Shock night might not be over: Butler rumours

[long distance]

If there is any truth to this (I doubt it) it better be for an established defensive playmaker.
The only way this would seemingly hold validity is if Gilmore's concussion is fine and BB/MP feel he is ready to be that solidly legit CB + JBad has shown enough that they feel confident he is a player they can rely on + Rowe is healthy/ready to return (and BB/MP feel like this guy is ready to be a decent corner). That's A LOT of ifs.

With that said, when BB doesn't intend on trying to re-sign a player like Butler, I wouldn't put it past BB to try and get value. But all the ifs make trading Butler SERIOUSLY risky.
IMHO a playmaker is just what this D needs. If High had stayed healthy we had it. Since he's gone I'd be ecstatic if we could get a new playmaker. Since I don't see that happening it is too risky to trade Butler for 2018 value when 2017 is another viable SB year (especially with no team establishing themselves as a dominant-high mountain that will be tough to beat [a la Bears 85, Rams 2001, Seahawks 2012 etc etc ).

Love Butler. Love High. But #1 playmaker on Pats D is McCourty. Gilmore is paid like one and BB doesn't pay easy.

Usually BBs principles are not complicated. Players not extended on time are on trade block.

 

[supafly]

What playmakers are available?
Ziggy Ansah?

After he turned down big money to stay in DET, he claimed that he was seeking contract advice from Ndomikong Suh. Unless you’re expecting Belichick to pay 15m a year on a long term deal, I’m guessing that he goes somewhere else.

 

[primetime]

How many times has any NFL player commanded multiple first round picks in trade value (let alone a backup QB), and when was the last time that it happened? Just curious as to where some of these ideas come from.

Sam Bradford netted a 1st and 4th. Carson Palmer netted a 1st and 2nd, Cutler netted two 1sts, a 3rd, and a quality backup in Orton. Bledsoe and Trent Green netted 1sts, though Green was packages with a 4th. Brad Johnson got a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Rob Johnson a 1st and 4th. Rick Miter, Craig Erickson, Jeff George.

With one exception, that being the inexplicable Rob Johnson trade, all of these guys had several years of starts and were mostly high draft picks, with several 1st and 2nd overalls among them. Several had extenuating circumstances, like Bradford being desperation from a good team who lost their QB in the preseason. In other words, they weren't Garoppolo.

The only veterans who netted multiple 1sts were Cutler and George. Cutler had been considered a rising star in Denver and had been a top pick, and George was a 1st overall and had several good seasons under his belt. Both left due to locker room issues.

 

[long distance]

Sorry but trading Butler mid season would be a flat out mistake. Unless you are getting a first rounder or another great player at a major need, don't even consider it.

In one of today's trade predictions this is how Butler was evaluated:

1. Patriots trade CB Malcolm Butler to the Saints or Eagles for a 2018 fourth-round pick.

Evaluations of Pats fans are normally much higher than reality (remember Collins) which is good.

 

[primetime]

So, you have zero examples of a team parting with 2 first rounders.

Cutler and George. Neither is comparable to Garoppolo. I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

[Kdo5]

In one of today's trade predictions this is how Butler was evaluated:

1. Patriots trade CB Malcolm Butler to the Saints or Eagles for a 2018 fourth-round pick.

Evaluations of Pats fans are normally much higher than reality (remember Collins) which is good.

No goddamn way. The defense has finally come together and Butler is no small reason why.

 

[supafly]

Cutler and George. Neither is comparable to Garoppolo. I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Sorry, I didn’t see the example of Cutler.

George had to have happened about 20 years ago, so really, all we have to go on lately is one dumb ass who gave up 2 firsts for Jay freaking Cutler. Point being that it’s extremely rare.

I feel like someone gave up multiple firsts for Joey Galloway too, back in the day, but I can’t remember.

 

[Pats1989]

There better be a dam good player comimg back if your going to trade an all pro CB.

 

[primetime]

In one of today's trade predictions this is how Butler was evaluated:

1. Patriots trade CB Malcolm Butler to the Saints or Eagles for a 2018 fourth-round pick.

Evaluations of Pats fans are normally much higher than reality (remember Collins) which is good.

To be fair, this is less reflective of Butler's talent than his contract situation. Similar to Collins, any team trading for Butler gets him for half a season then is going to have to pony up at the end of the year or else lose him for nothing. That's a tough pill to swallow for anything more than a mid-rounder.

 

[Love The Drake]

After he turned down big money to stay in DET, he claimed that he was seeking contract advice from Ndomikong Suh. Unless you’re expecting Belichick to pay 15m a year on a long term deal, I’m guessing that he goes somewhere else.

We did with Gilmore.

 

[primetime]

Sorry, I didn’t see the example of Cutler.

George had to have happened about 20 years ago, so really, all we have to go on lately is one dumb ass who gave up 2 firsts for Jay freaking Cutler. Point being that it’s extremely rare.

I feel like someone gave up multiple firsts for Joey Galloway too, back in the day, but I can’t remember.

The gold standard held out for speculative trades like this is Schaub, which was two 2nds and a swap of 1st rounders (Falcons moved up to 8 from 10, so not a huge difference). But that was in the off-season. And it happened once. And the franchise making the trade was desperate for a viable quarterback after David Carr was shellshocked.

 

[long distance]

To be fair, this is less reflective of Butler's talent than his contract situation. Similar to Collins, any team trading for Butler gets him for half a season then is going to have to pony up at the end of the year or else lose him for nothing. That's a tough pill to swallow for anything more than a mid-rounder.

Of course. Thought it didn't need explanation here.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

How many times has any NFL player commanded multiple first round picks in trade value (let alone a backup QB), and when was the last time that it happened? Just curious as to where some of these ideas come from.

The Plunkett trade in 76? 3 firsts and a second?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

After he turned down big money to stay in DET, he claimed that he was seeking contract advice from Ndomikong Suh. Unless you’re expecting Belichick to pay 15m a year on a long term deal, I’m guessing that he goes somewhere else.

Can the guy put up more sacks? He's not even worth 15 mil but some idiot out there will pay him that.

 

[Joey007]

Bill please at least just let him finish the season here.

 

[supafly]

The Plunkett trade in 76? 3 firsts and a second?

Well, yeah, but I was thinking more along the lines of something in the current era of the salary cap. Like others have mentioned, we’ve seen some weird stuff with Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams back in the day, too.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Well, yeah, but I was thinking more along the lines of something in the current era of the salary cap. Like others have mentioned, we’ve seen some weird stuff with Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams back in the day, too.

yeah - ancient news but Pats-related. More recently the Redskins gave up 3 firsts and a second to move up to pick RG3. Not apples to apples comparison, but shows how desperate (and foolish) teams can get when they need a quarterback.

 

[FourierSeries]

A Gilmore/Bademosi starting CB tandem.



I approve.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Bill please at least just let him finish the season here.

Amen brother! Butler had a rough start to the year, but the minute Gilmore got concussed, butler started playing like an all pro again!!

Hhhmmmmm!!!! Maybe McCourty needs to whack Gilmore upside the head again with gronkowski’s bedpan the day before he Denver game!!!

Ps: original whacking of gilmore’s Head by McCourty with gronkowski’s bedpan reported by ESPN! So you know it must be accurate!!!

 

[dafoe2016]

I don't see any way this defense could recover from the loss of Butler. It's already shaky.