Ridley officially arrives at crossroads

[MassPats38]

Ridley's fumbling is sloppy technique and is not tied to a hit. He is not a victim of circumstances or unlucky. Running backs commenting on his fumbles say the same. There is no excuse, and there was a reason Bolden was running with both hands on the ball last game. That is the easy fix, and it does not impact his legs or agility on plays.

Ridley is not Adrian, and he is not Chris Johnson (note Johnson, while possessing greater side-to-side agility and speed than Ridley, and has been the focal point of the Titans' offense since arriving and target of defensive scheming, has 13 fumbles in 6 seasons).

I do believe he is the most talented pure RB on the team, and I would love to see him remain, but in present condition he is a loose cannon waiting to inflict a fatal mistake on this team's season. I hope he works on these issues and fixes them, because he is a dangerous weapon when running as he should. This year, he has proved to be equally dangerous to the Pats with his mistakes, actually taking points off the board and on two occasions actually giving the other side points, and there is no acceptable excuse for repeating the same issue for years.

 

[Deus Irae]

Very good question! I still continue to ask that myself. Ben Jarvis was not a phenomenal running back but he got the primary thing that BB wants right. He didn't lose the ball and he got into the endzone more often than not.

With regard to Ridley, I suspect there is a balancing point to be found and Riddler is not a good enough runner to overlook his fumbling.

BJGE was a back-of-the-RB-rotation guy in NE. He's that same guy with the Bengals. He was overpaid on his deal, and the Patriots did the right thing by letting him walk. His 3.7/3.9/3.5 ypc rates in the last 3 seasons tell the tale.

Blount's a better RB than BJGE and is just the RB3, yet he gets all sorts of crap for not being awesome. Gotta love fans....

 

[Deus Irae]

As a pass catcher? Definitely Vereen has a significant impact on our offense. Ridley also has a significant impact as the guy to go with on first and second downs. He's better than all three when you want the most production on the ground.

Just to point out something here, to be taken as you will:

Of the 4 rbs, Ridley is the one with the lowest YPA.

 

[PP2]

As a pass catcher? Definitely Vereen has a significant impact on our offense. Ridley also has a significant impact as the guy to go with on first and second downs. He's better than all three when you want the most production on the ground.

I think Vereen is the more complete player. He is a much more dangerous pass-catcher than Ridley is, and can run when called upon. Also doesn't hurt that he has a whopping total of one fumble in his career.

However, I do see the value in keeping him as a 3rd down back as that will extend his career by a large margin.

 

[Brady6]

It was a stupid comparison. Elite players get more room for error, and more time for development than non-elite players.

What is stupid is to ignore the facets of the context and focus instead only on the name of the players mentioned. If I say Deus Irae miss uses than and then just like poster X it doesn’t mean that I am comparing everything you do as poster it just means that aspect of your posting is similar and if you were able to overcome the issues with than and then why can’t poster X. This is not about Peterson or Ridley this is about 1 poster being so gung-ho to point out something that another poster did wrong out that they just look for the material they can use to serve that purpose and ignore the premise and context of the post.

Ridley is an elite player, look at his 2012 rankings:

Rushing yards – 7th
Rushing touchdowns – 3rd
Rushing first downs – 3rd

So if elite players really get more time to develop and are allowed more room for error why was Ridley inactive yesterday? Before you argue Ridley is not elite you should take a look at his numbers over his first 512 carries compared to some of the best RB past and present. (Peterson, Emmitt Smith, Curtis Martin, etc.)

 

[Deus Irae]

What is stupid is to ignore the facets of the context and focus instead only on the name of the players mentioned. If I say Deus Irae miss uses than and then just like poster X it doesn’t mean that I am comparing everything you do as poster it just means that aspect of your posting is similar and if you were able to overcome the issues with than and then why can’t poster X. This is not about Peterson or Ridley this is about 1 poster being so gung-ho to point out something that another poster did wrong out that they just look for the material they can use to serve that purpose and ignore the premise and context of the post.

Ridley is an elite player, look at his 2012 rankings:

Rushing yards – 7th
Rushing touchdowns – 3rd
Rushing first downs – 3rd

So if elite players really get more time to develop and are allowed more room for error why was Ridley inactive yesterday? Before you argue Ridley is not elite you should take a look at his numbers over his first 512 carries compared to some of the best RB past and present. (Peterson, Emmitt Smith, Curtis Martin, etc.)

What's stupid is comparisons to all-time greats in situations like this. It's why we mock Jets fans when they do it (Look at how Brady was playing at the beginning of the year, when his supporting cast wasn't all world!).

And claiming Ridley is an elite player at this stage of his career is ridiculous.

 

[moosekill]

Just to point out something here, to be taken as you will:

Of the 4 rbs, Ridley is the one with the lowest YPA.

But heck Ridley never gets hit in the backfield, and if he does he spins out of it and always, I mean always gets at least 2 yards.

Blount can't run worth a crap, only gets his yards when the other team is very tired and needs a nap, or in one long run, while getting stopped every other time for a loss. Plus he fumbles a lot.

 

[fumbrunner]

Ridley is an elite player, look at his 2012 rankings:

Rushing yards – 7th
Rushing touchdowns – 3rd
Rushing first downs – 3rd

You have to have more than one good year to be considered "elite" IMO. Did he have a great year last year? Yep, but how has he fared this year? Consistency is the key and to date, he hasn't been about to do that.

 

[JackBauer]

Blount can't run worth a crap, only gets his yards when the other team is very tired and needs a nap, or in one long run, while getting stopped every other time for a loss. Plus he fumbles a lot.

Blount has actually been quite solid this year. Not amazing by any stretch, but a superlative RB3, for sure.

Ridley's the best pure runner they have, by a pretty wide margin. Watching Bolden run yesterday should underscore that fact. I'm fairly confident the former will get it together.

 

[moosekill]

You have to have more than one good year to be considered "elite" IMO. Did he have a great year last year? Yep, but how has he fared this year? Consistency is the key and to date, he hasn't been about to do that.

Now preface this by saying I like Ridley when he doesn't fumble. That being said, throw out the touch down number, he scored a lot because the Patriots had one of the highest scoring offenses ever, and he got a huge number of chances based on that. He got a ton of yards, and first downs,because defenses decided to try and stop Brady from throwing the ball, and for the most part decided to give the Pats the run and try and take away the throw.

This isn't the Vikings with AP, a team with no passing game to speak of, where every team goes in there with the plan of stopping him, and he still piles up huge numbers, the running back for the Patriots is the afterthought.

 

[Brady6]

Just to point out something here, to be taken as you will:

Of the 4 rbs, Ridley is the one with the lowest YPA.

That is true:
Vereen – 5.1 yards per carry
Bolden – 4.9 yards per carry
Blount – 4.4 yards per carry
Ridley – 4.3 yard per carry

Of course you should consider Vereen and Bolden have served different roles and Blount averages 5.6 yards a carry in the fourth quarter this season many times gaining garbage yards during games such as the ones against Pittsburg and Tampa.

The two games Ridley has not played week 5 and yesterday Blount has a 3.95 yard per carry average and Bolden has a 3.71 yard per carry average. I am not dogging any of the other back I think we have a fantastic stable of young runners but looking at yards per carry does not tell the actual story.

 

[Deus Irae]

But heck Ridley never gets hit in the backfield, and if he does he spins out of it and always, I mean always gets at least 2 yards.

Blount can't run worth a crap, only gets his yards when the other team is very tired and needs a nap, or in one long run, while getting stopped every other time for a loss. Plus he fumbles a lot.

Just to piggyback off of your post:

In just the Denver game alone, two of Ridley's four carries, including the one where he fumbled, were for no gain. Blount fumbled as well, but his 2 carries were against a fresh Broncos defense, and he had gains of 4 yards and 9 yards on those attempts.

Ridley also had two runs for negative yards, a run for no gain, and another fumble, against the Panthers. In that same game, Blount had one run for no gain, and one run for 1 yard.

 

[moosekill]

Blount has actually been quite solid this year. Not amazing by any stretch, but a superlative RB3, for sure.

Ridley's the best pure runner they have, by a pretty wide margin. Watching Bolden run yesterday should underscore that fact. I'm fairly confident the former will get it together.

People keep saying this, throw out Bolden, compare Blount and Ridley and tell me why Ridley is so much better than Blount. Don't even factor in the fumbles.

 

[JMarr]

BJGE was a back-of-the-RB-rotation guy in NE. He's that same guy with the Bengals. He was overpaid on his deal, and the Patriots did the right thing by letting him walk. His 3.7/3.9/3.5 ypc rates in the last 3 seasons tell the tale.

Blount's a better RB than BJGE and is just the RB3, yet he gets all sorts of crap for not being awesome. Gotta love fans....

No, BJGE was the numero uno workhorse in NE for two seasons, just as he is (or was at the beginning) in Cincy. Is he overpaid now? Yes. But I think BB would take a guy with a 3.9 yard average who runs downhill and never fumbles as his main back any day of the week. BJGE spoiled Belichick bigtime and Ridley's probably suffering because of it.

I want Ridley in there badly--makes play action light years more effective--but minimizing turnovers is the name of the game, period.

 

[Kdo5]

The idea that Blount and Bolden are arguably better than Ridley is a joke. He sets up PA better than both, he is better at the goal line than both, and he can make something out of nothing. I find it difficult to think that some stats from this season prove otherwise.

We shall see the next few weeks because both sides aren't going to budge. Then we can judge just how big of an impact the run game will be w/o Ridley.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Ridley is quickly becoming one of the more polarizing patriots I can remember. There seems to be a rift in the fanbase:

(regardless of fumbling)
Half thinks he's a top back/very talented.
Half thinks he's an average system back/not very talented.

Curious to see what BB thinks next year.

 

[Ozymandias]

It would seem we are back to this elite production always equals elite talent nonsense that I've been seeing around here often when it comes to Rids. It's simple really, he's NOT an elite talent. Production ? Talent

In many areas, he's not even second best on his on team, such as:

• Acceleration - Ridley
• Speed - Vereen
• Power - Blount
• Vision - Ridley
• Elusiveness - Vereen
• Tackle-breaking - Ridley
• Downhill running - Blount
• Pass Catching - Vereen
• Pass Protection - Vereen

Of these all encompassing attributes for a running back, Ridley is tops in arguably three of them. Whilst Vereen is tops in many of them and has demonstrated a wider array of versatility amongst all of the RBs on the team. It should come to no one's surprise that he's been the one to have been playing the most snaps since his return from his wrist injury. He's a vital part of what the Patriots want to do offensively.

A two-down without any versatility that has fumbling issues is not worth the trouble as a lead back until he fixes his ball security issues. Ridley won't see much playing time until he earns the trust of the coaching staff again, as it rightfully should be.

That's the difference here, if Ridley were an elite talented player and a vital part of the offense the team would not have made him a healthy scratch. They did so because they view him and the position he's plays (2-down back) as easily replaceable on a game-by-game basis depending on the opponent. Without Ridley, the Patriots have scored 68 points in basically the last 7 quarters and the offense didn't miss a beat. So clearly the coaching staff was on to something.

 

[manxman2601]

Not to be boring but if they determine that they can't "fix" Ridley, I'd like to see some sort of Ingram-Ridley swap with the Saints. one thing Ingram can't be faulted on is his ball handling and I think he could be a better runner than he is in NO behind our more mobile O Line.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, BJGE was the numero uno workhorse in NE for two seasons, just as he is (or was at the beginning) in Cincy. Is he overpaid now? Yes. But I think BB would take a guy with a 3.9 yard average who runs downhill and never fumbles as his main back any day of the week. BJGE spoiled Belichick bigtime and Ridley's probably suffering because of it.

I want Ridley in there badly--makes play action light years more effective--but minimizing turnovers is the name of the game, period.

No, BJGE was a back-of-the-rotation back who was playing the RB1 by default, first because Maroney and Taylor were hurt all the time, and then because Maroney and Taylor were shot RBs. BJGE was not, and is not, a legitimate RB1 in the NFL.

 

[manxman2601]

It would seem we are back to this elite production always equals elite talent nonsense that I've been seeing around here often when it comes to Rids. It's simple really, he's NOT an elite talent. Production ? Talent

In many areas, he's not even second best on his on team, such as:

• Acceleration - Ridley
• Speed - Vereen
• Power - Blount
• Vision - Ridley
• Elusiveness - Vereen
• Tackle-breaking - Ridley
• Downhill running - Blount
• Pass Catching - Vereen
• Pass Protection - Vereen

Of these all encompassing attributes for a running back, Ridley is tops in arguably three of them. Whilst Vereen is tops in many of them and has demonstrated a wider array of versatility amongst all of the RBs on the team. It should come to no one's surprise that he's been the one to have been playing the most snaps since his return from his wrist injury.

A two-down without any versatility with fumbling issues is not worth the trouble as a lead back until he fixes his ball security issues. Ridley won't see much playing time until he earns the trust of the coaching staff again, as it rightfully should be.

That's the difference here, if Ridley were an elite talented player and a vital part of the offense the team would not have made him a healthy scratch. They did so because they view him and the position he's plays (2-down back) and easily replaceable on a game-by-game basis depending on the opponent. Without Ridley, the Patriots have scored 68 points in basically the last 7 quarters and the offense didn't miss a beat. So clearly the coaching staff was on to something.

I don't necessarily agree with your 'elusiveness' determination. Maybe Vereen's better in open field, but in the box, Ridley's elusiveness thanks to his quick feet is top notch. It's arguably his biggest strength.