Ridley

[supafly]

There are those of us who are HAPPY with the use of the RB committee you know given the many and varied dimensions Green-Ellis, Ridley and Woodhead bring to the offense.

I agree with you.

I also agree with Andy, in the sense that I question whether or not BJGE will be back next yr. It will surely be something to keep an eye on, and I for one would love him to stay.

Hanging onto the ball with such consistency is a gift that we should try to keep around. It will obviously come down to how much money Green-Ellis is looking for.

 

[satz]

Alot of stat to say that both the RB are different. They are build different and run differently. After the maroney thing and benny beating him even though he was the home run threat i think he is a very good runner.

right now we have benny and woodhead dependable guys.ridley has shown good promise but has fumbled. so if we sign benny we will have 3 RB who can count on. Usually we carry 5 due to the 16 game and rb being injured.

that still leaves 2 spots for rookie and some other lower FA to fill.

this year OL issues has directly contributed to the running game. ...

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

There are those of us who are HAPPY with the use of the RB committee you know given the many and varied dimensions Green-Ellis, Ridley and Woodhead bring to the offense.

The Patriots are 20th in the league rushing. While some of that is attributable to a heavy reliance on the pass, by any measurement the overall season rushing game is not something to be "happy" about. Satisfactory? Probably. Yet now, considering the stats about Riddley that were posted, why would we not want to see if this kid can continue to do what he has been doing on an expanded level, and even see if he can take the performance to an even higher level? The stats, the past month's performance call out for Riddley to see what he can do. Why would we be happy with the status quo 20th when much better rushing production seems eminently possible?

 

[ausbacker]

I agree with you.

I also agree with Andy, in the sense that I question whether or not BJGE will be back next yr. It will surely be something to keep an eye on, and I for one would love him to stay.

Hanging onto the ball with such consistency is a gift that we should try to keep around. It will obviously come down to how much money Green-Ellis is looking for.

I have no idea what Green-Ellis would be looking for contract wise nor the instruction of his agent. He doesn't strike me as a gold digger that said.

The Patriots are 20th in the league rushing. While some of that is attributable to a heavy reliance on the pass, by any measurement the overall season rushing game is not something to be "happy" about. Satisfactory? Probably. Yet now, considering the stats about Riddley that were posted, why would we not want to see if this kid can continue to do what he has been doing on an expanded level, and even see if he can take the performance to an even higher level? The stats, the past month's performance call out for Riddley to see what he can do. Why would we be happy with the status quo 20th when much better rushing production seems eminently possible?

I've long been calling for a balanced offense and have come to accept that it's a passing league and the Patriots run as much as they have too. I have no issue with projecting Ridley as the feature back in the near future, however I'm not silly enough to discount Green-Ellis given he's dealt with turf toe for three quarters of the season.

You're attempting to connect dots that simply aren't connectable at present. How about just enjoying the mix of what's being presented and the cream will rise as always.

For the record, I hope Ridley and Vereen go on the become super players (just a point you should know).

 

[supafly]

The Patriots are 20th in the league rushing. While some of that is attributable to a heavy reliance on the pass, by any measurement the overall season rushing game is not something to be "happy" about. Satisfactory? Probably. Yet now, considering the stats about Riddley that were posted, why would we not want to see if this kid can continue to do what he has been doing on an expanded level, and even see if he can take the performance to an even higher level? The stats, the past month's performance call out for Riddley to see what he can do. Why would we be happy with the status quo 20th when much better rushing production seems eminently possible?

We certainly need improved effiency in the run game, I don't think anyone is going to dispute that fact.

I think that we have done the best with what is there this year, as BJGE has been hurt with turf toe, and Ridley was nothing more than a rookie who has recently earned some increased reps down the stretch.

I think the 20th in the league for yardage gained could certainly improve, and also the "average" of 4.0 yds per carry--but it should be noted that the 2011 Patriots are only one of two teams who did not have a lost fumble via their running backs; that is obviously a very important statistic to have learned.

Another important stat is that the 2011 Patriots were 3rd in the NFL in rushing TD's, having a very hearty 18 as their number.

 

[Patspsycho]

Alot of stat to say that both the RB are different. They are build different and run differently. After the maroney thing and benny beating him even though he was the home run threat i think he is a very good runner.

right now we have benny and woodhead dependable guys.ridley has shown good promise but has fumbled. so if we sign benny we will have 3 RB who can count on. Usually we carry 5 due to the 16 game and rb being injured.

that still leaves 2 spots for rookie and some other lower FA to fill.

this year OL issues has directly contributed to the running game. ...

I doubt that we will be looking for another RB next season- we are good with Woodhead, BJGE, Ridley, Vereen, and Polite (as FB and short yardage specialist).

I think BJGE would be wise to return for less money because I don't think he will flourish in another system as he has here because the run blocking we do is sophisticated and works pretty well (as long as the OL isn't decimated by injuries) and we also have a great run blocking TE in Gronk. It's always a good idea to be part of a RBBC so as to extend your career.

 

[BlueThunder]

I don't think BJGE is a gold digger..I may be wrong, but he doesn't seem the type. I guess it may depend on who his agent is.

Have yet to see what Vereen adds to the mix, but I still like what they have at the RB position. It doesn't seem like a position of need ATM.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

We certainly need improved effiency in the run game, I don't think anyone is going to dispute that fact.

I think that we have done the best with what is there this year, as BJGE has been hurt with turf toe, and Ridley was nothing more than a rookie who has recently earned some increased reps down the stretch.

I think the 20th in the league for yardage gained could certainly improve, and also the "average" of 4.0 yds per carry--but it should be noted that the 2011 Patriots are only one of two teams who did not have a lost fumble via their running backs; that is obviously a very important statistic to have learned.

Another important stat is that the 2011 Patriots were 3rd in the NFL in rushing TD's, having a very hearty 18 as their number.

1) I agree with your second paragraph but would highight "a rookie who has recently earned some increased reps down the stretch". Where is his ceiling? The stats say, albeit with a modest sampling, Riddley is performing at a high level as compared to the rest of the league (not to mention what Andy mentioned as the obvious 'eye test'). What this says to me -- hopefully it says to BB and BOB too -- that we have the real potential to have a rushing attack significantly above what we had in the regular season.

2) The last paragraph is a good point too. This highlights the value of BJGE deep in the redzone (among other values). I see no reason to change that when down near the goal line, near our own goal line, general short yardage situations among others. But between the 10's when we are wanting some big chunks of yards, let's get the ball in the hands of the runner who is showing he can rack up, potentially, lots of yards. I don't see any downside to it. If Riddley falters BJGE is still there.

 

[supafly]

1) I agree with your second paragraph but would highight "a rookie who has recently earned some increased reps down the stretch". Where is his ceiling? The stats say, albeit with a modest sampling, Riddley is performing at a high level as compared to the rest of the league (not to mention what Andy mentioned as the obvious 'eye test'). What this says to me -- hopefully it says to BB and BOB too -- that we have the real potential to have a rushing attack significantly above what we had in the regular season.

2) The last paragraph is a good point too. This highlights the value of BJGE deep in the redzone (among other values). I see no reason to change that when down near the goal line, near our own goal line, general short yardage situations among others. But between the 10's when we are wanting some big chunks of yards, let's get the ball in the hands of the runner who is showing he can rack up, potentially, lots of yards. I don't see any downside to it. If Riddley falters BJGE is still there.

I certainly agree with the thinking that Ridley has earned some reps in the all-important playoff tournament, and hopefully Belichick agrees too.

Let's hope that you're right, as the potential for a much better postseason is certainly there.

I would imagine that the shifted focus on Ridley down the stretch in the last 3-4 games is probably a set-up for the postseason, and was intended on getting him comfortable and more acclimated to the offense.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

I'd give 90% of the carries to Ridley in the playoffs. BJGE is reliabl but he doesn't have the ability to bust one and go 50 yards like Ridley does. He's just not as explosive. I like that dimension with Ridley which is why I would be giving him majority of the carries if I was coaching.

 

[supafly]

I'd give 90% of the carries to Ridley in the playoffs. BJGE is reliabl but he doesn't have the ability to bust one and go 50 yards like Ridley does. He's just not as explosive. I like that dimension with Ridley which is why I would be giving him majority of the carries if I was coaching.

I like your thinking, but one of the main problems is simple...they are primarily a passing team. Another factor is that they employ at times a hurry-up approach, and Woodhead and Faulk are the 2 main backs in that scheme set.

With about 40% (approx.) going to the 3rd down backs, that only leaves approx. 15-18 or so carries. (Average per game in the high 20's)

Out of those 15-18 carries, BJGE will certainly draw at least 5 or so, at least one would think anyway.

That now leaves approx.10-13, maybe 15 at the absolute most..to Stevan Ridley. That is the RBBC approach. Ridley may see 50-60% of the carries, if he is red hot, and maybe the team has a lead and is in clock killing mode, but there's no way that he'd see anywhere near 90%.

I do agree with giving him more carries, but should he fumble but one time, his carries and trust will be greatly affected.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I like your thinking, but one of the main problems is simple...they are primarily a passing team. Another factor is that they employ at times a hurry-up approach, and Woodhead and Faulk are the 2 main backs in that scheme set.

With about 40% (approx.) going to the 3rd down backs, that only leaves approx. 15-18 or so carries. (Average per game in the high 20's)

Out of those 15-18 carries, BJGE will certainly draw at least 5 or so, at least one would think anyway.

That now leaves approx.10-13, maybe 15 at the absolute most..to Stevan Ridley. That is the RBBC approach. Ridley may see 50-60% of the carries, if he is red hot, and maybe the team has a lead and is in clock killing mode, but there's no way that he'd see anywhere near 90%.

I do agree with giving him more carries, but should he fumble but one time, his carries and trust will be greatly affected.

Supafly, what you laid out is correct (and well done). What I am hoping for is the bright flashes that Riddley has been showing will continue in the playoffs and will warrant additional running plays being called (situation allowing obviously). IMHO, with our road to the SB being so uncertain given our ? defense and sometimes ? offense, it would make that road look quite a bit more attractive. The Patriots can always lean heavily on the passing game especially the no huddle version (teams already know we are good at that). It would sure be nice, though, to keep the no huddle component in the holster and draw it only when the opposition starts to get a glimmer of confidence and hope. A potent rushing attack in the playoffs would help make that a reality and Riddley is going to have to lead it.

I realize this is a bit pie in the sky.....but I suspect Riddley may just have it in him (hopefully our OL does too).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I do agree with giving him more carries, but should he fumble but one time, his carries and trust will be greatly affected.

Left out comments on this other point of yours which I agree with 100%. People were labeling Riddley a fumbler for only one fumble. I disagree with this based on a single fumble. Two, though, would be a trend. He puts the ball on the ground again and BJGE is now the clear featured back.

 

[Patspsycho]

I'd give 90% of the carries to Ridley in the playoffs. BJGE is reliabl but he doesn't have the ability to bust one and go 50 yards like Ridley does. He's just not as explosive. I like that dimension with Ridley which is why I would be giving him majority of the carries if I was coaching.

He busted one and went 53 yards in the Bills game.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

He busted one and went 53 yards in the Bills game.

I think that was a screen pass.

Let me say that BJGE is capable of breaking a long run. He has shown markedly less ability to do so however. As mentioned in my other post:

"Ridley has been among the league’s most powerful runners, averaging 2.6 yards after contact per rush. ................However, Ridley was far more than just a niche power rusher, averaging a 20+ yard run once every 17.4 carries. That was the seventh-best average among backs with at least 85 carries"

 

[supafly]

Left out comments on this other point of yours which I agree with 100%. People were labeling Riddley a fumbler for only one fumble. I disagree with this based on a single fumble. Two, though, would be a trend. He puts the ball on the ground again and BJGE is now the clear featured back.

I certainly wouldn't agree with anyone who incorrectly labled Ridley a fumbler, just b/c of one lousy fumble out of bounds; but I do think that the whole "holding onto the ball" aspect may be lurking in the back of Belichick's mind when trying to assess who to give more carries to.

That isn't even Ridley's fault either, as BJGE has shown a consistent dependability trait like no other, so Green-Ellis may have the upper hand with that aspect alone when it comes to the postseason.

I do feel that Belichick is a fair coach who usually gives players an honest chance to prove themselves, and I believe as the season went on he decided that he either liked what he saw from Ridley is practice, or decided to give him a shot based on poorer results from Green-Ellis in general. (Or, it certainly may have been an injury related decision too, in all fairness to BJGE)

By allowing Ridley to gain some comfort and confidence in the past few games, he may indeed be setting him up for an increased role. I believe that as you said, the situation and opponent may dictate just how many carries Ridley is able to get.

Regardless, it looks like he certainly has the potential to be a game changer and add another positive aspect in our running game. Even better, it seems to be happening at the most important time of the season.

 

[satz]

I doubt that we will be looking for another RB next season- we are good with Woodhead, BJGE, Ridley, Vereen, and Polite (as FB and short yardage specialist).

I think BJGE would be wise to return for less money because I don't think he will flourish in another system as he has here because the run blocking we do is sophisticated and works pretty well (as long as the OL isn't decimated by injuries) and we also have a great run blocking TE in Gronk. It's always a good idea to be part of a RBBC so as to extend your career.

Vareen has been injured and its a hamstring.If he had a broken bone i can say yes he will be back.hamstrings once start are a reoccuring problem.Unless the guy shows something i am not giving him a spot like you.He wins one fine but unless he does that he is right now out. Polite was a spl teamer this last week. He is not very versitile like say heath evans type.heath lined up in TE,WR,H-Back ,FB and RB with spl team contribution. You want your 5th RB to be that guy for you. depth in a few positions. Polite is bigger as he was warming up pregame like 10 yrds from me and he is bigger than heath.but heath was way more atheletic.

What do you mean take less money - do you know how much he wants any idea ?. he is currently at 1.8 Million . i think anything deal avg 3 million will get it done. We have the cap space to sign him before march to use the cap space from this year. think about it his contract will be small enough to do that. we cannot resign wes or other bigger guys with the 10 or so million cap other than BJE. It will be a good signing too.

This is the only contract BJE is going to sign and he has worked very hard for it so he needs to sign the best deal .

 

[Patspsycho]

I think that was a screen pass.

Let me say that BJGE is capable of breaking a long run. He has shown markedly less ability to do so however. As mentioned in my other post:

"Ridley has been among the league’s most powerful runners, averaging 2.6 yards after contact per rush. ................However, Ridley was far more than just a niche power rusher, averaging a 20+ yard run once every 17.4 carries. That was the seventh-best average among backs with at least 85 carries"

Yes that was a screen pass which is a couple yards away from being lateral which would make it a run. The fact he was able to break a 53 yard without being tackled, I think, puts to bed the fact he can't run.

I am not discounting Ridley or his impressive accomplishments this season. I think we have a legitimate back in him, so far. I think the test will come next season when there is a lot of tape on him. Buffalo already knows that he runs high and with the ball away from the body- that's why you saw them punching at him to get that ball free. Hopefully he adjusts that.

BJGE is as dull and boring as you can get at RB, but I think he does bring something to the table.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Ever heard of Lawrence Maroney? Maybe you'd prefer him to BJGE too.

Negative. I didn't like Maroney's running style. Therefore, I'm not a fan of his talent as a RB. He was too timid and did too much tip toeing at the line of scrimmage. He had good agility and speed, but sucked at bursting through the lanes created for him.

So yeah, nice try at trying to put words in my mouth.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Absolutely... since BJGE's been dinged up. My point exactly. Thank you.

What would that be? That the only reason Ridley is getting such a big portion of the carries now is only cause of BJGE toe being banged up?

How does that explain is new duties on 3rd down then? Truth is, it doesn't. The coaches are starting to see what they have in Ridley, and he's getting better in pass protection, so he's getting more work.

He's getting more work because he's BETTER.