Slow Day - Is Our Defense Better Or Worse Than Our Playoff Team?

[maineman209]

Well the secondary still remains a wait and see. I still have to see more of Rowe on a consistent basis. Team could use another linebacker slash pass rusher.

A lot of people are hoping Shelton will be the college player he was but he was dissapointing for the browns. Let's hope it was because of the scheme.

Not sure how Shelton was "disappointing" for the Browns. He did very well at his natural 2-gapping NT position in their 3-4 base for his first two seasons. It was only after Gregg "I still get jobs!" Williams swept in as DC and changed everything over to his attacking 4-3 that Shelton became somewhat disappointing (in a scheme for which he was not suited).

The Pats mix of 3-4/4-3, 1-gap/2-gap schemes should be a much better environment for Shelton's skill set.

 

[maineman209]

Jason McCourty has been wildly overrated by many on this forum, but he did seem to have a decent year last season, so who knows?

Whether or not he’s as good as Butler would likely depend on your assessment of how much Butler slipped last year, and whether Jason can continue an upward trend in play.

Perhaps also depends on how much the Pats coverage schemes might help his productivity or hurt it. Generally, BB tries to optimize a players' strengths while minimizing the exposure of his weaknesses, so I'd guess that Jason turns out pretty well in 2018.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps also depends on how much the Pats coverage schemes might help his productivity or hurt it. Generally, BB tries to optimize a players' strengths while minimizing the exposure of his weaknesses, so I'd guess that Jason turns out pretty well in 2018.

This is a pretty strong group. We all have the one of the four that we consider a weakness. However, most of us are fine with our own list of 3 top corners. Absent injury, the 4th needn't get much action. Of course, much depends on game scheme, if the coaches trust that Rowe, Jones, and McCourty are all to be defending on relatively equally.

IMHO, C Jones just isn't worth a roster spot as a developmental CB. There will be camp competition, if only from Practice Squad players and late round draft choices.

 

[maineman209]

This is a pretty strong group. We all have the one of the four that we consider a weakness. However, most of us are fine with our own list of 3 top corners. Absent injury, the 4th needn't get much action. Of course, much depends on game scheme, if the coaches trust that Rowe, Jones, and McCourty are all to be defending on relatively equally.

IMHO, C Jones just isn't worth a roster spot as a developmental CB. There will be camp competition, if only from Practice Squad players and late round draft choices.

Agree 100%.

Going into 2017 Camp, I viewed Gilmore, Butler and Rowe as the clear top three corners. Below them were Coleman (3rd year), Cy Jones (2nd year) and Jon Jones (2nd year).

Coleman had by far the most defensive experience, but also seemed to have hit is (relatively low) developmental ceiling. He also hadn't contributed very much on ST in his two previous seasons. He seemed expendable to me.

Cy Jones had received nearly as many snaps on defense in 2016 ("tryout" more or less) as Coleman, and he wasn't irredeemably horrible. In spite of his yips on returns, he seemed to have the potential to develop into a more complete contributor than Coleman.

Jon Jones seemed to be exclusively a special-teamer (though a very good one).

Coleman ended up being traded at the end of Camp (as I predicted at the time). But Cy Jones tore an ACL and was replaced (more or less) by Bademosi, veteran special-teamer/reserve CB. I expected Jon Jones to remain pretty much STO, but he really took advantage of his opportunities when Rowe was injured (injured again) and appears now to have passed Cy Jones on the CB depth chart by a fairly wide margin.

Cy Jones was dreadful on punt returns (even when he wasn't fumbling them), so he's likely no help in replacing Amendola there. CJ's kick returns (22.5-yd avg) were adequate, but easily surpassed by Dion Lewis, and now upgraded from even further with the acquisition of Patterson (who is also a decent gunner on ST, apparently).

So, at this very early stage of 2018 roster-building, it seems to me likely that Gilmore and Jason McCourty are the top two CBs with Rowe (who contributes almost nothing on ST) very possibly being strongly challenged by Jon Jones (still a high-usage special-teamer) for the third spot.

The Pats will certainly carry five CBs, but unless Cy Jones comes back strong from his injury and shows some hitherto unseen defensive chops (and/or ability to make significant contributions in a non-returner ST role), it seems to me that he may be rather easily knocked off the bottom of the roster by perhaps Ryan Lewis or by someone who's not yet on the roster.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I don’t see how anyone can expect much of a workload for Hightower. I see him as Mayo part II—great talent with a body that won’t hold up

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Agree 100%.

Going into 2017 Camp, I viewed Gilmore, Butler and Rowe as the clear top three corners. Below them were Coleman (3rd year), Cy Jones (2nd year) and Jon Jones (2nd year).

Coleman had by far the most defensive experience, but also seemed to have hit is (relatively low) developmental ceiling. He also hadn't contributed very much on ST in his two previous seasons. He seemed expendable to me.

Cy Jones had received nearly as many snaps on defense in 2016 ("tryout" more or less) as Coleman, and he wasn't irredeemably horrible. In spite of his yips on returns, he seemed to have the potential to develop into a more complete contributor than Coleman.

Jon Jones seemed to be exclusively a special-teamer (though a very good one).

Coleman ended up being traded at the end of Camp (as I predicted at the time). But Cy Jones tore an ACL and was replaced (more or less) by Bademosi, veteran special-teamer/reserve CB. I expected Jon Jones to remain pretty much STO, but he really took advantage of his opportunities when Rowe was injured (injured again) and appears now to have passed Cy Jones on the CB depth chart by a fairly wide margin.

Cy Jones was dreadful on punt returns (even when he wasn't fumbling them), so he's likely no help in replacing Amendola there. CJ's kick returns (22.5-yd avg) were adequate, but easily surpassed by Dion Lewis, and now upgraded from even further with the acquisition of Patterson (who is also a decent gunner on ST, apparently).

So, at this very early stage of 2018 roster-building, it seems to me likely that Gilmore and Jason McCourty are the top two CBs with Rowe (who contributes almost nothing on ST) very possibly being strongly challenged by Jon Jones (still a high-usage special-teamer) for the third spot.

The Pats will certainly carry five CBs, but unless Cy Jones comes back strong from his injury and shows some hitherto unseen defensive chops (and/or ability to make significant contributions in a non-returner ST role), it seems to me that he may be rather easily knocked off the bottom of the roster by perhaps Ryan Lewis or by someone who's not yet on the roster.

"Jones, meanwhile, saw significantly more snaps on defense than in Week 1. The core special teamer played 27 snaps on defense after playing just three against the Chiefs, filling in after Eric Rowe left with an injury. Jones was surprisingly excellent as Brees tested him repeatedly down the field, breaking up a potential touchdown to Saints wideout Ted Ginn and ultimately holding the opposition to a field goal in the second quarter."

Patriots' Deatrich Wise, Jonathan Jones Excel With Expanded Playing Time



"And while starting corner Stephon Gilmore had to leave midgame with dehydration issues, second-year backup Jonathan Jones stepped up big-time--locking down opposing receivers and playing key roles on both takeaways.

As MassLive reported, Jones was in coverage on both turnovers. The first, a Derek Carr interception on a deep throw down the left sideline, had Jones blanketing Raiders wideout Johnny Holton. After Carr's pass dinged off Holton's shoulder pad safety Duron Harmon was able to clean up an interception. On the second play, Jones stood Oakland's Seth Roberts up at the five-yard line before linebacker Marquis Flowers rallied to strip the ball for a fumble (which the Pats recovered).

Without Gilmore in the lineup, Jones played 70 snaps: 94.6% of the team's total defensive plays and an easy season high. While first-year Patriot Johnson Bademosi replaced Gilmore after his Week 5 concussion, Jones has contributed throughout the year in the slot and made a convincing case on Sunday for more playing time if Gilmore or Malcolm Butler face more injury problems in the future.

As NESN also pointed out, Jones could be good "insurance" if the Pats decide to trade Malcolm Butler or if he leaves after the season. He's certainly shown the chops for the position with his play this season."

Jonathan Jones steps up for Patriots defense without Stephon Gilmore | nePatriotsLife.com - New England Patriots Fan Site, Blog, T-shirts



"Ever since, he’s been earning a larger and larger role for himself on the defense and recent injuries have now made him a regular. And he’s answering the call.

Jones has started in each of the last two weeks and played at least 85 percent of the defensive snaps in wins over the Oakland Raiders and Miami Dolphins. In those two starts, Jones has recorded 14 tackles and his first ever sack on Sunday against Miami."

Patriots CB Jonathan Jones becoming a Bill Belichick favorite

 

[maineman209]

I don’t see how anyone can expect much of a workload for Hightower. I see him as Mayo part II—great talent with a body that won’t hold up

Yeah (sigh).

Over his first five seasons, HT missed 13 games, primarily with knee issues that began in 2013 (when he played his only, full 16-game regular season, ironically). In spite of that, he averaged over 800 snaps/season from 2012 thru 2016.

Then, he missed 11 games this past season - the first couple with a knee issue, then the rest with a torn pec that apparently dates back to the end of the 2016 season.

It hasn't been quite Bob Sanders-level unavailability, but still ...

 

[doesntmatter1]

Our defense had serious problems up the gut when Branch became useless. Jonathan Guy, Malcolm Brown, and Elandon Roberts were the main culprits imo. They all, especially Roberts, weren't physical enough and seemed a little out of control. I'd consider cutting all three. Late into the season, Ricky Jean Francis seemed to be our best run defender and that is sad considering we easily tossed him to the side. Just the size of Shelton and Valentine will hopefully help.

 

[maineman209]

Our defense had serious problems up the gut when Branch became useless. Jonathan Guy, Malcolm Brown, and Elandon Roberts were the main culprits imo. They all, especially Roberts, weren't physical enough and seemed a little out of control. I'd consider cutting all three. Late into the season, Ricky Jean Francis seemed to be our best run defender and that is sad considering we easily tossed him to the side. Just the size of Shelton and Valentine will hopefully help.

Guy, Brown and Roberts were all playing out of their normal roles/positions and way beyond their normal assignments simply because there wasn't anybody else to take on the jobs.

Cut all three?? ROTFLMFAO!

BTW - Francois wasn't "tossed aside." He opted out of re-signing - and he said so publicly.

BTW#2 - It's Lawrence Guy.