Rod Marinelli speaks highly of Bryant

[cstjohn17]

Marinelli may have thought highly of Bryant but much more relavant was, no doubt, the opinion of Capers, who drafted him. Another Capers guy added was Sanders, IIRC. The change in this secondary is going to be as big as the change in the WR stable last yr., IMO.

Good catch on the Capers connection but lets slow things down. Last year Randy Moss caught 23 TDs and Welker had 100+ catches. This year the secondary has added some career JAGs and lost a young pro-bowler and you think the secondary's production will match the 07 WR's? Wow, give me some of that homer juice! (and some damn warm weather too please)

 

[jczxohn1]

Good catch on the Capers connection but lets slow things down. Last year Randy Moss caught 23 TDs and Welker had 100+ catches. This year the secondary has added some career JAGs and lost a young pro-bowler and you think the secondary's production will match the 07 WR's? Wow, give me some of that homer juice! (and some damn warm weather too please)

Getting these two guys with Capers pedigree's even if they are JAGs, talent-wise, can only help in changing the read-and-react philosophy handed down from RAC and Mangini. While statistically they may not match the success of the 07 WR's, there will be no doubt that this secondary is a different animal than our opponents faced the last couple of years. There will be penetration of opponents' O-lines, not merely collapsed pockets. The goal will be to force a pass in less than 3 sec. Mistakes will be made, but this defense will once again be dynamic and won't be beaten in the same way.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Enough with the Belichick is god stuff and he can do NO wrong in evaluating a player BEFORE he comes here- Thats pure BS

Belichick while still the NFL's best coach,is far from perfect when signing players from other teams such as....

MONTY BEISEL
DUANE STARKS
CHAD BROWN

...and more if you need some


While BB has hit more than missed, its very possible any guy he got to sign with the team has as good a chance to suck as they are to being a good fit.

Lets not put Jason Webster or Fernando Bryant as a HOF corner just yet

 

[jczxohn1]

Enough with the Belichick is god stuff and he can do NO wrong in evaluating a player BEFORE he comes here- Thats pure BS

Belichick while still the NFL's best coach,is far from perfect when signing players from other teams such as....

MONTY BEISEL
DUANE STARKS
CHAD BROWN

...and more if you need some


While BB has hit more than missed, its very possible any guy he got to sign with the team has as good a chance to suck as they are to being a good fit.

Lets not put Jason Webster or Fernando Bryant as a HOF corner just yet

Biesel was signed within 3 wks of Tedy's stroke. Best LB available before the draft. No LB's drafted that stuck through TC. Brown became available after the draft and was signed as an
OLB, pressed into ILB service when TJ retired. No excuse for Starks , altho I think he was misrepresented by Rosenhaus as healthy (he wasn't cheap, $5 mil IIRC) when he had multiple problems. Those 3 can be labelled under "life happens". What else you got?

 

[RayClay]

What has Rod Marinelli ever accomplished in his career in the NFL to get excited about his comments regarding a player?

Now if Andy Reid,Tony Dungy,Bill Parcells,Jon Gruden or Mike Shanahan had said this I would be more impressed,They are successful and those types of guys are worth listening to

Marinelli? - pffftttt

Lot of college jobs, but work on this defense probably stands out.

Sounds like he might know a little about defense.

Marinelli went to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1996 and was the defensive line coach for six seasons under head coach Tony Dungy. The latter four seasons he also served as assistant head coach. He was known for his strict disciplinary style and his commitment to getting the most out of his players. There he worked to develop lineman such as Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice into Pro Bowl caliber players. During Marinelli's tenure in Tampa Bay, the Buccaneers earned more sacks than any other franchise.

 

[BPF]

Enough with the Belichick is god stuff and he can do NO wrong in evaluating a player BEFORE he comes here- Thats pure BS

Belichick while still the NFL's best coach,is far from perfect when signing players from other teams such as....

MONTY BEISEL
DUANE STARKS
CHAD BROWN

...and more if you need some


While BB has hit more than missed, its very possible any guy he got to sign with the team has as good a chance to suck as they are to being a good fit.

Lets not put Jason Webster or Fernando Bryant as a HOF corner just yet

Notice none of the mentioned are big $$ players. You are allowed to miss on low $$ signings. Bryant will be a great addition and the low $$ make him even more valuable.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?p=841096#post841096

 

[PATRIOT64]

Notice none of the mentioned are big $$ players. You are allowed to miss on low $$ signings. Bryant will be a great addition and the low $$ make him even more valuable.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?p=841096#post841096

Thats true about big $$$ not being used on those guys but nevertheless they were busts

I think most of us are expecting Adalius Thomas to show why he was such a highly ranked FA last year and if he does not improve off last years stats some may wonder if he was just a system player like so many guys were in Baltimore - His first year was good but I expect more this year and he was paid decent $$$

 

[Deus Irae]

1. MacPherson's success in college means that he had an eye for talent as a whole. But I used the college thing as a point of reference. The fact that he took a 1 win team to a 6 win team is impressive. It's not astronomical, but it is impressive. I still am not sure how this reference corralates to a coach's eye for talent but, hey, you added it in there, not me.

McPherson's success in college means that he could recruit good college athletes and coach them for the college game. It doesn't mean that he knew NFL talent. As for how it correlates to a coach's eye for talent, you are the one who made the argument that coach = talent evalution. Personally, I've seen too many sports teams to think there is any sort of a causal connection. You're the one who made that silly "until you're an NFL coach" comment.

2. Mike Williams? That is the best you've got? Mike Williams looked AWESOME coming out of college and had every message board on the internet that relates to football drooling from the mouth over his physical abilities. It is nearly impossible to forsee a bust with Mike Williams' attributes. Plus, we're talking about NFL HEAD COACHES here. Not GMs. Start a separate thread about GMs and I'll back you up on the fact that Millen has had a horrible tenure as GM.

What do you mean "best you've got"? I used one very recent example. I could have used several players. However, Williams is a good example because so many people were wary of his ability to translate his game to the pros. As for the head coach/GM thing, perhaps one day you'll understand why they are two different jobs and why they are usually filled by two different people.

3. Did you hear about Tom Brady before he left college? How about Marques Colston? Believe it or not, most people had no idea who Tom Brady was. There might have been enough film on him, but he had not starred in enough games as a starter for coaches to sing his praises hence the fall to the sixth round. This isn't that hard to understand.

Not enough games as a starter? Hmmm..

Wikipedia:

Brady battled for the number one quarterback position with Drew Henson and ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts (350) and completions in a season (214).[10] Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns. He is ranked third in the University of Michigan history with 442 completions from 710 attempts.

Wikipedia's numbers differ only slightly from the numbers Michigan puts out:

http://stats.ath.umich.edu/football/cmaster.php

And Conservapedia:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Tom_Brady

Now, if you'd like to argue that 2 seasons, and 25 games, as a starter isn't enough, you go for that. Me, I realize that the kid started at Michigan for two seasons and was the team MVP in his final year. It's not as if he had nobody to sing his praises

4. Even if you guys don't trust the opinion of Marinelli, I trust in Belichick and if he thinks Bryant is a good CB, then that's all I need to here. Let me know when you guys have the same success as Belichick. Or if you ever become a head coach of an NFL team. Then I might just take your opinions seriously.

It's not about who I trust. It's about your comment to PATRIOTSFANINPA. It was inane. I'm quite content to have Belioli making the personnel decisions for my favorite team. They've shown a tendency to be better than most at the job. However, as players like Starks, Bethel, Hayes, Beisel and others show, even Belioli are not above making mistakes.

As for you taking my opinions seriously.... After your justifications for your posts here, your view of my opinions isn't something I'm likely to lose sleep over.

 

[Gon_Trevil]

Am I the only one who noticed Rod Marinelli sounded horribly ******ed? His sentences weren't really far from just saying "He more better more. Consumate Pro. Tackle and physical. You really like. Tackle and physical. You like physical. Boy he's a pro. You like. You really like."

 

[Kontradiction]

So I take it...

1. You knew about Tom Brady before he entered the draft and were screaming at the television for three days calling teams "******ed" for skipping on the single greatest QB ever to enter the draft and fall to the sixth round? Yeah right.

2. You've seen plenty of game and practice tape on Fernando Bryant? Enough to think he's going to be a bust with the Pats. Enough to say that Marinelli doesn't know what he is talking about?

Like it or not, you're inferring you can do a better job of player scouting than Marinelli or Belichick. Of course not every coach is going to be perfect at picking players and inserting them into their teams' system. I didn't say that they were, but you most certainly did (if only to try to make a counterpoint). Coaches hit and miss sometimes. Have you ever hit and missed with a job? Women? Friends? Or are you perfect on all three fronts?

Brady may have records at Michigan, but Danny Wuerffel has records at Florida. How did his career pan out? Ryan Leaf lit up the college scene at Washington, how did his career turn out? This may sound like it's supporting your argument which, in a way it is. But what I'm saying is that if you expect coaches and talent evaluators to always hit and never miss then you're the one that is delusional. A lot of college atheletes (esp. QBs) look awesome in college then fizzle out in the pros. There is no sure fire way to predetermine a bust. But the amount of hits v.s. misses with MOST COACHES in squarely in favor of hits.

The point is, even though they aren't perfect, they are a lot closer to the game than we are. And, to be honest, I hear a lot of people asking, "I wonder what Belichick and Marinelli think about Fernando Bryant". What I DON'T hear is people asking "I wonder what PATRIOTSFANINPA and Deus Irae think about Fernando Bryant". I think I'll take the opinion of Marinelli over the opinion of someone that posts on a Patriots forum. But I guess I'm crazy for doing so...

 

[Deus Irae]

So I take it...

1. You knew about Tom Brady before he entered the draft and were screaming at the television for three days calling teams "******ed" for skipping on the single greatest QB ever to enter the draft and fall to the sixth round? Yeah right.

2. You've seen plenty of game and practice tape on Fernando Bryant? Enough to think he's going to be a bust with the Pats. Enough to say that Marinelli doesn't know what he is talking about?

Like it or not, you're inferring you can do a better job of player scouting than Marinelli or Belichick. Of course not every coach is going to be perfect at picking players and inserting them into their teams' system. I didn't say that they were, but you most certainly did (if only to try to make a counterpoint). Coaches hit and miss sometimes. Have you ever hit and missed with a job? Women? Friends? Or are you perfect on all three fronts?

1.) I didn't infer anything of the kind. Nobody is perfect, and I pointed that out.

2.) Where I felt Brady should have gone is irrelevant. What is relevant is that EVERY SINGLE NFL TEAM had 5+ rounds to draft him and passed on him before New England finally called his name.

Brady may have records at Michigan, but Danny Wuerffel has records at Florida. How did his career pan out? Ryan Leaf lit up the college scene at Washington, how did his career turn out? This may sound like it's supporting your argument which, in a way it is. But what I'm saying is that if you expect coaches and talent evaluators to always hit and never miss then you're the one that is delusional. A lot of college atheletes (esp. QBs) look awesome in college then fizzle out in the pros. There is no sure fire way to predetermine a bust. But the amount of hits v.s. misses with MOST COACHES in squarely in favor of hits.

Given that MOST COACHES aren't the ones making personnel decisions, the hits/misses argument is unprovable at best. However, the rest of this is precisely why your post attacking the other poster was so inane. AGAIN, nobody is perfect or above question, and people currently associated with the Lions certainly haven't built up any credibility in the area of player evaluations.

The point is, even though they aren't perfect, they are a lot closer to the game than we are. And, to be honest, I hear a lot of people asking, "I wonder what Belichick and Marinelli think about Fernando Bryant". What I DON'T hear is people asking "I wonder what PATRIOTSFANINPA and Deus Irae think about Fernando Bryant". I think I'll take the opinion of Marinelli over the opinion of someone that posts on a Patriots forum. But I guess I'm crazy for doing so...

Then why would you bother reading a message board and topic thread like this in the first place? The reality is that there are often front office people and/or coaches who do a terrible job evaluating talent. Jets fans could talk to you for hours about it, just to point out one easily identified group. Whether you like it or not, there are many 'regular' people who could do the job every bit as well as some of the people who've gotten paid to do it throughout NFL history.

As for Marinelli, given that the Lions didn't seem to fight very hard to keep Bryant, it's certainly sensible to question the coach's level of sincerity regarding his comments. Furthermore, Marinelli has not held a position where he chooses the personnel for his team during his time in the NFL.

P.S. Other than the typical message board people here at Patsfans.com, not a single person I've spoken to has given a damn about Marinelli's opinion of Fernando Bryant.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

1.) I didn't infer anything of the kind. Nobody is perfect, and I pointed that out.

2.) Where I felt Brady should have gone is irrelevant. What is relevant is that EVERY SINGLE NFL TEAM had 5+ rounds to draft him and passed on him before New England finally called his name.




Given that MOST COACHES aren't the ones making personnel decisions, the hits/misses argument is unprovable at best. However, the rest of this is precisely why your post attacking the other poster was so inane. AGAIN, nobody is perfect or above question, and people currently associated with the Lions certainly haven't built up any credibility in the area of player evaluations.



Then why would you bother reading a message board and topic thread like this in the first place? The reality is that there are often front office people and/or coaches who do a terrible job evaluating talent. Jets fans could talk to you for hours about it, just to point out one easily identified group. Whether you like it or not, there are many 'regular' people who could do the job every bit as well as some of the people who've gotten paid to do it throughout NFL history.

As for Marinelli, given that the Lions didn't seem to fight very hard to keep Bryant, it's certainly sensible to question the coach's level of sincerity regarding his comments. Furthermore, Marinelli has not held a position where he chooses the personnel for his team during his time in the NFL.

P.S. Other than the typical message board people here at Patsfans.com, not a single person I've spoken to has given a damn about Marinelli's opinion of Fernando Bryant.

Could not have said it better myself

When Marinelli sends Detroit to a championship - or even sniffs a championship as a head coach then maybe Kontradiction has something valid to post about,Until then Marinelli is just another HC who has a team who has done NOTHING so why should anyone care what he thinks of Bryant?

BB is desperate for any Corner who shows anything and comes at a cheaper price and Bryant fits that bill but hes no Samuel or even close,Hes just the best of bargain basement corners right now IMO

Besides Bryant has as good a chance of being cut in training camp as he has of starting at this point so any talk is irrelevant and Marinelli's opinion is a waste of discussion since he has done little to suggest his opinion of Bryant is worthy of anything.

Now if Tom Coughlin were to say a player he once coached was good ,then I respect it and would be pumped more to having that player than hearing what Marinelli says.

 

[Kontradiction]

[/b]

Could not have said it better myself

When Marinelli sends Detroit to a championship - or even sniffs a championship as a head coach then maybe Kontradiction has something valid to post about,Until then Marinelli is just another HC who has a team who has done NOTHING so why should anyone care what he thinks of Bryant?

BB is desperate for any Corner who shows anything and comes at a cheaper price and Bryant fits that bill but hes no Samuel or even close,Hes just the best of bargain basement corners right now IMO

Besides Bryant has as good a chance of being cut in training camp as he has of starting at this point so any talk is irrelevant and Marinelli's opinion is a waste of discussion since he has done little to suggest his opinion of Bryant is worthy of anything.

Now if Tom Coughlin were to say a player he once coached was good ,then I respect it and would be pumped more to having that player than hearing what Marinelli says.

You just completely contradicted yourself. It's one thing that you don't care what Marinelli thinks. We disagree on that and will do so all day long. But then you say that you care what a championship winning head coach thinks then turn around and (pretty much) bash BB's thinking in bringing in Bryant. So, uh... what gives?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You just completely contradicted yourself. It's one thing that you don't care what Marinelli thinks. We disagree on that and will do so all day long. But then you say that you care what a championship winning head coach thinks then turn around and (pretty much) bash BB's thinking in bringing in Bryant. So, uh... what gives?

Coughlin has been in the league a long time and knows his stuff and had decent success,He worked with BB long ago and I always respected him even when he was in Jacksonville.

What I am saying if you can understand, is a guy like Belichick and Coughlin are guys you can respect when they give an opinion - Where do you see that I disrespect what BB thinks of a player in this thread is beyond me,I said the opposite as if you asked 3 lousy coaches what they thought of a player and then Belichick who are you going to believe? - go back and READ it before continuing this ridiculous argument and moronic thread.

Why don't you become a Lions fan since you think Marinelli is the greatest respectable figure to give his opinion? - Matt Millen needs all the fans he can get up there.

BB is desperate for a veteran Corner who won't cost a bundle and Bryant fits the Bill (no pun intended) of any left on the market - If you think Bryant will be the 2nd coming of Samuel or a Ty Law you are likely to be in for a dissapointment.

Bryant is a ROLE PLAYER and fills a void - nothing more ,Hopefully adequately IF he makes the team

 

[Kontradiction]

Coughlin has been in the league a long time and knows his stuff and had decent success,He worked with BB long ago and I always respected him even when he was in Jacksonville.

-Excellent information. Very informative. I knew there was a reason why I read your posts.

What I am saying if you can understand, is a guy like Belichick and Coughlin are guys you can respect when they give an opinion - Where do you see that I disrespect what BB thinks of a player in this thread is beyond me

-When you say that you can't trust the opinion of Marinelli because Bryant is a second tier corner that probably won't make the team, that translates into the fact that you can't trust Belichick's decision making. Maybe the word "disrespect" was a little harsh but the point is still there.

I said the opposite as if you asked 3 lousy coaches what they thought of a player and then Belichick who are you going to believe?

-And what is your criteria for calling Marinelli a lousy coach? Oh yeah, because he works for the Lions. People forget that this guy took a perennial dumpster team to a near .500 record last season with an absent defense, running game, and an aging quarterback whose career is defined by him being a caretaker at best. Marinelli is a decent coach until you can provide FACTS (yes, facts. Something you haven't used yet in this thread but your counterpart has) that will prove me otherwise and not just speculation and opinion.

Why don't you become a Lions fan since you think Marinelli is the greatest respectable figure to give his opinion? - Matt Millen needs all the fans he can get up there.

-Ah yes. I was waiting for this response. I'll agree with you that Millen is a horrible GM. That just shows that Marinelli is a decent head coach. To do what he did last year with Millen at the helm and all the facts that I mentioned before impresses me. And no, he's not the most respectable figure to give his opinion but he is more respectable than you.

BB is desperate for a veteran Corner who won't cost a bundle and Bryant fits the Bill (no pun intended) of any left on the market - If you think Bryant will be the 2nd coming of Samuel or a Ty Law you are likely to be in for a dissapointment.

-And when did I say that Bryant is the second coming of Samuel and Ty Law? Please do me a favor and copy and paste my words where I called Bryant one of the single best cornerbacks in the league. Having trouble? That's because I never said it. I believe they call that a diversion.

Bryant is a ROLE PLAYER and fills a void - nothing more ,Hopefully adequately IF he makes the team

-WELL MARINELLI THINKS HIGHLY OF HIM AND DATS GOOD 4 ME LOLOLOLOLOLOL. BRYANT IS THE BEST CORNERBACK IN DA LEAGUE WAT A STEAL OMG WTF