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Schefter: Cassel (and Vrabel) to Chiefs for 2009 2nd-rounder [merged]

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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

So, ummm... was Denver the mystery team?

Broncos | Cutler upset
Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:07:52 -0800

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports Denver Broncos QB Jay Cutler is a bit upset that the Broncos were fielding calls - from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions - about trading for him. The Broncos say they did not initiate the calls, they simply received them.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

maybe we can sign bodden now

Wouldn't be surprised if that was a deal just waiting on this one - announced tomorrow maybe?
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

So, ummm... was Denver the mystery team?

Cutler's a little Nancy boy, and McDaniels is going to have to force him to butch up a bit.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

mgcolby, i can't enlighten anybody who won't stray from their first impressions.

would you rather wait it out and attempt to get more value (if even possible) while having our hands tied with all free agents, or would you rather clear the cap and get all the value you can as soon as possible?

It looks like Vrabel was an add-in to the deal so that we could clear more space, one could assume that he likely would have been a cap casualty if he hadn't been traded.

I think you just had your expectations too high. Cassel had a really good year, but just because a team made a mistake a few years ago for overpaying for Schaub, it does not effect the CURRENT market.

We got what we could ASAP and are now in an amazing position to solidify our defense through the draft and free agency. I thought we might get more, but considering THIS DRAFT CLASS, I can't think of many picks with more value than the one we got.

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but their next steps will dictate whether they made the right move or not. If they have immediate plans for the money and needed to move him quickly to accomodate so be it. But if they don't have any significant signings right away or they simply just extend Wilfork and Warren with that money then they got took. Because they could have held on to him and still made this deal or a better one down the road.

I feel dirty even questioning BB, but its hard not to on this one.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Cassel and Vrabes for #34? More would have been great, but, hey...it is what it is.


I'm relieved that the suspense is finally over! Looking forward to the draft and an awesome 2009 season. Oh, and MFTFB IS BACK, BABY! :woohoo: :eat1:
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but their next steps will dictate whether they made the right move or not. If they have immediate plans for the money and needed to move him quickly to accomodate so be it. But if they don't have any significant signings right away or they simply just extend Wilfork and Warren with that money then they got took. Because they could have held on to him and still made this deal or a better one down the road.

I feel dirty even questioning BB, but its hard not to on this one.
Why not? Even BB is not perfect and this deal leaves me scratching my head.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but their next steps will dictate whether they made the right move or not. If they have immediate plans for the money and needed to move him quickly to accomodate so be it. But if they don't have any significant signings right away or they simply just extend Wilfork and Warren with that money then they got took. Because they could have held on to him and still made this deal or a better one down the road.

I feel dirty even questioning BB, but its hard not to on this one.

Fair enough. I mean if we end up signing Troy Brown for $10 million, I'll be pissed, but I am sure we will use this money to solidify the defense, and to me, it seems there is plenty of talent available to us.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

The fact is the Pats were in danger of completely missing out on free agency if they didn't trade Cassel immediately. That's called negotiating from a position of weakness. In a certain respect they were lucky Pioli bailed them out.

They picked up a new RB and TE and now have a shot at landing a CB like Bodden or another S or LB in the next few weeks--basically they find free agents for whatever positions they feel are weak in the draft.

Anyway, a few weeks ago they were looking at getting a late 3rd rd comp pick (next year) for Cassel. A 2nd rounder looks good by comparison.

The only part that's confusing is Vrabel. Was he basically a salary cap casualty like many here suggest? Did BB think he didn't have anything left in the tank? I would love to know the answer to that one.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

WEEI reports that the Lions and the Bucs made last minute offers for Matt Cassel, but couldn't come to terms.

Does that mean they couldn't come to terms with the Pats.... or Cassel?

Either it was Cassel and we we're offered more from those 2 teams...

Or it was them offering a third or worse (lions) or a worse second rounder from TB.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Are you suggesting that some other team offered more and Belichick refused the deal? The patriots have never put their season in jeapordy and put $14.6M of cap money on hold until the draft. That indeed would have been "notorious".

1) Some here wanted NOT to bother franchising Cassel at all.

2) Others thought (here and on Reiss's blog) the most important goal of free agency was to maximize the value received for Cassel. Many were posted here, and in the media, that Cassel was worth two firsts; and if not, surely a first and a first or second next year. They posted the dozen teams that were certainly interested. When someone posted how few might be interested, many here thought that they were idiots. Well they were right.

3) Some of us were OK with franchising as long as it did not restrict us in free agency. This free agency period is critical to this year and next, since we may or may not be able to sign free agents next year. And even if we can, Kraft would rather sign free agents now than in possible uncapped market. Many here disagree with this position, preferring Kraft to overspend in 2010 and hurt his business.
================

In the end, Position Three was Belichick's position. I'm sure that he had his folks called every team in the league and had Cassel's agent do so also. But, as Shecter said early in the game, trading Cassel with a $14.6M contract would require a special team, one that would be willing to pay reasonable compensation to the patriots and one who could meet Cassel's needs. Finally such a team would need to act early, and get their quarterback up to speed. Pioli was willing to take a chance with the #34 and a contract with Cassel where no one else offering a #33 or a first would do so (or are you suggesting that Belichick refused a higher offer?).

Summarized perfectly.

In situations involving trades and free agency, the "market" is what happens at that moment in time. Obviously there wasn't as large a market for Cassel as we all thought, myself included because if there was the Pats would have taken the best deal out there. They took KC's deal because it was the best deal out there. There are a lot of things in play here, not every team needs a starting QB and the ones that did weren't willing to pay $14 mil + draft picks to get one. The Pats will probably be criticized by most for this deal, but they came out of it with a 1st Rd quality pick at #34 for a player most on this board wanted to waive after last preseason. I think they included Vrabel in the deal because they were most likely going to release him.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

cassel is going to wind up a pro bowl guy with KC.

i dont know. perhaps losing pioli is a bigger deal than i thought. he would never, ever have done this deal if he were representing the pats. whatever belichick's motivation for this, it wasn't as good for the team than if we had made a run at getting detroit's 1.

i mean it's a good pick, but cassel is the real thing. he's going to light it up in KC. what do we do with that 2nd? I guess try to get julius peppers, probably, huh? we can extend wilfork or mankins and re-sign some of the guys who look to be walking and still have the money to get peppers here. i hope that happens.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but their next steps will dictate whether they made the right move or not. If they have immediate plans for the money and needed to move him quickly to accomodate so be it. But if they don't have any significant signings right away or they simply just extend Wilfork and Warren with that money then they got took. Because they could have held on to him and still made this deal or a better one down the road.

I feel dirty even questioning BB, but its hard not to on this one.

I have to agree 100% with this assessment. I mean we got the same value for Dieon Branch. This is a top quarterback free agent and we got hosed in this deal. I'm very, very disappointed in this move. And if you are going to give him away, at least give him away to an NFC team where he can haunt you less. This sucks.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but their next steps will dictate whether they made the right move or not.

I think this is right, although on balance I am more confident that this will make sense in time than I am discouraged that it does not. The critical element here was time: we should not think of this as the trade of Cassel, but as of an expensive one-year guaranteed contract for Cassel's services. The value undoubtedly would have been greater if Cassel had worked out a longer term deal with a trading partner, but evidently there was not enough time for this. KC was probably the highest bidder for the package on offer. I too wish this were different -- especially the Vrabel part, which I can't understand -- but they must have other moves in mind immediately. In not, then the punditocracy will say that BB has gone soft.

Let's see how this plays out. Tony Gonzalez, anyone?
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

cassel is going to wind up a pro bowl guy with KC.

i dont know. perhaps losing pioli is a bigger deal than i thought. he would never, ever have done this deal if he were representing the pats. whatever belichick's motivation for this, it wasn't as good for the team than if we had made a run at getting detroit's 1.

i mean it's a good pick, but cassel is the real thing. he's going to light it up in KC. what do we do with that 2nd? I guess try to get julius peppers, probably, huh? we can extend wilfork or mankins and re-sign some of the guys who look to be walking and still have the money to get peppers here. i hope that happens.

You are vastly overrating Cassel, or I am vastly underrating him. To each his own, I guess... but if you compare Matt's stats with the QBs by committee's stats in KC, there isn't the monumental difference you may expect. When you add in the fact that Matt had the best offense in pro football history surrounding him, it makes his projection more difficult.

I think he will be a slightly above-average starting QB in this league, especially with a team like the Chiefs. He improved exponentially, but he still has a lot to learn.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

i'm not happy...vrabel is not a throw in player
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

and holy **** suddenly the AFC west is patriots land. that is insane. mcdaniels facing cassel twice a year.

oh boy we are gonna be seeing these guys in the playoffs a few times over the next few years, bet on that. brady vs. cassel? oh man that would be incredible.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

They could have gotten more. They did Pioli a solid. I'm fine with it, but not everyone will be.

I think they could have waited it out and after the dust settled, a team like TB or SF might have stepped up their offer, but frankly NE did not have the luxury of time with Cassel's $14.6MM holding their cap hostage.

The opportunity cost of not being able to sign the Leigh Bodden's of the world trumped holding out for slightly more value in a Cassel trade. I believe this was the smart play.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

You have to think of this deal in another context, not only did we get the 34th pick but we did in essence get some control on where he went, I dont think the Pats front office had expectations as high as us or some of the media but how would we feel if Cassel was starting for the Jets or Dolphins, at least he's not in our division and we can address our weaknesses while the players are still available.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Surely Cassel has some say in this as well? He signs his tender and there his money, he doesnt have to go anywhere

So maybe he doesnt want the Lions or the Bucs and likes KC with a shotgun offense and Bowe, Gonzalez etc, plus of course Pioli.

He did a great job for us last year and im pleased he's got a shot at an up and coming team
 
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