Silver Lining... Sony Michel

[captain stone]

I'll never understand blaming the offense for that loss. The production they had already contributed up to that pivotal moment should have won 99% of games. The reason it didn't is on the defense.

I generally agree, but we left a Lot of points on the field during the first half that had No Business Whatsoever being left there.

 

[slifersd]

The system has worked FAR better than any system any team has developed ever.

Definitely not his draft the last seven years. I am not saying BB the GM doesn't have his merits or he should be fired tomorrow morning, but we have to start improving our draft records, particularly when it comes to offensive skill position players. A few more Michel/Harry level draft picks will set us back even further.

 

[Ring 6]

Definitely not his draft the last seven years. I am not saying BB the GM doesn't have his merits or he should be fired tomorrow morning, but we have to start improving our draft records, info particularly when it comes to offensive skill position players. A few more Michel/Harry level draft picks will set us back even further.

I’m talk about the system. Every organization makes good moves, bad moves and mediocre moves. The key is how you mold those decisions into a team.

 

[slifersd]

I’m talk about the system. Every organization makes good moves, bad moves and mediocre moves. The key is how you mold those decisions into a team.

I get that. You are right, no team is built through the draft only. All I am saying is, not being able to draft well has hurt us as a team. It's like building an engine with a broken piece. If we can modify our draft strategy and improve that part, this whole system would function even better.

 

[Ring 6]

I get that. You are right, no team is built through the draft only. All I am saying is, not being able to draft well has hurt us as a team. It's like building an engine with a broken piece. If we can modify our draft strategy and improve that part, this whole system would function even better.

It hurt one year after losing the qb, having no one available, having a bunch of players opt out and another group leave while we couldn’t afford to keep them or replace the because we had no cap room.
It’s one factor in one bad year, and really one that is being given way too much blame.
Next year the cap space that was missing and needed this year to build a high caliber team will be there. Hopefully due to that a competent qb will be as well and we will see how the drafting so far fits in to that.

 

[DaBruinz]

No reason to get testy, argue my points, don't throw random insults. I follow this team just like you do, or else I wouldn't have known who the heck Jordan Richards is.

Boy, you have a low expectation of the draft, that is all I got out of what you wrote there. I mean, I guess if we don't actually draft nothing but dudes who got cut in training camp, that's considered a success by your standard? Hell, why don't we just draft a punter in the first round next year? He can have a 10 year career, and you can call that a successful draft pick. Your method of evaluation is...interesting, I guess.

I really love your point about needing to add to positions to ensure the pipeline is full. I think that is exactly what a team should do. I am just not sure why BB only does that to corners/secondary and does nothing with WR and TE. Is it in the NFL rule book that we can only have one TE on the roster? I actually am not mad that BB spends a lot of resources on the secondary, but I have an issue when he completely ignores offensive skill positions because of it. Stay consistent with your approach.

Alright, I guess you are a reader of football books lol. Tell me, my man, who in the scouting circle thinks Harry was a good pick up? Or for that matter, Duke Dawson, Jordan Richards (even in his sixth season of being a special team only player as a second round pick) or Cyrus Jones (heart issue or not, the guy got ran out of town by Pats fans for being completely awful). You claim I don't watch games or know anything about this team, what game did you watch where any of those guys played well? Harry is bad because of Cam? Was he better when Brady was here? The most accurate QB in history didn't even target him because he didn't know what he was doing. I didn't write off Michel, BB did that when he gave his job to Harris. If Michel is this amazing RB, how come BB didn't want to play him at all even after he came back from IR? Coach's decisions speak louder than any random books. Also kind of funny you claim I only focus on score boards when all you can about Michel is 5.9YPC lol. Isn't that scoreboard material?

There were no "random insults". Your knowledge of the game is ridiculously limited. As is your understanding of Belichick and how he addresses the needs of the team. The fact that you think he's not consistent in that approach just shows how ridiculous you are.

No. I don't have "low expectations" of the draft. I'm going by historical data that shows less than 1% of 7th rounders actually amount to something in the NFL. So, for Izzo to have become a JAG at this point is a good thing. The rest of your statement is just illogical and plain stupidity and has ZERO to do with what I stated.

Harry was a consensus 1st round pick. You saying otherwise shows you don't know WTF you are talking about. Jones wasn't completely awful and didn't get run out of town by Fans. These sorts of comments from you just enforce that your knowledge isn't close to being as good as you think.

Brady isn't the "most accurate QB in history". It's also well known that Brady froze out ALL of last year's rookies because he felt they weren't putting in the time. Yet it was Troy Brown who mentioned this and said that Brady was incorrect about Harry, Meyers and Olzsewski since it was Brown who was working with them all the time when they weren't at practice.

BB didn't write off Michel. Michel wasn't completely healthy when he was activated. They activated him because it was either that or lose him for the season.

OH. And telling you to read Steven Belichick's Book isn't just some "random book." It was written by Belichick's father and is considered to be one of the holy grails of scouting football. Your disdain for being offered resources that would improve your understanding of the game speaks volumes about you and your arrogance.

No. Mentioning Michel's 5.9YPC isn't "scoreboard material". Michel was part of the reason we won it all in 2018 during his rookie year. It's called using the facts in context. Something you have no idea how to do.

It's plainly clear to me that discussing anything further with you is fruitless. Bye Bye.

 

[slifersd]

There were no "random insults". Your knowledge of the game is ridiculously limited. As is your understanding of Belichick and how he addresses the needs of the team. The fact that you think he's not consistent in that approach just shows how ridiculous you are.

No. I don't have "low expectations" of the draft. I'm going by historical data that shows less than 1% of 7th rounders actually amount to something in the NFL. So, for Izzo to have become a JAG at this point is a good thing. The rest of your statement is just illogical and plain stupidity and has ZERO to do with what I stated.

Harry was a consensus 1st round pick. You saying otherwise shows you don't know WTF you are talking about. Jones wasn't completely awful and didn't get run out of town by Fans. These sorts of comments from you just enforce that your knowledge isn't close to being as good as you think.

Brady isn't the "most accurate QB in history". It's also well known that Brady froze out ALL of last year's rookies because he felt they weren't putting in the time. Yet it was Troy Brown who mentioned this and said that Brady was incorrect about Harry, Meyers and Olzsewski since it was Brown who was working with them all the time when they weren't at practice.

BB didn't write off Michel. Michel wasn't completely healthy when he was activated. They activated him because it was either that or lose him for the season.

OH. And telling you to read Steven Belichick's Book isn't just some "random book." It was written by Belichick's father and is considered to be one of the holy grails of scouting football. Your disdain for being offered resources that would improve your understanding of the game speaks volumes about you and your arrogance.

No. Mentioning Michel's 5.9YPC isn't "scoreboard material". Michel was part of the reason we won it all in 2018 during his rookie year. It's called using the facts in context. Something you have no idea how to do.

It's plainly clear to me that discussing anything further with you is fruitless. Bye Bye.

Good lord man, take it easy, LOL! You just wrote two giant posts stating how i know nothing about football, doesn't know anything about the team and is ignorant of all facts. How is that not an insult, lol? Whatever man, if you think Ryan Izzo should be the starting tight end for an NFL franchise, then good on you. You are probably right, you and I will never agree on these things. Hopefully 2021 breeds better success for this team. Either way, happy to you to you and your family.

 

[crawhammer]

There were no "random insults". Your knowledge of the game is ridiculously limited. As is your understanding of Belichick and how he addresses the needs of the team. The fact that you think he's not consistent in that approach just shows how ridiculous you are.

No. I don't have "low expectations" of the draft. I'm going by historical data that shows less than 1% of 7th rounders actually amount to something in the NFL. So, for Izzo to have become a JAG at this point is a good thing. The rest of your statement is just illogical and plain stupidity and has ZERO to do with what I stated.

Harry was a consensus 1st round pick. You saying otherwise shows you don't know WTF you are talking about. Jones wasn't completely awful and didn't get run out of town by Fans. These sorts of comments from you just enforce that your knowledge isn't close to being as good as you think.

Brady isn't the "most accurate QB in history". It's also well known that Brady froze out ALL of last year's rookies because he felt they weren't putting in the time. Yet it was Troy Brown who mentioned this and said that Brady was incorrect about Harry, Meyers and Olzsewski since it was Brown who was working with them all the time when they weren't at practice.

BB didn't write off Michel. Michel wasn't completely healthy when he was activated. They activated him because it was either that or lose him for the season.

OH. And telling you to read Steven Belichick's Book isn't just some "random book." It was written by Belichick's father and is considered to be one of the holy grails of scouting football. Your disdain for being offered resources that would improve your understanding of the game speaks volumes about you and your arrogance.

No. Mentioning Michel's 5.9YPC isn't "scoreboard material". Michel was part of the reason we won it all in 2018 during his rookie year. It's called using the facts in context. Something you have no idea how to do.

It's plainly clear to me that discussing anything further with you is fruitless. Bye Bye.

Wow that's next level haughtiness.

Don't mind if I have a go?...

1. N'Keal Harry was not a consensus 1st round draft pick. At best some had him late 1st round however multiple publications did NOT project him as a 1st rounder including NFL.com, The Sporting News, Bleacher Report, Draft Wire and USA Today Sports.

2. Cyrus Jones, another Belichick draft bust, was awful and he was the target of ire from fans. He was a non-factor as a DB and a complete disaster as a punt returner for NE fumbling 5 times. He played only 14% of defensive snaps his rookie season, finishing with 7 tackles, 0 pass defenses, and 0 interceptions. He was inactive for the postseason. He never played a meaningful down for NE. He was Special Teams Player of the Week once as a Raven so he equals Matthew Slater in that respect (I couldn't resist the shot).

3. It's well known that Brady froze out all rookies last season? Really? Care to support that claim with some facts?

I mean, N'Keal Harry wasn't active until November of last season. He was targeted by Brady every game he played despite a 50% catch percentage. His target percentage has dropped slightly from last season (from 11% to 10%) so there's been no real change in attention from the quarterback during games. News flash, Harry is a bust. He's doesn't do anything particularly well and most things he does poorly.

Jakobi Meyers is a nice little find but we're not talking about Randy Moss here. Last season he was targeted on 10% of his snaps; this season he's been targeted on 12% of his snaps. That's relatively consistent despite there being less options in the passing game this season and Meyers looking improved from his rookie season. Meyers has not scored a TD yet so he needs some red zone work (and a real quarterback).

Gunner Olszewski is a special teams player. He's seen 7 total passing targets over 2 seasons.

Looks to me like you made a false claim.

4. I think most people agree Michel would be losing snaps to Harris had Harris remained healthy. Harris looks like the better RB and it seems probable he will be ahead of Michel on the depth chart heading into next season.

5. Steve Belichick's scouting book was published in 1962. Considering the evaluation of the game over the last 6 decades, I'd say it's probable Belichick's scouting strategies and insights may not translate as well with the modern NFL.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow that's next level haughtiness.

Don't mind if I have a go?...

1. N'Keal Harry was not a consensus 1st round draft pick. At best some had him late 1st round however multiple publications did NOT project him as a 1st rounder including NFL.com, The Sporting News, Bleacher Report, Draft Wire and USA Today Sports.

2. Cyrus Jones, another Belichick draft bust, was awful and he was the target of ire from fans. He was a non-factor as a DB and a complete disaster as a punt returner for NE fumbling 5 times. He played only 14% of defensive snaps his rookie season, finishing with 7 tackles, 0 pass defenses, and 0 interceptions. He was inactive for the postseason. He never played a meaningful down for NE. He was Special Teams Player of the Week once as a Raven so he equals Matthew Slater in that respect (I couldn't resist the shot).

3. It's well known that Brady froze out all rookies last season? Really? Care to support that claim with some facts?

I mean, N'Keal Harry wasn't active until November of last season. He was targeted by Brady every game he played despite a 50% catch percentage. His target percentage has dropped slightly from last season (from 11% to 10%) so there's been no real change in attention from the quarterback during games. News flash, Harry is a bust. He's doesn't do anything particularly well and most things he does poorly.

Jakobi Meyers is a nice little find but we're not talking about Randy Moss here. Last season he was targeted on 10% of his snaps; this season he's been targeted on 12% of his snaps. That's relatively consistent despite there being less options in the passing game this season and Meyers looking improved from his rookie season. Meyers has not scored a TD yet so he needs some red zone work (and a real quarterback).

Gunner Olszewski is a special teams player. He's seen 7 total passing targets over 2 seasons.

Looks to me like you made a false claim.

4. I think most people agree Michel would be losing snaps to Harris had Harris remained healthy. Harris looks like the better RB and it seems probable he will be ahead of Michel on the depth chart heading into next season.

5. Steve Belichick's scouting book was published in 1962. Considering the evaluation of the game over the last 6 decades, I'd say it's probable Belichick's scouting strategies and insights may not translate as well with the modern NFL.

Yes, I do mind because you've shown to be more ignorant than the other guy who was running his mouth.

1) You're talking out your Rear end. Harry WAS a consensus 1st round pick.

2) If you're going to make a rebuttal, you should make sure the person actually said what you claimed. No where did I say that Jones was spectacular. I said he wasn't run out of town by fans. He wasn't.. And your "shot" was pathetic and not even remotely close to anything I've said..

3) My claim isn't false. You clearly can't be bothered to do the research. And you clearly don't understand WTF you'te talking about in regards to Harry because

4) We're not talking about Michel losing reps to Harris. the Other nitwit was claiming that Michel sucked and that the only reason he got snaps again was because Harris was injured.

5) Steven Belichick's book may be 6 decades old, but it's still valid in terms of understanding how to scout players. You clearly haven't read it so everything you supposed is nothing but throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping it sticks.

Thank you for your ridiculous post.. Bye Bye.

 

[crawhammer]

Yes, I do mind because you've shown to be more ignorant than the other guy who was running his mouth.

Am I supposed to take you seriously? I can't tell. You literally called me ignorant then proceeded to reiterate your prior baseless comments without even a scintilla of regard for all of the counterpoints I had presented.

1) You're talking out your Rear end. Harry WAS a consensus 1st round pick.

No he wasn't. You can put your whole erroneous statement in CAPS, you're still WRONG. Do you not see all of the publications I referenced that did NOT have Harry going in the 1st round? I gave you 5 sources. You can add ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay; they both had Harry projected as a 2nd round pick. So, Harry WAS NOT a consensus 1st round pick at all.

2) If you're going to make a rebuttal, you should make sure the person actually said what you claimed. No where did I say that Jones was spectacular. I said he wasn't run out of town by fans. He wasn't.. And your "shot" was pathetic and not even remotely close to anything I've said..

I know what you said. I actually read the posts before responding. You said Jones wasn't awful and the fans didn't run him out of town. For a 2nd round pick, he was awful. He only played 14% of the defensive snaps and he did nothing with his limited opportunities. Belichick tried to salvage him as a punt returner but he fumbled that away too. As for the latter part, he was run out of town by fans, you see, that's not meant to be taken literally. Perhaps that your confusion? Understandable given your other comments. It's a figure of speech and an accurate one. Fans booed him and there wasn't any fuss about him getting (twice) waived by the Patriots in 2018.

The shot I took was at Slater. You even misread that.

3) My claim isn't false. You clearly can't be bothered to do the research. And you clearly don't understand WTF you'te talking about in regards to Harry because

Because? Were you going to say something else there? Try this... "I was wrong again."

You're yelling at me about research. I gave you data. You offered nothing but stubbornness. I'll repeat... Brady did not freeze out Gunner. The dude is a special teams player. He's only been targeted 7 times in 2 seasons. The coaching staff freezes him out of the offense, not Brady, not Cam, the coaching staff.

Jakobi essentially has the same target rate as last season when there were more options. So, if anything, he's seeing less targets this season than he should.

Do you recall Harry wasn't active until November of last season? Obviously nothing to do with Brady. Once he was getting game reps, Brady targeted him in every game despite a 50% catch percentage (which isn't good). His target percentage has dropped slightly from last season so he's actually getting less attention from Cam this season than he was from Brady last season. None of this adds up to Brady having froze out any rookie receivers.

4) We're not talking about Michel losing reps to Harris. the Other nitwit was claiming that Michel sucked and that the only reason he got snaps again was because Harris was injured.

Which is why I said that. If 'the other guy' said Michel was getting snaps because Harris is injured then it only stands to reason that Michel would be losing snaps to Harris if Harris had remained healthy. He and I are saying the same thing here. Don't be so obtuse.

5) Steven Belichick's book may be 6 decades old, but it's still valid in terms of understanding how to scout players. You clearly haven't read it so everything you supposed is nothing but throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping it sticks.

That's right, no, I haven't read Steve Belichick's scouting book that was published friggin more than a half century ago. Because firstly, what a waste of time, and secondly, the game has obviously evolved over that course of time. Maybe this explained Bill's difficulties with his drafts, he's reading this outdated draft encyclopedia.

It's a different game now, the athleticism and skill sets of players has changed, so correspondingly you're probably scouting a bit differently. It was run heavy league back then as well. League champion Green Bay clocked in a whopping 518 rush attempts compared with only 311 pass attempts (14 game season). Contrast that with Kansas City of last year, 375 rush attempts and 576 pass attempts. Imagine that, change. Time to archive Steve Belichick's geriatric scroll.

 

[203Pat]

Am I supposed to take you seriously? I can't tell. You literally called me ignorant then proceeded to reiterate your prior baseless comments without even a scintilla of regard for all of the counterpoints I had presented.


No he wasn't. You can put your whole erroneous statement in CAPS, you're still WRONG. Do you not see all of the publications I referenced that did NOT have Harry going in the 1st round? I gave you 5 sources. You can add ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay; they both had Harry projected as a 2nd round pick. So, Harry WAS NOT a consensus 1st round pick at all.


I know what you said. I actually read the posts before responding. You said Jones wasn't awful and the fans didn't run him out of town. For a 2nd round pick, he was awful. He only played 14% of the defensive snaps and he did nothing with his limited opportunities. Belichick tried to salvage him as a punt returner but he fumbled that away too. As for the latter part, he was run out of town by fans, you see, that's not meant to be taken literally. Perhaps that your confusion? Understandable given your other comments. It's a figure of speech and an accurate one. Fans booed him and there wasn't any fuss about him getting (twice) waived by the Patriots in 2018.

The shot I took was at Slater. You even misread that.


Because? Were you going to say something else there? Try this... "I was wrong again."

You're yelling at me about research. I gave you data. You offered nothing but stubbornness. I'll repeat... Brady did not freeze out Gunner. The dude is a special teams player. He's only been targeted 7 times in 2 seasons. The coaching staff freezes him out of the offense, not Brady, not Cam, the coaching staff.

Jakobi essentially has the same target rate as last season when there were more options. So, if anything, he's seeing less targets this season than he should.

Do you recall Harry wasn't active until November of last season? Obviously nothing to do with Brady. Once he was getting game reps, Brady targeted him in every game despite a 50% catch percentage (which isn't good). His target percentage has dropped slightly from last season so he's actually getting less attention from Cam this season than he was from Brady last season. None of this adds up to Brady having froze out any rookie receivers.


Which is why I said that. If 'the other guy' said Michel was getting snaps because Harris is injured then it only stands to reason that Michel would be losing snaps to Harris if Harris had remained healthy. He and I are saying the same thing here. Don't be so obtuse.


That's right, no, I haven't read Steve Belichick's scouting book that was published friggin more than a half century ago. Because firstly, what a waste of time, and secondly, the game has obviously evolved over that course of time. Maybe this explained Bill's difficulties with his drafts, he's reading this outdated draft encyclopedia.

It's a different game now, the athleticism and skill sets of players has changed, so correspondingly you're probably scouting a bit differently. It was run heavy league back then as well. League champion Green Bay clocked in a whopping 518 rush attempts compared with only 311 pass attempts (14 game season). Contrast that with Kansas City of last year, 375 rush attempts and 576 pass attempts. Imagine that, change. Time to archive Steve Belichick's geriatric scroll.

He's not worth it. You'll just be called an idiot over and over while he refuses to acknowledge any point that isn't his.

 

[sb1]

Bump. Hope this is a sign of things to come for him.

 

[203Pat]

Bump. Hope this is a sign of things to come for him.

He looks quicker and shiftier and maybe someone on the staff realized he’s physically capable of catching a football.

 

[sb1]

He looks quicker and shiftier and maybe someone on the staff realized he’s physically capable of catching a football.

Hope he is healthy and no need for surgery this offseason. That would be good too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is no question Chubb is a superior player to Sony. That is no longer a question.

For me, the real question is are these last few games in which Sony showed some decent playmaking and burst going to carry into the 2021 season?

 

[condon84]

Wow that's next level haughtiness.

Don't mind if I have a go?...

1. N'Keal Harry was not a consensus 1st round draft pick. At best some had him late 1st round however multiple publications did NOT project him as a 1st rounder including NFL.com, The Sporting News, Bleacher Report, Draft Wire and USA Today Sports.

2. Cyrus Jones, another Belichick draft bust, was awful and he was the target of ire from fans. He was a non-factor as a DB and a complete disaster as a punt returner for NE fumbling 5 times. He played only 14% of defensive snaps his rookie season, finishing with 7 tackles, 0 pass defenses, and 0 interceptions. He was inactive for the postseason. He never played a meaningful down for NE. He was Special Teams Player of the Week once as a Raven so he equals Matthew Slater in that respect (I couldn't resist the shot).

3. It's well known that Brady froze out all rookies last season? Really? Care to support that claim with some facts?

I mean, N'Keal Harry wasn't active until November of last season. He was targeted by Brady every game he played despite a 50% catch percentage. His target percentage has dropped slightly from last season (from 11% to 10%) so there's been no real change in attention from the quarterback during games. News flash, Harry is a bust. He's doesn't do anything particularly well and most things he does poorly.

Jakobi Meyers is a nice little find but we're not talking about Randy Moss here. Last season he was targeted on 10% of his snaps; this season he's been targeted on 12% of his snaps. That's relatively consistent despite there being less options in the passing game this season and Meyers looking improved from his rookie season. Meyers has not scored a TD yet so he needs some red zone work (and a real quarterback).

Gunner Olszewski is a special teams player. He's seen 7 total passing targets over 2 seasons.

Looks to me like you made a false claim.

4. I think most people agree Michel would be losing snaps to Harris had Harris remained healthy. Harris looks like the better RB and it seems probable he will be ahead of Michel on the depth chart heading into next season.

5. Steve Belichick's scouting book was published in 1962. Considering the evaluation of the game over the last 6 decades, I'd say it's probable Belichick's scouting strategies and insights may not translate as well with the modern NFL.

If Bill used his dad's scouting strategies and used it to a tune of 6 SBs, 9 SB births, 17 division titles in 19 years, all in the current 'modern' football, then i'd say it's a pretty solid strategy. No such thing as perfect so mistakes have been made, but the hyperbole that some posters on this board go to extreme lengths to trash BB is absurd.

 

[ashley]

 

[sb1]

That’s the Sony we were hoping we’d get when we drafted him.

Can he stay healthy and can he do all of that over a 16 game season. We’ll see.

 

[crawhammer]

If Bill used his dad's scouting strategies and used it to a tune of 6 SBs, 9 SB births, 17 division titles in 19 years, all in the current 'modern' football, then i'd say it's a pretty solid strategy. No such thing as perfect so mistakes have been made, but the hyperbole that some posters on this board go to extreme lengths to trash BB is absurd.

So they won all those Super Bowls because of Bill's exemplary drafts? The hyperbole of some posters to defend Belichick is absurd.

We're only discussing the scout book because some guy has delusions of grandeur because he supposedly read it. I really don't care what Bill does with the book, the fact remains his drafts over the last decade have been subpar.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Let's hope he can have a whole off season to train injury free. If he can run and catch next year that would be great. Still seems to struggle redirecting, like bouncing outside, if the designed hole is closed, but once past the D Line he is great at running through LBs until the secondary catches him.