Running game/short yardage futility

[pazrul72]

Agreed. No idea why McDaniels chose NOT to do any of that and, instead, chose to numerous "A" gap runs.. The "A" gaps are the worst blocked runs this team has..

I think I've seen this team run a total of 2-3 Jet Sweeps. I can't remember the last time they ran a screen play. He seemed extremely adverse to running pitches and tosses wide despite that being the area where Henderson would excel.

then there is the back shoulder fade.. With the Triple "H" of Henry, Hollins and Hooper, I would think that would be an End Zone Staple.

Right side of the line is the answer for why they aren't running more sweeps and outside zone type plays. Neither Owenu or Moses have the explosion or foot speed to run those plays effectively. I think this offseaon is going to answer a major question, what kind of run team do they want to be going forward? If they get an actual FB, a bellcow back, and a mauler Guard they are going back to a power running team that's wants to get 4.5 ypc. If they draft a few more athletes like Wilson and Campbell then Henderson will be the lead back and we are ok with 2 yards 2 yards 3 yards 70 yard TD. Will be very interesting to see how they attack this personal problem but nothing is changing this year.

 

[Toofy]

Bears Oline is deadly. D'andre swift is just piling on... Hope next season we can do similar power runs

 

[Huckleberry1]

The Pats run blocking has been awful this season. Need upgrades at C and G.

Yep. Interior OL will defijitely be aa focus in free agency snd the draft. Fortunately it's one area where you don't need a high draft pick, and can had in free agency, unlike QB, LT, and Edge, which gets wiped out by tags, team's re-signing all the good ones, and runs on the first days of the draft. I think Vrabel wants to build a dominant offensive line, and they will address it immediately in free agency, and on the first 2 days of the draft. Next season Onwenu will likely be gone, and Bradbury will be depth. Right tackle could also be addtessed, as the top tackles in this draft are all a at right tackles, and there won't a run on them in the first 20 picks.

 

[Dec54]

Yep. Interior OL will defijitely be aa focus in free agency snd the draft. Fortunately it's one area where you don't need a high draft pick, and can had in free agency, unlike QB, LT, and Edge, which gets wiped out by tags, team's re-signing all the good ones, and runs on the first days of the draft. I think Vrabel wants to build a dominant offensive line, and they will address it immediately in free agency, and on the first 2 days of the draft. Next season Onwenu will likely be gone, and Bradbury will be depth. Right tackle could also be addtessed, as the top tackles in this draft are all a at right tackles, and there won't a run on them in the first 20 picks.

O line certainly need some strengthening. Not sure what LB's will be available in the draft, but an upgrade on what we have would also be good in my opinion.

 

[DaBruinz]

Right side of the line is the answer for why they aren't running more sweeps and outside zone type plays. Neither Owenu or Moses have the explosion or foot speed to run those plays effectively. I think this offseaon is going to answer a major question, what kind of run team do they want to be going forward? If they get an actual FB, a bellcow back, and a mauler Guard they are going back to a power running team that's wants to get 4.5 ypc. If they draft a few more athletes like Wilson and Campbell then Henderson will be the lead back and we are ok with 2 yards 2 yards 3 yards 70 yard TD. Will be very interesting to see how they attack this personal problem but nothing is changing this year.

There is a huge problem with your claim about Moses & Onwenu. The Pats are most effective running through the C/D Gaps on both sides of the line. (That's outside the Tackle and outside the TE). The Pats actually get the most yardage running outside to the Left, but outside to the right is effective as well.

People don't want to hear it, but Wilson has barely been better than what the Pats has last year at LG. He may have turned a corner with his pass blocked before he got injured, but we'll have to wait and see how he does when he get's back.

What is a "Bellcow" RB? You mean a short-yardage specialist like Bettis or Blount?

Want to get the biggest improvement in the running game? Replace Bradybury. The guy who was supposedly a better Run blocker than pass blocker. He's the biggest issue with them not being able to run the ball through the "A" gaps.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yep. Interior OL will defijitely be aa focus in free agency snd the draft. Fortunately it's one area where you don't need a high draft pick, and can had in free agency, unlike QB, LT, and Edge, which gets wiped out by tags, team's re-signing all the good ones, and runs on the first days of the draft. I think Vrabel wants to build a dominant offensive line, and they will address it immediately in free agency, and on the first 2 days of the draft. Next season Onwenu will likely be gone, and Bradbury will be depth. Right tackle could also be addtessed, as the top tackles in this draft are all a at right tackles, and there won't a run on them in the first 20 picks.

It remains to be seen whether Bryant is the future are RT or is just the swing tackle of the future. There is no guarantee that Onwenu will be gone. It's far more likely that Bradbury will be gone.

My hope is that they will address the O-line immediately. that someone like McGovern, Edwards, Lindebaum are signed in the "Cheating" period of free agency. While there are guards and centers available, it's questionable as to how many are actual upgrades over what we have currently.

 

[Ring 6]

So, the OC should simply keep calling runs up the middle and when that doesn't work the answer is that the talent isn't good enough to execute his plays? Really?

To me, this is utter nonsense.

You have to run the ball up the middle to run an effective offense. Defenses devote a ton of resources to stopping inside runs. If you abandon that you make it harder to do everything else.
It has long been documented that run attempts is a much stronger correlation to play action and overall offensive success than run success.
The marginal difference in non-outlier run offenses is largely the number of long runs, not the success rate or stuffed rate. 4.3 vs 3.8 is usually a function of 20+ runs.
An offense that uses its run game to set up a top tier passing game doesn’t need this 20+ to be effective.

 

[Ring 6]

There is a huge problem with your claim about Moses & Onwenu. The Pats are most effective running through the C/D Gaps on both sides of the line. (That's outside the Tackle and outside the TE). The Pats actually get the most yardage running outside to the Left, but outside to the right is effective as well.

People don't want to hear it, but Wilson has barely been better than what the Pats has last year at LG. He may have turned a corner with his pass blocked before he got injured, but we'll have to wait and see how he does when he get's back.

What is a "Bellcow" RB? You mean a short-yardage specialist like Bettis or Blount?

Want to get the biggest improvement in the running game? Replace Bradybury. The guy who was supposedly a better Run blocker than pass blocker. He's the biggest issue with them not being able to run the ball through the "A" gaps.

Almost every team is “more effective” running to the C and D gaps than the A and B. However the runs in the A and B gap are part of why the outside runs end up more effective. If you abandon the A and B you diminish the success outside.
NFL teams average 1.8 ypc inside the 10 yard line. Most of those are inside, because you don’t want risk a big loss on an east/west run against a an 11 man box that often is shooting gaps.
That alone reduces the “effectiveness” of over A and B gap numbers.

 

[pazrul72]

There is a huge problem with your claim about Moses & Onwenu. The Pats are most effective running through the C/D Gaps on both sides of the line. (That's outside the Tackle and outside the TE). The Pats actually get the most yardage running outside to the Left, but outside to the right is effective as well.

People don't want to hear it, but Wilson has barely been better than what the Pats has last year at LG. He may have turned a corner with his pass blocked before he got injured, but we'll have to wait and see how he does when he get's back.

What is a "Bellcow" RB? You mean a short-yardage specialist like Bettis or Blount?

Want to get the biggest improvement in the running game? Replace Bradybury. The guy who was supposedly a better Run blocker than pass blocker. He's the biggest issue with them not being able to run the ball through the "A" gaps.

Outside runs, sweeps and zone run blocking, require big guys that can move well and block in space. Even running them to the left means your RG has to pull and not just bull rush the guy head up on them 5 yards backwards. Owenu in particular used to be decent at it but idk what happened, undisclosed injury? Getting older? Less attention to footwork? But he is now awful at pulling and blocking in space.

I agree with you the surprising worst offender for a guy billed as a plus run blocker is Bradberry. The entire interior gets no push and the whole right side is too immobile to run outside effectively enough. They hit big plays which makes the stats look better mostly due to Henderson’s speed. It’s not consistent and can’t be counted on in the playoffs which is a problem that needs to be fixed thru better personal. As I said how they choose to replace it will be interesting. You either get better athletes for a more consistent big play, or you get better run blockers for the middle run threat to be effective. Either option can work.

A bell cow to me is a 5’10 to 6’ 220+ lb guy that can take 20 carries a game and get you 70-100 yards. He doesn’t necessarily have blazing speed or moves because that’s not his job. He’s the guy that can keep the offense in manageable down and distance. BJGE was a low budget one that I hope we could do better then but no fumbles consistent forward moving progress is the goal. Rham used to be a decent one but the fumbles and recent rushing issues make me question him as RB1. I would hope a 3rd or 4th round rookie that doesn’t have elite measurables but gets the job done can take it from him next year. Then Rham would be a perfect back up to take the other 5-15 snaps a game when they need a breather.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It remains to be seen whether Bryant is the future are RT or is just the swing tackle of the future. There is no guarantee that Onwenu will be gone. It's far more likely that Bradbury will be gone.

My hope is that they will address the O-line immediately. that someone like McGovern, Edwards, Lindebaum are signed in the "Cheating" period of free agency. While there are guards and centers available, it's questionable as to how many are actual upgrades over what we have currently.

I agree with much of that. I think Onwenu will be gone because he's not worth his contract, and they have gotten rid of guys like Duggar who were in the same boat. I think they can get a really good guard on Day 2 of the draft, and would like to see them go center in free agency, as a priority,

 

[p8ryts]

Somebody posted a link this week to Burton-Ernie & in one segment they talked short-yardage runs.

Ernie’s point: the OL first have to get hip-on-hip; tighter than usual. If they allow a crease for a DL to slip his pad vertical thru, he will leak thru & disrupt the play.
So I’m not sure how much is this (or other similar) technique point & how much is a lack of explosiveness-power (particularly at center) call it 50-50; BUT THE PROBLEM IS IMO 100% the O-LINE. If they could do it right, it might still take 2 or even 3 tries, but Drake & rbs would punch some in.

we ain’t solving this without more OL talent; so for playoffs we just have to hope Josh schemes some good alternatives.

Maye does need to improve his sneak technique and maybe have more freedom to change plays although I have no idea if that is an issue.

 

[p8ryts]

Outside runs, sweeps and zone run blocking, require big guys that can move well and block in space. Even running them to the left means your RG has to pull and not just bull rush the guy head up on them 5 yards backwards. Owenu in particular used to be decent at it but idk what happened, undisclosed injury? Getting older? Less attention to footwork? But he is now awful at pulling and blocking in space.

I agree with you the surprising worst offender for a guy billed as a plus run blocker is Bradberry. The entire interior gets no push and the whole right side is too immobile to run outside effectively enough. They hit big plays which makes the stats look better mostly due to Henderson’s speed. It’s not consistent and can’t be counted on in the playoffs which is a problem that needs to be fixed thru better personal. As I said how they choose to replace it will be interesting. You either get better athletes for a more consistent big play, or you get better run blockers for the middle run threat to be effective. Either option can work.

A bell cow to me is a 5’10 to 6’ 220+ lb guy that can take 20 carries a game and get you 70-100 yards. He doesn’t necessarily have blazing speed or moves because that’s not his job. He’s the guy that can keep the offense in manageable down and distance. BJGE was a low budget one that I hope we could do better then but no fumbles consistent forward moving progress is the goal. Rham used to be a decent one but the fumbles and recent rushing issues make me question him as RB1. I would hope a 3rd or 4th round rookie that doesn’t have elite measurables but gets the job done can take it from him next year. Then Rham would be a perfect back up to take the other 5-15 snaps a game when they need a breather.

Emmitt Smith size is classic for me.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I wouldn’t be upset if the Pats first two picks in 2026 were OL…Guards in particular . Needs a serious upgrade.

 

[TommyD4207]

I wouldn’t be upset if the Pats first two picks in 2026 were OL…Guards in particular . Needs a serious upgrade.

I like this if you think the next right tackle is on the roster.

 

[Vindicate]

Maye does need to improve his sneak technique and maybe have more freedom to change plays although I have no idea if that is an issue.

The sneak is hard. Ontop of the many other accolades Brady has, I'd argue he is hands-down the best at the QB sneak in history. Truly distorted my perception of how difficult it is.

 

[DaBruinz]

Patriots have signed Craig Reynolds - RB - Formerly of the Lions to their PS.. Reynolds has been going kick returns. Reynolds seems to be decent as a pass catcher, but he's mediocre running the ball from scrimmage.

Doubt well see him this week, but it's an interesting addition who has play-off experience with the Lions. The Coaching staff knows him well.

 

[The Brandon Five]

they have 13 turnovers on downs this season to 5 first downs on fourth down.

EDIT: I posted this backward.s. It's 13 first downs.


2nd only to KC (80.8%) in 4th down conversion percentage at 76.5%.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Are there OL issues? Sure. Do we lack a power running back? Yes- but few power backs do well when they get hit behind the line of scrimmage.

Few people had the team winning 10 games this year. A big reason was that they were very likely to have a below average line. They drafted line in the first and third rounds. They signed Morgan Moses who has been a great leader and an improvenent.

Why is anyone surprised they have OLine issues some games? Especially if they lose a starter in the first quarter. Do they seem radically more talented than any Dline they face? It’s unlikely they’ll bell a top 10 OL next year.

What isn’t surprising is that they struggle. What is surprising is that a team that has won 8 games over the past 2 previous years, can find a way to win a game where they are down 10-0 on the road, toss a pick six, and flail on the OLine and 3 starters miss time they eventually lose 2.

It’s Thanksgiving. Gratitude is good.