like Wayne. Rather, we need ones who can read the field and make adjustments. Muck it out. Wes, Troy, even guys like Jabar and Tim Dwight fit the profile pretty well.

Or tall and rangy freaks of nature like Moss. As a corollary, I'd point to Brandon Marshall or even (ugh) Plaxico as guys who would physically fit the profile (but not mentally ).

Just not a good fit, IMO.

I disagree. I think Wayne is the perfect type of WR to play well in this offense. His precision and finnese that you speak of would be great in an offense like Brady runs where so much is timing related. Wayne is a superb route runner that's a very good fit for what this offense does. He is a little up there in age, but I think coming here and playing with Tom could revuinate him for another great season or two.

And taking him from the Colts would be icing on the cake.

 

[strngplyr]

I disagree. I think Wayne is the perfect type of WR to play well in this offense. His precision and finnese that you speak of would be great in an offense like Brady runs where so much is timing related. Wayne is a superb route runner that's a very good fit for what this offense does. He is a little up there in age, but I think coming here and playing with Tom could revuinate him for another great season or two.

And taking him from the Colts would be icing on the cake.

Patriots require intelligent receivers more so than gifted. It is also why receivers have such a high drop-out rate here.

I'm not saying Wayne would or wouldn't succeed, but it takes more than a good route runner to thrive here. Welker and Branch have some kind of telepathic connection going on with Brady, neither are very physically gifted, they are just quick and read the defenses as well as the quarterback.

I don't know if Wayne could or couldn't do that, but simply being a route runner and showing 'finesse' doesn't make you a fit for this offense.

It will also be the downfall of our offense if we don't find young receivers who pick it up quick soon, too, unless we change to a simpler scheme.

 

[jays52]

While I think that Wayne would fit the scheme and be a productive player, I don't think that the budget allows for it. Think about allocated budget for pass catchers. They will have 6m tied up for Ocho. They will have Welker franchised for between 9 and 10 million. Then they need to get Gronk resigned on a contract that will likely be around 7-8 million AAV.

The only logical potential upgrade to the position would be to take a receiver in the 1st, and I doubt they value the position enough to dedicate that kind of asset.

 

[Texxx]

Patriots require intelligent receivers more so than gifted. It is also why receivers have such a high drop-out rate here.

I'm not saying Wayne would or wouldn't succeed, but it takes more than a good route runner to thrive here. Welker and Branch have some kind of telepathic connection going on with Brady, neither are very physically gifted, they are just quick and read the defenses as well as the quarterback.

I don't know if Wayne could or couldn't do that, but simply being a route runner and showing 'finesse' doesn't make you a fit for this offense.

It will also be the downfall of our offense if we don't find young receivers who pick it up quick soon, too, unless we change to a simpler scheme.

Ah man come on, Wayne had amazing chemistry with Manning for years. He obviously has that same type of "gene" for the telepathic connection that Welker and Branch had except that Wayne is better than both receivers. As far as Wayne's ability to learn this offense, well we're talking about a guy that has played with Manning for years where he audibles on every other play and changes up routes more than anyone.

 

[jays52]

Patriots require intelligent receivers more so than gifted. It is also why receivers have such a high drop-out rate here.

I'm not saying Wayne would or wouldn't succeed, but it takes more than a good route runner to thrive here. Welker and Branch have some kind of telepathic connection going on with Brady, neither are very physically gifted, they are just quick and read the defenses as well as the quarterback.

I don't know if Wayne could or couldn't do that, but simply being a route runner and showing 'finesse' doesn't make you a fit for this offense.

It will also be the downfall of our offense if we don't find young receivers who pick it up quick soon, too, unless we change to a simpler scheme.

Indy runs an option route scheme, just like here. There's no doubt that he could/would succeed in this offense. There is no telepathic relationship going on between Brady and his trusted receivers. He has guys who understand how to get open vs certain coverages, and guys who know how to find holes in defenses that Brady will also read. The Patriots run a complicated scheme but it's far from neuroscience.

 

[Texxx]

The Patriots run a complicated scheme but it's far from neuroscience.

Exactly. It's funny to me that since Ocho Cinco has had so much trouble here, there is this giant stigma that hardly anyone can understand this system NE runs with their offense. Plenty of different WR's have come and gone here and had some of their best years.

 

[strngplyr]

Exactly. It's funny to me that since Ocho Cinco has had so much trouble here, there is this giant stigma that hardly anyone can understand this system NE runs with their offense. Plenty of different WR's have come and gone here and had some of their best years.

You act like Ocho is the only receiver who has had trouble.

 

[DarrylS]

Do not see the Pats tying up money to f.. with the minds of the Colts.. that would go against just about everything this franchise does, the Jets maybe.

Do not see this franchise tying up money in a 34 year old receiver... particularly when you can franchise a known quantity.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

While I think that Wayne would fit the scheme and be a productive player, I don't think that the budget allows for it. Think about allocated budget for pass catchers. They will have 6m tied up for Ocho. They will have Welker franchised for between 9 and 10 million. Then they need to get Gronk resigned on a contract that will likely be around 7-8 million AAV.

The only logical potential upgrade to the position would be to take a receiver in the 1st, and I doubt they value the position enough to dedicate that kind of asset.

Gronkowski is signed thru 2013 so he's not likely to get dealt with until then unless he takes something less than a $5M AAV(the tag for TE's in 2012 is $5.4M) in new money and allows them to extend that onto the balance of his rookie deal which would lower his cap hit exponentially. And he and Hernandez will be in a similar situation to the one they found themselves in back in 2005 when they had Branch and Givens to deal with and didn't want one to set the bar on the other.

They don't have $6M tied up in Ocho. That's sunk cost. His cap hit will be around $4.5M which likely means he's not back unless he takes a substantial pay cut (he's due $3M in salary next season, same as his dead cap if he's gone). Unless he restructures and turns about $2M of that into NFTBE's I can't imagine Chad will be here no matter how fond of him Bill or his teamates are... Because Branch will likely be available to only them for not much more than the $2M he earned this season...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Exactly. It's funny to me that since Ocho Cinco has had so much trouble here, there is this giant stigma that hardly anyone can understand this system NE runs with their offense. Plenty of different WR's have come and gone here and had some of their best years.

Really...name them. Moss didn't really participate in the system here. He did his thing and they fed him the ball but his thing was pretty limited and as his skills eroded those limitations began to bite them in the ass after 2007 which is why he was jettisoned in 2010. Reche Caldwell appeared to get it to an extent, although his inability to catch the easy ones in the crunch led to his demise after just a season. Gaffney seemed to pick it up well but talent wise they didn't think he was worth the asking price of 4/$10M... Neither Graham (who was an excellent blocker when not injured) or Watson (who hardly ever managed to be in the right spot) picked it up to the extent the current TE duo has. And both were intelligent guys, Watson supposedly exceptionally so.

Understanding or grasping the scheme and playbook here is only half the battle. Identifying guys who can assimilate within it to the extent they can execute it on the fly intuitively is another whole matter.

 

[Banjo]

I wouldn't mind at all if they replaced Ocho with Reggie. It would be an upgrade, IMO.

They still need to draft some decent WRs, though. in 2010 we got the TEs we needed. in 2011 we got RBs... jury's still out on them. next year - WRs!!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Indy runs an option route scheme, just like here. There's no doubt that he could/would succeed in this offense. There is no telepathic relationship going on between Brady and his trusted receivers. He has guys who understand how to get open vs certain coverages, and guys who know how to find holes in defenses that Brady will also read. The Patriots run a complicated scheme but it's far from neuroscience.

There aren't nearly as many options in that scheme. Nor do receivers have to read coverage post snap beyond reacting to or beating the coverage they are facing individually. There is a telepathic relationship between Brady and his best receivers who see or anticipate the same things he does post snap 95% of the time. That is what forges the bond of trust he shares with them. The young TE's are a little different in that they don't always see it but they don't necessarily have to as they are both talented enough to create consistent coverage mismatch nightmares that Brady can capitalize on so long as they remain focused on running their prescribed route and catching the ball. Focus is mostly what he's on them for at this juncture. I assume we could do that with the whole lot of 'em provided we drafted sufficient talent mismatches, but that would prove costly not to mention it would negate a good deal of Brady's enduring value to the system.

Like Bill is fond of reminding us if we listen, you never know what a guy can do in your system until you get him in it. Reggie might be savvy enough, maybe Bill sees that on tape in the increasing disconnects between he and Manning when he isn't where Manning wanted him but he was where he should have been based on coverage. And he might be hungry enough to be motivated. But he's got his ring and he's been to two superbowls and he's been making several million per for a long time and I can't see him wanting less money or more rings badly enough. If Manning is back in Indy they will franchise him because he's worth more to them short term in that scenario than he is to anyone else. If Manning isn't back he's likely not worth that to a rookie QB around whom that scheme will likely have to be adapted and adjusted incrementally over the next 2-3 seasons to fit his skillset.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Bill likes him as a player. Wouldn't mind bringing him here. He runs all the routes in the route tree. Plus I want Colts fans to cry.

Payback for A.V.

 

[PatsFan2]

Former Pro-Bowl outside receiver, turning 34 years old, declining production that could be attributed to eroding physical skills and poor recent QB play. Isn't really a deep threat anymore, but could operate in the intermediate part of the field. Has only played in one system his entire career, however.

Sound familiar?

Thank you no thanks to Reggie Wayne but i wouldn't mind a shot at Pierre Garson if the Colts let him walk, Garson is younger and alot Faster.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Really...name them. Moss didn't really participate in the system here. He did his thing and they fed him the ball but his thing was pretty limited and as his skills eroded those limitations began to bite them in the ass after 2007 which is why he was jettisoned in 2010. Reche Caldwell appeared to get it to an extent, although his inability to catch the easy ones in the crunch led to his demise after just a season. Gaffney seemed to pick it up well but talent wise they didn't think he was worth the asking price of 4/$10M... Neither Graham (who was an excellent blocker when not injured) or Watson (who hardly ever managed to be in the right spot) picked it up to the extent the current TE duo has. And both were intelligent guys, Watson supposedly exceptionally so.

Understanding or grasping the scheme and playbook here is only half the battle. Identifying guys who can assimilate within it to the extent they can execute it on the fly intuitively is another whole matter.

This is where BB went wrong drafting Chad Jackson. Read where BB interviewed the kid with a white board and Chad knew all the defenses and route responses. Nailed the interview. But like some who impress on job interviews only to fail when faced with daily reality, Chad supposedly couldn't think on the fly and possibly didn't try that hard earning him an early ticket to Brady's dog house*. We all know how that turns out.

* Ill never forget my trips to training camp when Chad was here. All world physique, but Brady's looks of disdain or just pure ignoring the guy the few times he was in the team 1st lineup were tells.

 

[Shockt327]

Indy runs an option route scheme, just like here. There's no doubt that he could/would succeed in this offense. There is no telepathic relationship going on between Brady and his trusted receivers. He has guys who understand how to get open vs certain coverages, and guys who know how to find holes in defenses that Brady will also read. The Patriots run a complicated scheme but it's far from neuroscience.

I don't know where people come up with this stuff, but you are totally incorrect.

Indy runs the most simple offense in the NFL.

I'd be more than happy to post some full length articles where Manning and Dundy and Tom Moore and co. themselves discuss the offense....

The basic philosophy is to keep it as simple as possible. Fixed routes. Alwqays 3/1/1 formation. The reason why Manning calls it as the LOS is because the playbook is way too simple to be effective unless you can get a pre-snap read.

 

[Patsfan1102]

Reggie Wayne would only be solid here for a year or 2 at most....Id much rather get someone else though he is an upgrade over Brnach but cmon 34 yr old WR

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Is LLoyd going to be a FA next year? I'd rather have him, younger and knows the system. If Branch is done after this system Wayne would be a nice replacement. But I'd love to see this lineup next year at WR - Welker/Lloyd/Branch/Oocho/Edelman

or replace Branch with Wayne

 

[Garbanza]

Former Pro-Bowl outside receiver, turning 34 years old, declining production that could be attributed to eroding physical skills and poor recent QB play. Isn't really a deep threat anymore, but could operate in the intermediate part of the field. Has only played in one system his entire career, however.

Sound familiar?

Exactly what I was thinking! NO THANK YOU TO CHAD OCHOSTINKO PART II.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Andrew Luck will NOT be pleased