Slater to Return in 2023

[Huckleberry1]

The NFL HOF bases enshrinement on on-field achievements and contributions to the game.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[TheRainMaker]

When people are arguing over a 37 year old special teamer....

 

[RobertWeathers]

And you let me down. I asked you to justify qualifying Slater as a great ST player as it relates to the importance and impact of other all time ST players and you gave me 'hidden yardage.'

I really don't care.

If you can't correlate the two then you don't understand football and it's importance on that level.

 

[DaBruinz]

I know what hidden yardage is. How much of this miniscule yardage (comparatively) is Slater accounting for? You say 'hidden yardage' and Slater like they're synonymous.

You clearly have no clue what "hidden yardage" is if you think it is miniscule.

 

[DaBruinz]

At least you're trying. That's a very good post (except for the sarcasm) but it doesn't change my mind.

I mention the offensive touches because it separates Slater from many other all time great STers who contributed significantly in other phases.

Slater has had an increasing number of ST snaps as NFL rule changes have increased the number of ST plays (on kickoffs specifically) that merely end in a dead ball (no return). Again, the fact that he's on the field during a small percentage of total plays in a game does not necessarily mean anything. How and what is he producing from being involved in those plays? There's got to be something you can point to. Other than 0.8 tackles per game and a downed punt here and there.


Hidden yardage in fact is relatively minor. But that's mostly beside the point. We're talking about Slater here and not hidden yardage in total. I want to know how we can determine Slater's specific contribution to hidden yardage with some sort of calculation.

You just proved you're a complete idiot.
No. Offensive touches don't do anything to separate Slater from other "All time great" STers because there aren't as many as you'd like people to believe. When a player is a 5 time ALL-PRO, that speaks volumes about them.. The fact you refuse to even take it into consideration shows how intellectually challenged you are.

Rule changes have ZERO to do with Slater getting MORE snaps.
Being on the field for 22 snaps (out of 60) is a full third of the game. Not a "small percentage".

You want to know how to determine Slater's specific contribution? Take your head out of your arse, get off the board and go learn something about the game of football. Right now, you're nothing but a stat-ass who doesn't understand what he's looking at.

 

[DaBruinz]

The NFL HOF bases enshrinement on on-field achievements and contributions to the game.

5 time ALL-PRO says it all.

 

[They_Hate_We]

One more year for Schooler to be taught "don't give the ball to Bill".

I've always liked Slater!

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Not everything on the football field can be quantified with a stat. Sometimes you need your eyes and football players' and coaches know what Slater contributes.

 

[crawhammer]

Hidden Yardage is the sum of all plays and yards which don't appear in the statistical records. It factors in several things such as penalty yardage, interception return yardage, fumble recovery yardage, punt and KO returns, and field position resulting from ST. The majority of which Slater would impact very little. The hidden yardage argument doesn't work when trying to justify Slater's value. The connection is at best too vague and indeterminant.

Primitive Analytics: Bill Parcells’ Hidden Yardage

Introduction Honest question: Do you think analytics are good for football? If you are reading this, I assume you have …

bigplayaction.wordpress.com

By the way, here are few conclusions stated in your source:

1. 100 hidden yards is only associated with approximately a field goal more per game, which is a long cry from the touchdown that Parcells believed in.

2. Hidden yards only explain 7.2% of the points scored.

3. Hidden yards only explains approximately 4% of the likelihood of winning a game.

Thank you for providing the source.

 

[crawhammer]

the same thing is true for you though - where are the stats that back up your claims? the ones you have access to are basically worthless as well... What can you point to that backs up your claims that he isnt worth it?

My claim is Slater is overvalued by PatsFans.com and he's not a HOFer. I gave stats already but again...

Slater's career highlights...

1 reception
1 blocked punt
1 forced fumble
1 fumble recovery
1 TD (on the above recovery)
35 yard KO return (career long)
3 offensive touches
2% offensive snap percentage
0.8 ST tackles per game

There's your HOFer. Where are your stats?

 

[crawhammer]

If you can't correlate the two then you don't understand football and it's importance on that level.

You literally cannot correlate the two. I already explained it, the connection between Slater and hidden yardage is at best too vague and indeterminant. Then take into account that a vast majority of hidden yardage is unrelated to Slater (because he's not on the field or not touching the ball when he is). How about you explain your impression of "the correlation" as opposed to just repeating I'm an idiot.

 

[crawhammer]

You clearly have no clue what "hidden yardage" is if you think it is miniscule.

Hidden yards only explains approximately 4% of the likelihood of winning a game. From your source.

 

[crawhammer]

5 time ALL-PRO says it all.

5 time all pro (really 2) as a gunner qualifies someone for the NFL HOF?

 

[crawhammer]

You just proved you're a complete idiot.
No. Offensive touches don't do anything to separate Slater from other "All time great" STers because there aren't as many as you'd like people to believe. When a player is a 5 time ALL-PRO, that speaks volumes about them.. The fact you refuse to even take it into consideration shows how intellectually challenged you are.

Rule changes have ZERO to do with Slater getting MORE snaps.
Being on the field for 22 snaps (out of 60) is a full third of the game. Not a "small percentage".

You want to know how to determine Slater's specific contribution? Take your head out of your arse, get off the board and go learn something about the game of football. Right now, you're nothing but a stat-ass who doesn't understand what he's looking at.

Pardon me but you're the one providing resources that work against your arguments. Try understanding what you're reading before you call me an idiot.

 

[Pape]

My claim is Slater is overvalued by PatsFans.com and he's not a HOFer. I gave stats already but again...

Slater's career highlights...

1 reception
1 blocked punt
1 forced fumble
1 fumble recovery
1 TD (on the above recovery)
35 yard KO return (career long)
3 offensive touches
2% offensive snap percentage
0.8 ST tackles per game

There's your HOFer. Where are your stats?

Yeah I've seen your stats. So what? What good are those numbers without the context of the effectiveness of the squad as a whole?

For me, my stats would include 5 all pro teams. pretty much says it all. Not pro bowl, all pro.

Multi time captain on the Patriots. I haven't bothered to look that number up. So maybe fire up the Twitter machine and ask his teammates?

And I would add my eyes. Watching him play.

Is he a hall of famer? No. But his name will at least be brought up in the discussion. For a career long special teamer, that's pretty special. Most players relegated to special teams only are the guys who hang around for a few seasons before they are out of the league.

At this point there is no further use in talking to you about this. You are either unwilling or unable to discern what makes a player like slater special.

 

[Zuma]

Can we have a separate The Patriots Suck sub-forum?

 

[crawhammer]

No. Offensive touches don't do anything to separate Slater from other "All time great" STers because there aren't as many as you'd like people to believe.

Devin Hester (255 receptions, 36 rushing attempts & 17 TDs)
Brian Mitchell (255 receptions, 388 rushing attempts & 16 TDs)
Dante Hall (162 receptions, 54 rushing attempts & 9 TDs)
Josh Cribbs (110 receptions, 141 rushing attempts & 9 TDs)
Eric Metcalf (541 receptions, 630 rushing attempts & 43 TDs)
Dave Meggett (336 receptions, 398 rushing attempts & 19 TDs)
Darren Sproles (553 receptions, 732 rushing attempts & 55 TDs)
Desmond Howard (123 receptions, 12 rushing attempts & 7 TDs)
Antwaan Randle El (370 receptions, 79 rushing attempts & 15 TDs)
Leon Washington (168 receptions, 487 rushing attempts & 20 TDs)
Cordarrelle Patterson (289 receptions, 464 rushing attempts & 37 TDs)
Glyn Milburn (170 receptions, 183 rushing attempts & 8 TDs)
Gale Sayers (112 receptions, 991 rushing attempts & 48 TDs)

Matthew Slater (1 receptions, 2 rushing attempts & 0 TDs)

 

[crawhammer]

You are either unwilling or unable to discern what makes a player like slater special.

He plays for special teams?

 

[RobertWeathers]

You literally cannot correlate the two. I already explained it, the connection between Slater and hidden yardage is at best too vague and indeterminant. Then take into account that a vast majority of hidden yardage is unrelated to Slater (because he's not on the field or not touching the ball when he is). How about you explain your impression of "the correlation" as opposed to just repeating I'm an idiot.

I didn't call you and idiot because I don't think you are one. I said you are ignorant pertaining to this aspect of football and cannot grasp its importance.

You can absolutely correlate them. I'll show you...

When a gunner beats the blocking scheme and makes a tackle, that limits potential return yardage.

When a gunner redirects the returner or is double-teamed (which Slater is all the time) on the return, that allows another player to make a return-limiting tackle. That is hidden yardage.

Coaches look at the disruption. They look at a punt return which went for a FC or the returner disengages because of the gunner and lets the ball bounce and be downed or lastly, went for a 5yd return b/c Slater beat his blockers and was quickly down the field and in the returner's grill. All of these are circumstances of hidden yardage.

This has a cascading effect on the entire game. A great special teams play limits offensive starting field position which means if the D does its job it will provide better starting FP for the offense. That is another example of hidden yardage. During the course of a game this hidden yardage can be small or significant and game-altering.

I know you'll have a hard time quantifying this and I'll tend to agree it's not easily quantifiable. You'll have to watch some film of Slater doing these three things, come to your own conclusion on what his impact his on each of those plays and what hidden yardage he accounts for. Depending on how well you understand the coverage design, lane containment, etc and his role in the play, then you might appreciate his value and how he directly impacts games.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Mathew for ST coach