X's & O's Seahawks had a tell on Patriots offense in Super Bowl, defender claims

[LightSkinSmurf]

We have short memories. It was only 2 months ago that offense was our crown jewel and many here pondered if the defense was championship caliber.

I think it's more accurate to say 2 months ago Maye was our crown jewel. Then he turned into a pumpkin in the playoffs minus a few great throws here and there. The defense definitely stepped up in the playoffs and Maye did the opposite.

 

[Tunescribe]

The season is over. A hot wash of what happened and what needs to be corrected is now. Fault finding is the only way to improve and correct those mistakes. If you don't do that, you will never get better.

We are fans, not team staff; much of the scapegoating going on here is ill-informed conjecture and speculation. But OF COURSE, Vrabel and the front office will take a hard look at needed improvements. He alluded to "difficult decisions" ahead in his season wrap-up presser.

 

[DaBruinz]

My money is on SNF week 1 Pats @ Buffalo's new stadium.

My guess is that the NFL is going to give the Bills a softball on that.. Probably the Jets.

 

[DaBruinz]

Vrabs though fantastic goes by feel for the most part and also what his gut tells him. Listening to parts of his pre Super Bowl pitch, it was all about “ I can’t wait to see you perform “ etc. The Seahawks spent their time in the darks arts of the Art of War. We were not prepared for an opponent who had studied us. Principal number 2. Know the enemy and know yourself. We lacked self assessment and misjudged their strengths and weaknesses. We had no way to adapt to game conditions. Those three and out after the first half were the most telling.
Though I can’t say what I do in real life, my area matched very well with BB and his affinity for the Art of War principles. I was shocked Spillane told the whole world he was starting. You should never do that. Hopefully Vrabs learns but he got my antenna raised with his declaration that Campbell is the left tackle. That tells me he is keeping to his gut again, instead of continuing with constant evaluation.

According to you, Vrabel and this highly experienced staff doesn't do any game planning, doesn't do any self-assessment and is incompetent in regards to understanding the teams own strengths and weaknesses. Despite the fact we've seen them make 2nd half adjustments in pretty much every game this year. You don't flip a team around the way he did by not doing those things.

You're completely ignoring that those 3 and outs were on players failing to execute the plays properly. Not on coaching.

Spillane saying that he was starting was a nothing burger. I can guarantee you that Seattle was prepping for him to be on the field as the starter.

 

[Steve102]

We are fans, not team staff; much of the scapegoating going on here is ill-informed conjecture and speculation. But OF COURSE, Vrabel and the front office will take a hard look at needed improvements. He alluded to "difficult decisions" ahead in his season wrap-up presser.

This is unacceptable. As a fan, I know WAY more than the staff. I am so smart, I can discern this information thru my television. And the force. I use the force. Yup, that's it. Thru the force, I gain wisdom. I am smarter then those dopes down on Route 1. They should hire half the posters here and let them run it. They are all seeing, and all knowing. All thru the TV broadcast. Being at the practice, meetings, locker room and you know, actually coaching the players is over rated anyway. Waste of time. I can tell that the QB isn't hurt and he just isn't Tom Brady sucks. Same for the alligator armed left tackle. Should just trade him to the Canadian Football league for a bag of balls. Put their heads on a lance and set them at the exits on 495. Then the next guys will learn what not to do.

 

[p8ryts]

This is unacceptable. As a fan, I know WAY more than the staff. I am so smart, I can discern this information thru my television. And the force. I use the force. Yup, that's it. Thru the force, I gain wisdom. I am smarter then those dopes down on Route 1. They should hire half the posters here and let them run it. They are all seeing, and all knowing. All thru the TV broadcast. Being at the practice, meetings, locker room and you know, actually coaching the players is over rated anyway. Waste of time. I can tell that the QB isn't hurt and he just isn't Tom Brady sucks. Same for the alligator armed left tackle. Should just trade him to the Canadian Football league for a bag of balls. Put their heads on a lance and set them at the exits on 495. Then the next guys will learn what not to do.

We are as one.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes, you need to put yourself into your adversary’s perspective and look at how you’ll attack yourself.

The success of Seattle’s defense shows that Josh and his staff did not do this, at least not effectively.

How would that have countered Maye's throws being off? There were numerous plays where Maye had the time to throw and he made a bad throw. How many throws did he make that were just OFF.

People talk about players improving and such, but I want to point out that Dave Andrews never improved his ability to pick up delayed blitzes during his career as a Patriot. And he had Scarnecchia as his OC. Bradbury has had an issue picking up stunts all year. Jared Wilson has had numerous issues all year. He improved during the regular season, but reverted back to being no better than Layden Robinson during the play-offs. Why? How is that on the coaches? ;

 

[DaBruinz]

The season is over. A hot wash of what happened and what needs to be corrected is now. Fault finding is the only way to improve and correct those mistakes. If you don't do that, you will never get better.

Yet, everyone seems to be pointing the finger at Coaches and not player execution.

I mean, the TD to Barner was the exact play that had beaten the Pats Defense for a TD earlier in the year. That was player execution.

Maye's throws being off aren't on coaching. It's on the player.
Bradbury failing to pick up stunts is on him. It's been an issue he's had all year.
Wilson regressed in the post-season. Maybe he was playing tentative because of the concussion he'd suffered. Maybe it was something else.. But he reverted back to playing the way he had in the 1st quarter of the season.

Campbell, we know now, was playing with an injured knee.

Milt Williams failing to wrap up numerous tackles is on him. Not coaching.
There were several times that Pats players over-ran plays, taking themselves out of position.

But many seems to be harping on the Coaches because of some BS that Witherspoon claimed.

What is hilarious about the video above is that he's claiming to know where Wilson's eyes were looking based on Wilson's helmet. Despite numerous time, the view was from behind and you couldn't really tell where his helmet was pointing. Yet, people are eating it up..

 

[tasmlab]

Pink Stripes

 

[The Gr8est]

Noise. Chaff. Making themselves look good.

The reports in the beginning of this thread conflate different kids of analysis, and seem to call tendencies “tells” which is not consistent with accepted usage.

They found a bunch of different things in their film study. They may have found some true tells but if they did they wouldn’t specify what they are. They also figured out a lot of tendencies that could be useful, like Josh’s penchant for first down runs up the gut for min8mal gain lol.

If there are true tells to be found we should be finding them during self scouting. That should be routine. If it’s not we need to improve that omission.

Wasn’t that part of what Ernie Adams did?

I have no problem with what the Seahawks did. That is what a competent coaching staff should do.

That’s football.

What bothers me is that if the tables were reversed and the Pats had done it, there would be people calling for an investigation and sanctions against the Pats.

 

[Betterthanmost]

According to you, Vrabel and this highly experienced staff doesn't do any game planning, doesn't do any self-assessment and is incompetent in regards to understanding the teams own strengths and weaknesses. Despite the fact we've seen them make 2nd half adjustments in pretty much every game this year. You don't flip a team around the way he did by not doing those things.

You're completely ignoring that those 3 and outs were on players failing to execute the plays properly. Not on coaching.

Spillane saying that he was starting was a nothing burger. I can guarantee you that Seattle was prepping for him to be on the field as the starter.

My post sounds harsh. It was based on the offense performance throughout the playoffs. Vrabs team is fantastic but there is a level they needed to be for this superbowl and they were not there for the offense. I did not imply they were incompetent.
We hardly did anything to counter Seattle’s aggression on defense. They eat and had their cake.
Vrabs needs his team keeping a tighter lip on game specific scenarios. It can only help. If you don’t understand that, nothing more for me to say on this topic. Take care.

 

[DaBruinz]

My post sounds harsh. It was based on the offense performance throughout the playoffs. Vrabs team is fantastic but there is a level they needed to be for this superbowl and they were not there for the offense. I did not imply they were incompetent.
We hardly did anything to counter Seattle’s aggression on defense. They eat and had their cake.
Vrabs needs his team keeping a tighter lip on game specific scenarios. It can only help. If you don’t understand that, nothing more for me to say on this topic. Take care.

Yes. You did imply they were incompetent. You claimed they didn't study their opponent and they didn't do any self-scouting. Those are some of the basics you have to do as a coach.

The issue regarding Spillane is you not understanding that Spillane playing or not and it's announcement was a nothing burger. YOU are the one thinking that it was some great secret that would have changed the course of the game if it wasn't announced. The REALITY is that short of Spillane being put on IR, the Seahawks were going to prep for the Pats as if he was on the field. Because that's what good teams do. So, no, it wouldn't have helped one iota to not have that announced. YOU are the one who doesn't understand that.

 

[brdmaverick]

If this is true then it's very disappointing. I recall watching some 'behind the scenes video' and the Patriots not only have coaches that review their upcoming opponents but they also have coaches scout their own team to see what patterns or tendencies other teams might pick up on.....a potential failure in this department

 

[brdmaverick]

I recall BB saying there was a Ravens offensive lineman that would unintentionally tip them off as to whether it was a run or pass.

He said they were all disappointed when he was inactive for one of the games.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

No. There was no great strategic advantage favoring Seattle via a "tell" from film study. The Seahawks won on superior player talent and physicality. The Patriots were overpowered where most vulnerable.

Yes it is true that the left OG & OT were overpowered... We all could see that.

When I started this thread, I was passing along what on of Seattle's DBs actually had to say....

According to Seahawks cornerback Devon Witherspoon, that did not happen by accident. In fact, he claimed after the game that his team’s film study revealed some clear tendencies his unit was keying in on.

“I knew what was going on,” Witherspoon told SiriusXM NFL Radio. “We had a good tell on what they like to do and how they like to play and how they were going to attack us. Coach put us in the best position to win. That’s our coach right there, that’s why we always stand beside him and always have his back.”

The tell that Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald and his staff uncovered could be found along the offensive line.

“We had a tell on their guards and their tackles, how they like to set, they’re going to overset on certain rushes, they’re going to fall for certain moves any time a group of guys get after them,” Witherspoon added. “I think we did that.”

I admit that I was not in attendance when the Seahawk Coaches and Players were reviewing Patriots game film footage.

But I did write about my personal experience (many years ago) with this topic :

I was NOT a very good high school FB player

I do remember preparing for one specific game, our coaches spotted a very specific "tell" on film.

Our opponent's guards would basically telegraph the play by taking a baby step a few inches backwards before getting set.

Never the less, their linemen were huge and they mauled us 41-7.

The year before all of this happened, we had a much better team and upset them for the first time in almost 20 years.

So these huge linemen were playing angry, even if we knew their plays.

So Yes execution IS important... I did not say that it was not...

 

[Toofy]

I still feel we missed Chism.

He should have been there. They were playing lot of zone and we need a real solid slot.

With teams pressing on diggs, pop couldn't sit and eat in the zones. Chism would have kept the chains moving.

Maye and Chism will need to work together more. B4 u all crucify me by saying Chism is no great shakes, I feel he has that x factor when the going gets tough . He could have played instead of d ernest johnson.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes it is true that the left OG & OT were overpowered... We all could see that.

When I started this thread, I was passing along what on of Seattle's DBs actually had to say....

I admit that I was not in attendance when the Seahawk Coaches and Players were reviewing Patriots game film footage.

But I did write about my personal experience (many years ago) with this topic :


So Yes execution IS important... I did not say that it was not...

I'm afraid you might be confusing what's referred to as a pre-snap "tell" with situational tendencies. They're two different things.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I'm afraid you might be confusing what's referred to as a pre-snap "tell" with situational tendencies. They're two different things.

Coach Vrabel's answer is vague:

How Mike Vrabel responded to Seahawks claiming Patriots had pass-protection ‘tell’

 

[n1997y]

Yet, everyone seems to be pointing the finger at Coaches and not player execution.

Apparently you subscribe to Mayo’s philosophy of not being able yo help once players cross the white lines.

Many of us disagree and believe coaches can see and correct technique flaws, subtle tells, errors in reads, etc.

I mean, the TD to Barner was the exact play that had beaten the Pats Defense for a TD earlier in the year. That was player execution.

Or players not being coached to look for it.

It takes both.

I mean, Malcolm Butler executed perfectly, precisely because he had been coached to expect that play and practiced what to do about it.

Maye's throws being off aren't on coaching. It's on the player.

Could be coaching, if his mechanics were messed up and not corrected.

I haven’t looked, don’t know if you have but without that we can’t know.

It could also be that he was spooked or distracted by the D and poor performance by his OL, and some of that has to be on coaching.

Bradbury failing to pick up stunts is on him. It's been an issue he's had all year.

It wasn’t just Bradbury it was all the OL, and it wasn’t just stunts it was missing blitzes, blocking the wrong defender, etc. Moses missed a couple of blitzes, for example.

And if it’s an issue he’s had all year why wasn’t he coached to fix it?

Wilson regressed in the post-season. Maybe he was playing tentative because of the concussion he'd suffered. Maybe it was something else.. But he reverted back to playing the way he had in the 1st quarter of the season.

Campbell, we know now, was playing with an injured knee.

And coaches did not fix those errors or play replacements!

Milt Williams failing to wrap up numerous tackles is on him. Not coaching.
There were several times that Pats players over-ran plays, taking themselves out of position.

But many seems to be harping on the Coaches because of some BS that Witherspoon claimed.

What is hilarious about the video above is that he's claiming to know where Wilson's eyes were looking based on Wilson's helmet. Despite numerous time, the view was from behind and you couldn't really tell where his helmet was pointing. Yet, people are eating it up..

I don’t buy the claim that Seattle found some magic tells.

That’s irrelevant as far as coaches bearing responsibility as much as players.

 

[neuronet]

Good players can't overcome bad coaching. --Bill Belichick