so, the Colts have some boo-boo's, right?

[RobertWeathers]

It's funny how fans can respond to injuries. Pats fans will remember the Pete Carroll era, when there were so many injuries and fans were pointing the finger at the coach, the conditioning - -everything. From what I've seen injuries have been at least as prevalent under BB, but there hasn't been so much outrage; winning does that. Plus, after following the sport for a while, you just understand that injuries happen.

As for the Colts: From what I've seen they have always preferred undersized and fast, and maybe that can catch up to you in such a physical sport.

I do think that some injuries are unavoidable, but some injuries, because of the environment some coaches create (see Parcells), you are expected to play and if you are deemed to be dogging it, you will be jettisoned. I do think that there was some coddling with certain players that occured with Carroll/Grier that did not go on with Parcells and BB.

Certainly the Colts' injuries are very real.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

All this wringing of hands of #18's numbers with Tamme v Clark or with and without Collie etc. etc. etc. makes you wonder what he'd make of a Reche Caldwell. Just sayin'.

The Lord of the Ring - singular - may well get right to it and carve up our guys. We may lose the game. Hell, this NE team might not have the testicular fortitude to finish (disturbing trend,) and one guy you don't want playing from behind without your boot on his neck is, admittedly, Peyton Manning.

BTW, I don't really hate the Colts, and I don't even hate the Giants or the Jets (the guys we actually have to beat by the end of the season, after all.) I have come to realize (2007 made it pretty clear) that great teams beat themselves or overcome adversity... Colts beat us in 2006? Then they were the better team in 2006. Giants in 2007? Ditto.

I like the idea that BB is working with a new crop of guys that can drink in that ethic, after years and years of the "savvy vets" and our recent experiment with a superstar aerial connection. I loved the Randy years, don't get me wrong... but there's a lot to like in the way this season's shaping up, win or lose.

Okay that's my morning soapbox routine.

Delenda est Indianapiolis,

PFnV

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Over the past few weeks I've heard people in the media cry about all the injuries their beloved Colt have.

Here are some of their notable players on IR :

Bullit, Gonzalez, Clark. I heard that Collie and Addai have some injuries.

Now here is a list of notable Patriots players on IR:

Warren, Bodden, McGowen,the Ghost, Faulk: Now, Taylor and Neal have been out.

So which other important Colts players are injured do they cannot play? Maybe I missed some. There has to be more to have the media people pull out their crying towels, or does there?

You're point is well taken. I think it was Adam Shefter who talked about this a week or so ago. The Patriots have suffered some major injuries to key players (how nice would Lee Bodden look playing the opposite corner to McCourty?...what can you say about the value of Faulk..) yet few ever mention that when evaluating this team. Makes their improvement this year all the more impressive.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Fox has a report out today on injuries:

Marvez: NFL injuries are becoming more common - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

It says if you go back to include training camp & preseason the Colts IR total is 20, tops in the league. For some reason there doesn't seem to be an official list anywhere.

Rosters at cbssports list 16 Colts as having an injury issue (the red box):
Indianapolis Colts Roster | NFL at CBSSports.com

and 15 Patriots:
New England Patriots Roster | NFL at CBSSports.com

Granted, not all injury issues are similar, i.e. you can expect Brady to play!

 

[tuckeverlasting]

The Peyton Manning mystique benefits from 2 things:

1.) The Colts run almost a pure timing offense, meaning any other QB will look terrible until he gets that timing down pat. Manning spends the offseason working with all his receivers on the routes, so he can anticipate exactly where the ball is going to need to go, and he's thrown the route hundreds of times. Since the rules change in 2004/2005, that timing is even more noticeable, since defenders can't hand-fight to get the receivers off-stride the way they used to be able to.

2.) The Colts have done a lousy job of backing up Manning, so the drop from Manning to Painter, for example, is enormous. In New England, the Patriots have had guys like Testaverde, Flutie, Bledsoe, Cassel..... guys who can actually play in the NFL.

don't forget what else adds to manning's mystique is that brady plays in new york's rival city. brady 'll never get the credit he deserves from the major media outlets.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You're point is well taken. I think it was Adam Shefter who talked about this a week or so ago. The Patriots have suffered some major injuries to key players (how nice would Lee Bodden look playing the opposite corner to McCourty?...what can you say about the value of Faulk..) yet few ever mention that when evaluating this team. Makes their improvement this year all the more impressive.

Pats have managed these issues well. Having Faulk would outstanding but I'm loving what Woodhead is bringing. Quite frankly, I think hes the CoP back in 2011 and beyond.

I'd would be nice to have Ty Warren in there but the team has don pretty well without him.

I do think Bodden would make a difference but at 7-2, you really can't complain too much with Arrington and Deadrick filling in quite nicely.

 

[workhorse]

don't forget what else adds to manning's mystique is that brady plays in new york's rival city. brady 'll never get the credit he deserves from the major media outlets.

Are you kidding me?

 

[PATSNUTme]

I did hear Mike and Mike this morning say that the Colts have "practice squad" players.

You know, I really think that someone in the Colts publicity department is putting out this whining about injuries out to the media. And being lazy, the media is running with it rather than doing a real comparision of the 2 teams injuries.

 

[workhorse]

I think there are two issues with the Colts injuries. One, a lot of them are at the "skill" positions. Two, the back ups are even getting hurt. Just look at our WRs and safeties.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Not to get off on the "Brady vs Manning" rant but.....

Take away Manning's prow bowl weapons and things get pedestrian pretty quickly.

Give Brady a bonified deep threat and he breaks records.

I had a discussion with a knowledgable Eagles fan at work about the placement of Brady vs Manning's on the "Top 100". He said, "That's about right." I said, "Brady has 3 rings to Mannings 1." He said Brady won rings with great defenses. Outside of New England Brady is seen as a system quarterback. The reality is Brady's accuracy and ability to do "more with less" allows the Pats to increase depth and talent elsewhere.

The Colts are obviously built around Manning, who has to carry the team on his back. He will always get more notoriety in this regard.... especially to the casual fan. Team depth is compromised for higher paid offensive weapons (including the O-line). If he goes down...they're screwed. If offensive weapons go down...they're screwed. They have been lucky injury-wise and it has caught up with them this year. No matter how much they change the rules to favor higher scores, it is ultimately football. Offensive based teams are light in the loafers and historically will stall later in the season and in the playoffs when they have to play outside their dome in poor weather. Different systems, different stadiums. Ultimately, Manning got his one ring and Brady has more to come...book it.

 

[workhorse]

Not to get off on the "Brady vs Manning" rant but.....

Take away Manning's prow bowl weapons and things get pedestrian pretty quickly.

Give Brady a bonified deep threat and he breaks records.

I had a discussion with a knowledgable Eagles fan at work about the placement of Brady vs Manning's on the "Top 100". He said, "That's about right." I said, "Brady has 3 rings to Mannings 1." He said Brady won rings with great defenses. Outside of New England Brady is seen as a system quarterback. The reality is Brady's accuracy and ability to do "more with less" allows the Pats to increase depth and talent elsewhere.

The Colts are obviously built around Manning, who has to carry the team on his back. He will always get more notoriety in this regard.... especially to the casual fan. Team depth is compromised for higher paid offensive weapons (including the O-line). If he goes down...they're screwed. If offensive weapons go down...they're screwed. They have been lucky injury-wise and it has caught up with them this year. No matter how much they change the rules to favor higher scores, it is ultimately football. Offensive based teams are light in the loafers and historically will stall later in the season and in the playoffs when they have to play outside their dome in poor weather. Different systems, different stadiums. Ultimately, Manning got his one ring and Brady has more to come...book it.

You can't really compare the receivers that Brady had during the Super Bowl run to the group that Peyton has right now. While the Pats receiver may have not been well known, household name type guys, they all were NFL roster caliber players. Right now, Peyton was throwing the ball to 2 receivers that were added to the roster last week and the week before and a tight end that wasn't on the roster 3 weeks ago.

 

[IllegalContact]

sounds like excuse-making to me.

the colts might deserve sympathy from a healthy team, but that won't be the pats.

warren
bodden
neal
kaczur
faulk
ghostkowski

.....6 starters......5 out for the year.

taylor
pryor

2 regular contributors have been out

moss
maroney

2 guys whose service to the pats was lost.

quantitavely, the guys gone from the pats since training camp is more substantial. the pats have/are starting 10 rookies and 2nd year guys. (tate,gronkowski,hernandez,vollmer,deaderick,brace,cunningham,spikes,mccourty,chung,arrington)....ooops....that's 11

enjoy the future

 

[L Bizzle]

sounds like excuse-making to me.

the colts might deserve sympathy from a healthy team, but that won't be the pats.

warren
bodden
neal
kaczur
faulk
ghostkowski

.....6 starters......5 out for the year.

taylor
pryor

2 regular contributors have been out

moss
maroney

2 guys whose service to the pats was lost.

quantitavely, the guys gone from the pats since training camp is more substantial. the pats have/are starting 10 rookies and 2nd year guys. (tate,gronkowski,hernandez,vollmer,deaderick,brace,cunningham,spikes,mccourty,chung,arrington)....ooops....that's 11

enjoy the future

Quality over Quantity my friend. The Pats are built off general players that fill in when needed. The Colts are built off scheme-specific speed type players that are tailored to fit a particular need, more so than other teams.

The players lost as a whole for the Colts mean much more in terms of the team running efficiently than the ones lost for the Patriots. Basically, the particular injuries we have to KEY players are more substantial by FAR than the one's suffered by the Pats

Moss and Maroney don't count as they were released by the team, obviously the Pats front office expected the team to be better without them

 

[Captain Cliche]

Super Bowl runs...plural.

Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney????

Just teasing. Yes, you guys have been decimated by injuries. It just seems you guys have been incredibly lucky injury-wise in the past. Both are great quarterbacks who make those around them better. Different systems and philosophies. The "system quarterback who won with great defenses" perception pisses me off.

The Randy Moss experiment is over. I think it is HUGE that Brady finally has 2 tight ends that can consistantly (hopefully) get open and catch the ball. This is something that BB has been aiming-for for a long time.

 

[Deus Irae]

Quality over Quantity my friend. The Pats are built off general players that fill in when needed. The Colts are built off scheme-specific speed type players that are tailored to fit a particular need, more so than other teams.

The players lost as a whole for the Colts mean much more in terms of the team running efficiently than the ones lost for the Patriots. Basically, the particular injuries we have to KEY players are more substantial by FAR than the one's suffered by the Pats

Moss and Maroney don't count as they were released by the team, obviously the Pats front office expected the team to be better without them

The irony of this post from you, given your claims in the other thread, is awesome! Great effort in excuse making. Thanks for the chuckles.

BTW, one reason the Colts have been able to maintain their position is precisely because they have such a different scheme. That difference means that they are one of the very few teams looking for players to fill it, meaning they get the very best of those who will fit that system.

It's not a diluted talent pool, which is similar to the advantage the Patriots and Steelers had for a few years while the rest of the league was all running the 4-3.

 

[L Bizzle]

The irony of this post from you, given your claims in the other thread, is awesome! Great effort in excuse making. Thanks for the chuckles.

BTW, one reason the Colts have been able to maintain their position is precisely because they have such a different scheme. That difference means that they are one of the very few teams looking for players to fill it, meaning they get the very best of those who will fit that system.

It's not a diluted talent pool, which is similar to the advantage the Patriots and Steelers had for a few years while the rest of the league was all running the 4-3.

What excuses did I make? There are several claims in this thread that the Pats have more serious injuries than the Colts and the media has overplayed our injury situation, I simply stated why that is not true. What's your deal?

No excuses, no explanations

 

[IllegalContact]

Quality over Quantity my friend. The Pats are built off general players that fill in when needed. The Colts are built off scheme-specific speed type players that are tailored to fit a particular need, more so than other teams.

The players lost as a whole for the Colts mean much more in terms of the team running efficiently than the ones lost for the Patriots. Basically, the particular injuries we have to KEY players are more substantial by FAR than the one's suffered by the Pats

Moss and Maroney don't count as they were released by the team, obviously the Pats front office expected the team to be better without them

well, then.....bob sanders doesn't count, either because we all knew he wouldn't be around......

as for the rest of your point, it is silly.......warren and bodden are better defensive players than anyone the colts have lost (bob sanders doesn't count because we all knew he wouldn't be there anyway) unless offensive stats are all you count.

the problem for the colts is really 2-fold:

1 - they're soft
2 - they have drafted very poorly the last 4 years. so there is no depth.

no sympathy for poor planning

 

[Deus Irae]

What excuses did I make? There are several claims in this thread that the Pats have more serious injuries than the Colts and the media has overplayed our injury situation, I simply stated why that is not true. What's your deal?

No excuses, no explanations

The Colts are built off scheme-specific speed type players that are tailored to fit a particular need, more so than other teams.

Basically, the particular injuries we have to KEY players are more substantial by FAR than the one's suffered by the Pats

Pretty clear.*


*I've got no problem with you offering these as reasons, although I may agree or disagree. I'm simply pointing out the inconsistency of this post when applied to the other thread. You're being a hypocrite, and I'm noting that.

 

[L Bizzle]

well, then.....bob sanders doesn't count, either because we all knew he wouldn't be around......

as for the rest of your point, it is silly.......warren and bodden are better defensive players than anyone the colts have lost (bob sanders doesn't count because we all knew he wouldn't be there anyway) unless offensive stats are all you count.

the problem for the colts is really 2-fold:

1 - they're soft
2 - they have drafted very poorly the last 4 years. so there is no depth.

no sympathy for poor planning

I'd Take Freeney and Mathis over anyone on The Patriots D


Then Antoine Bethea over anyone left over

Then a (healthy) Bob Sanders over ANYONE on both D's

And there is a difference between your team getting rid of you, and being injured...you do know this correct? So Bob Sanders DOES count, since our front office has kept him on the team due to their belief that the team is better during the (little) time he does step on the field.

 

[BSR]

Quality over Quantity my friend. The Pats are built off general players that fill in when needed. The Colts are built off scheme-specific speed type players that are tailored to fit a particular need, more so than other teams.

The players lost as a whole for the Colts mean much more in terms of the team running efficiently than the ones lost for the Patriots. Basically, the particular injuries we have to KEY players are more substantial by FAR than the one's suffered by the Pats

Moss and Maroney don't count as they were released by the team, obviously the Pats front office expected the team to be better without them

This is pure nonsense. The Patriots have lost numerous starters and key players.

Frankly, as many have already mentioned, the Colts injury situation is way overblown. Here is the list of starters the Colts on the Colts offense according to the official site:

WR Reggie Wayne
LT Charlie Johnson
LG Kyle DeVan
C Jeff Saturday
RG Mike Pollak
RT Ryan Diem
TE Brody Eldridge
WR Pierre Garcon
WR Austin Collie
QB Peyton Manning
RB Joseph Addai

Obviously the loss of Clark is a big one, but other then that? Collie looks like he is going to play. Addai may not play but they have a good back up.

Heck, look at the Patriots WR and RB. How many could start for the colts? Welker? Maybe if he wasn't playing with a brace on his legs.

Please, give me a break.