Reports: Adrian Wilson, Abraham to visit Pats

[Huckleberry1]

The problem with Reed is that supposedly he and Pollard were both negative influences in the BAL locker room lately. Of course we don't know if those reports are true or not, but it's possible that guys like Lewis etc were able to keep the lockerroom tight enough while he was there. As of now, BAL doesn't want either one back now that Lewis is gone, so there may indeed be some level of truth to it.

Reed also will be demanding more money, so Belichick likely doesn't see the same value in him. On top of that there were some twitter chatterers who stated that he's definitely signing with HOU in the morning, so I doubt they'd let him leave.

Pollard is a scumbag and a punk, I have never heard a negative report about Reed at any time, and given that they could really use him and Wilson couldn't even start for one of the worst teams in football I would take reed every day and at 5 million consider it a bargain, it isn't going to be a long term deal. Belichick could have him in NE with just a phone call, Reed would use the leverage at a minimium.

The Patriots entered free agency with the opportunity to really make a difference and now people seem happy if they just add old depth, that's bizarre to me. I can see adding a couple of older depth players but not at the expense of getting a couple of real difference makers. imo Patriot fans have become overenamored with cheap when great teams need a number of truly great players to win big games.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Some people don't know the roster too well

And others don't know football too well. Taking benchwarmers off of bad teams is a recipe for waste and mediocrity. Both safeties need good coverage skills in this NFL, Wilson lacks them and was benched because of them.

 

[Huckleberry1]

There are a couple of thoughts to the Wilson possibilities:

1. Belichick has craved that Don Davis hybrid role for awhile now, and the experiment failed with another vet safety at the end of his career, John Lynch. I wonder if Belichick has any ideas of Wilson playing this LB/SS role or not?

2. I think how Belichick feels about the safety position may depend on whether or not he sees a weakness in the tackling area, as some certainly did at times during the season. Remember it was Belichick who told Devin McCourty when he was signed, "we have no such thing as a cover corner here, you WILL tackle." The ability to tackle is extremely important to Belichick, and I think he may have seen a weakness in that secondary role at times last year. While Wilson has lost a step or two in the coverage area, he still is a veteran presence in the secondary (good for Tavon Wilson and a potential high round safety pick), is a very hard hitter, and can definitely tackle. Some of us see the need for 2 FS types back there with better speed, but maybe Belichick sees the need for a SS type on early downs? That leads me to my next point...

3. Wilson could be a role player, who doesn't see nearly the amount of reps some here will expect him to. He may offer his ability to do the things in the lockerroom and on the practice field to help break in the rookie and 2nd yr players, and also play on some early downs in the box more, and/or later in the game when the score is more decided. Another thought is more big nickel possibilities? McCourty as the FS with Adrian Wilson as the SS, with Tavon Wilson covering the TE? It's a thought to ponder.

4. This one goes back to addressing the weakness of tackling, but it's also possible that Belichick may see him somewhat in a Chung type role, or even as a replacement for Chung and/or a role player like J.Sanders was at times, with the ability to start if needed with a downgrade as a backup.

5. If the deal is low enough he may actually be able to be a 4-5 safety, who may even not be guaranteed to make the team. He could even be brought in to see how he looks in TC and end up being camp fodder. Again, that's if the deal is low enough.

Sup, i think they can get their end of the roster big safety at any time, right now they should be focused on getting the players who are in demand for good reason. That doesn't mean the big money guys but the mid range guys who can make a difference. As I said before if all they are going to do is get the bottom feeders it is going to be one sh.tty offseason. 3 million dollar vets are mediocre at best, they need some guys who can really make a difference. They aren't going to get s starter at safety, WR, or DB for 3 million dollars, just jags. As things stand right now the Patriots have gotten worse and that's not a good sign if they continue to go for the 3 million dollar players they will end up a worse team than 2012, at least imo.

 

[supafly]

Sup, i think they can get their end of the roster big safety at any time, right now they should be focused on getting the players who are in demand for good reason. That doesn't mean the big money guys but the mid range guys who can make a difference. As I said before if all they are going to do is get the bottom feeders it is going to be one sh.tty offseason. 3 million dollar vets are mediocre at best, they need some guys who can really make a difference. They aren't going to get s starter at safety, WR, or DB for 3 million dollars, just jags. As things stand right now the Patriots have gotten worse and that's not a good sign if they continue to go for the 3 million dollar players they will end up a worse team than 2012, at least imo.

I too, feel some of your frustration with the market being low and missing out on some potential difference makers. One that I personally wanted was Michael Bennett. Seeing him sign a contract for 1/5 in SEA did not make me happy. Seeing DRC go to DEN gave me the same kind of feeling. The only thing I can say is that I imagine Belichick did not see the same potential or fit for some of these players as we did, and all we can do is trust in Belichick.

As far for "how" they approach their needs, and whether they do it now or later, I really don't care. It's possible that Belichick made a mental or physical list of some areas that need addressing, and he is trying to do that with value players. For example--passrusher: Abraham, WR depth to improve the WR3 or WR4: Donald Thomas or even Josh Cribbs, ST: Washington, or even Cribbs again. I understand your concern on waiting until the best players are gone. Maybe he sees the market as so vast and deep that he can address everything in due time?

My guess is that at this point he wants to resign Talib at a fair price of 4.5 to 5 million dollars on a lower yr deal, and that's the guy he's been looking at the whole time. That makes sense, I just didn't see any kind of fit for Talib at the prices most of these posters were throwing out of 35,40+ million dollars. I thought that was ridiculous. Aside from that, I think most of want him back on a fair deal, so maybe Belichick is confident that will happen and that's why he hasn't made a move at the position yet.

There's a probability that Belichick views the draft and FA in the same vein where he addresses some needs now and already knows what areas he'll be targeting come next month, and we'll find our safety there (and maybe CB and/or WR too). There's also the possibility that he views spending a 2nd rd pick last year on Wilson as a major move, and plans on giving him the majority of reps as the safety opposite McCourty this season too.

Besides being slightly frustrated (despite Belichick's success of course and awesome knowledge) about the lack of better talent signings, the other thing that is making me concerned is the fact that we haven't signed any of our own yet. That is something I thought would have happened by now, at least 2-3 players, possibly even a couple of wks ago...I would love to see Woodhead, Edelman, and/or Arrington and Vollmer back too, at least some combination of that.

It's possible that Belichick is playing into a bigger picture here, and waiting for the market prices to taper off. On top of that, he could also either be planning on extending one of our own (Spikes, possibly even McCourty very early), or even planning on bringing 10+ million plus into next season too, due to the flat cap era. I'm guessing his conservative nature this year (even moreso) has something to do with a bigger picture. Of course there's also the chance of making a major move like Revis, Cruz, player of your choice, etc...

 

[Triumph]

I am not delighted about Wilson. As a Cardinals season ticket holder I have a bit of perspective on this. I've seen him play probably 50 times. There is a reaon the Cardinals cut him. This is a franchise in trouble and very concerned about season ticket renewals. Wilson is a lifetime Cardinal who is about as beloved as a player can be on a team. He is an icon here. When you need to sell tickets, this is not a guy you cut over $2.5 million if he has game left.

He was late to the play a lot last year. Sure, he hit the crap out of guys after they caught the ball, but they shouldn't have caught the ball. Now, the Cards fell apart last year and stopped playing, so maybe he gave up a little. And maybe he's simply the best option for a SS. But I am hardly doing cartwheels.

Some people here think Wilson is Rodney Harrison incarnate.

Its the same euphoria every off season around here. Remember when Duane Starks, Shaun Ellis, Stinko and Fat Albert Haynesworth signed up in Foxboro and Pats fans were dancing on their roofs?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Some people here think Wilson is Rodney Harrison incarnate.

Its the same euphoria every off season around here. Remember when Duane Starks, Shaun Ellis, Stinko and Fat Albert Haynesworth signed up in Foxboro and Pats fans were dancing on their roofs?

Think is Wilson is better than 90% of those players

 

[Triumph]

Re: Report: Adrian Wilson to visit Pats

Based on last season, Adrian Wilson is a two-down, run-specialist SS. The Cards took him out of their subpackages because he was a liability. If that's what the Pats would be getting, then I don't want him. The Pats don't need another safety that can't cover.

If they anticipate being able to get more than that out of him, then that'd be great.

The alternative is Tavon Wilson. Rookie mistakes in coverage are a lot easier to recover from than mistakes in coverage caused by being old.

Dead on.

The Pats need DBs who can cover and thats why Reed would make this pass defense legit. Wilson doesnt do that sitting on his butt on passing downs or getting abused by opposing QBs. In 2012, SF completed 15 total passes and 4 were TDs. Look at all the Super Bowls and games the Pats have lost lately and virtually every one was because the pass defense blows.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Some people here think Wilson is Rodney Harrison incarnate.

Its the same euphoria every off season around here. Remember when Duane Starks, Shaun Ellis, Stinko and Fat Albert Haynesworth signed up in Foxboro and Pats fans were dancing on their roofs?

Thank you! These old geezers on the way back end of their careers are not going to do crap for this team come playoff time. They get hurt, get cut, or just disappear as the year goes on.

Time to get prime playmakers 26-30 years old. All of these signings aren't going to get you where you want to go.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I too, feel some of your frustration with the market being low and missing out on some potential difference makers. One that I personally wanted was Michael Bennett. Seeing him sign a contract for 1/5 in SEA did not make me happy. Seeing DRC go to DEN gave me the same kind of feeling. The only thing I can say is that I imagine Belichick did not see the same potential or fit for some of these players as we did, and all we can do is trust in Belichick.

As far for "how" they approach their needs, and whether they do it now or later, I really don't care. It's possible that Belichick made a mental or physical list of some areas that need addressing, and he is trying to do that with value players. For example--passrusher: Abraham, WR depth to improve the WR3 or WR4: Donald Thomas or even Josh Cribbs, ST: Washington, or even Cribbs again. I understand your concern on waiting until the best players are gone. Maybe he sees the market as so vast and deep that he can address everything in due time?

My guess is that at this point he wants to resign Talib at a fair price of 4.5 to 5 million dollars on a lower yr deal, and that's the guy he's been looking at the whole time. That makes sense, I just didn't see any kind of fit for Talib at the prices most of these posters were throwing out of 35,40+ million dollars. I thought that was ridiculous. Aside from that, I think most of want him back on a fair deal, so maybe Belichick is confident that will happen and that's why he hasn't made a move at the position yet.

There's a probability that Belichick views the draft and FA in the same vein where he addresses some needs now and already knows what areas he'll be targeting come next month, and we'll find our safety there (and maybe CB and/or WR too). There's also the possibility that he views spending a 2nd rd pick last year on Wilson as a major move, and plans on giving him the majority of reps as the safety opposite McCourty this season too.

Besides being slightly frustrated (despite Belichick's success of course and awesome knowledge) about the lack of better talent signings, the other thing that is making me concerned is the fact that we haven't signed any of our own yet. That is something I thought would have happened by now, at least 2-3 players, possibly even a couple of wks ago...I would love to see Woodhead, Edelman, and/or Arrington and Vollmer back too, at least some combination of that.

It's possible that Belichick is playing into a bigger picture here, and waiting for the market prices to taper off. On top of that, he could also either be planning on extending one of our own (Spikes, possibly even McCourty very early), or even planning on bringing 10+ million plus into next season too, due to the flat cap era. I'm guessing his conservative nature this year (even moreso) has something to do with a bigger picture. Of course there's also the chance of making a major move like Revis, Cruz, player of your choice, etc...

I guess where i am coming from is the point of view that you don't get starters, let alone really good ones, for 3 million dollars in free agency, and while some of those players are necessary they shouldn't be the focal point of free agency unless you are already loaded with positional playmakers and just need depth. imo the Patriots entered free agency with 3 serious needs, and swapping Welker for a lesser replacement didn't address any of them. They still need a playmaker at WR, a pass rusher, which Abraham does help with, and 2 DB's who can start, and a guy who couldn't start anymore for the Cards isn't an answer but a part time bandage. I'm fine with the Andre Carter approach where they pick up some guys later in the offseason but right now i want guys like Jennings and Reed and maybe even Winfield at a lower price, for the most part i am easy with who Belichick goes with and believe he could go with scrabble, Talib, Winfield, Reed etc, but that they have to be full time starters, not just back ups. Same goes for Freeney, who is unlikely now Abraham appears to be here, but could really make big plays for them. I also think they should be signing Vollmer as his market hasn't materialized and they need him and don't need more holes.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Think is Wilson is better than 90% of those players

Must be why he couldn't start for arizona.

 

[strngplyr]

Initially I wanted Wilson, I'm now of the opinion that I'd rather 2 FS who can cover. It's a pass first NFL. Our biggest competition in the division is trying everything they can to improve their pass offense and sacrificing the run game in the process. The Broncos, Steelers, and Bengals have all become pass first teams. The Saints and Falcons, who we play both of this year, are pass first.

I see it as a myth that we need a run-support safety, we already have a top tier run-stuffing front 7. The back 4/5 really need to improve in coverage if we want to take a step forward. We don't need a linebacker-sized safety playing in the back 3rd of the defense.

 

[deters]

Thank you! These old geezers on the way back end of their careers are not going to do crap for this team come playoff time. They get hurt, get cut, or just disappear as the year goes on.

Time to get prime playmakers 26-30 years old. All of these signings aren't going to get you where you want to go.

Haven't you heard? We're bringing in Hoveround, Polident, and Huggies for adults as our new sponsors!

 

[Huckleberry1]

The Patriots are clever enough to be able to construct deals to get Vollmer, Reed, Talib, and Jennings done, and they can fill out the scrubs later. If not they can come up with a reasonable facsimile, the players don't have to be exact but the quality pretty much does.

 

[Wilfork#75]

The Patriots are clever enough to be able to construct deals to get Vollmer, Reed, Talib, and Jennings done, and they can fill out the scrubs later. If not they can come up with a reasonable facsimile, the players don't have to be exact but the quality pretty much does.

How are Reed and Jennings that much different from Wilson and Abraham? Reed is 34 years old, plays the same position as McCourty and is a gambler at the back which doesn't gel with our defensive philosophy. Jennings is 29 years old, missed significant time last year and is declining. Vollmer obviously has serious medical red flags scaring teams away otherwise there would be much more interest in him and he would have likely signed with someone like Chicago or Indy. The Pats are still talking with Talib and their strategy of waiting looks like it could work out perfectly and we could get him on a great deal.

On Wilson and Abraham, do you understand the concept of role players? Guys like Wilson and Abraham aren't going to get big money deals and they aren't going to stop this team from drafting or signing bigger name players, but they could play significant roles on this team. Would you be upset if Abraham becomes another Andre Carter or Mark Anderson and gets 10 sacks as a sub rusher? Will you be upset if Wilson comes in and plays SS in the base, matches up against TE's and moves to a coverage LBer role in sub packages?

Who are these difference makers people are talking about that we missed out on? Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett who were both outperformed by Abraham for the last 3 years? Their age is irrelevant because they took short deals to hit the market in a year or two when more money is available. Sean Smith and DRC who really aren't really any better than the guys that are still available. Dashon Goldson and Mike Wallace who are overrated and overpaid? This isn't a great free agent class with elite players that are going to come in and make a huge difference. This free agent class is similar to the draft class, where there isn't talent at the top, but there is good depth and will be great value. Like the draft where we should be patient, we are sitting back, letting the market play out and we will get some great deals later on. In a few week people will be saying how much of a genius BB is and how great an offseason we are having because we will get quality veterans at great prices.

 

[ausbacker]

How are Reed and Jennings that much different from Wilson and Abraham? Reed is 34 years old, plays the same position as McCourty and is a gambler at the back which doesn't gel with our defensive philosophy. Jennings is 29 years old, missed significant time last year and is declining. Vollmer obviously has serious medical red flags scaring teams away otherwise there would be much more interest in him and he would have likely signed with someone like Chicago or Indy. The Pats are still talking with Talib and their strategy of waiting looks like it could work out perfectly and we could get him on a great deal.

On Wilson and Abraham, do you understand the concept of role players? Guys like Wilson and Abraham aren't going to get big money deals and they aren't going to stop this team from drafting or signing bigger name players, but they could play significant roles on this team. Would you be upset if Abraham becomes another Andre Carter or Mark Anderson and gets 10 sacks as a sub rusher? Will you be upset if Wilson comes in and plays SS in the base, matches up against TE's and moves to a coverage LBer role in sub packages?

Who are these difference makers people are talking about that we missed out on? Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett who were both outperformed by Abraham for the last 3 years? Their age is irrelevant because they took short deals to hit the market in a year or two when more money is available. Sean Smith and DRC who really aren't really any better than the guys that are still available. Dashon Goldson and Mike Wallace who are overrated and overpaid? This isn't a great free agent class with elite players that are going to come in and make a huge difference. This free agent class is similar to the draft class, where there isn't talent at the top, but there is good depth and will be great value. Like the draft where we should be patient, we are sitting back, letting the market play out and we will get some great deals later on. In a few week people will be saying how much of a genius BB is and how great an offseason we are having because we will get quality veterans at great prices.

Jennings and Reed have sexy names in the eyes of many. That's the difference.

 

[strngplyr]

Jennings and Reed have sexy names in the eyes of many. That's the difference.

They're all proven players, but Reed and Jennings are on the market more for contractual issues, Wilson and Abraham are out there more for age issues.

Reed and Jennings are sexier names for a reason.

I'll draw a middle line though, how about we take Jennings and Abraham, please everyone? (yeah yeah, we all know Jennings is unlikely, you the forum doesn't need to be told)

 

[Wilfork#75]

They're all proven players, but Reed and Jennings are on the market more for contractual issues, Wilson and Abraham are out there more for age issues.

Reed and Jennings are sexier names for a reason.

I'll draw a middle line though, how about we take Jennings and Abraham, please everyone? (yeah yeah, we all know Jennings is unlikely, you the forum doesn't need to be told)

I'm not against Reed or Jennings, I just think its stupid to bash Abraham and Wilson (who were both cut because of cap reasons) then call for us to sign a 34 year old FS and a 29 year old, injured and declining WR. Reed and Abraham are very similar cases, except you can argue that Abraham is playing at a higher level still. The two guys we have visiting now were both also cut, which means they wouldn't count towards compensation picks, unlike some of these 'sexy' free agents.

On Wilson's coverage, he was ranked 18th among safeties and had a 78.8 QB rating against in 2012. Its not elite, but its certainly not as horrendous as people claim. Does he have some deficiencies? Absolutely, but you cover that by putting him in positions to succeed. I don't think anybody here is saying give him a big contract and let him patrol deep CF, he is a role player and a potentially valuable one.

And on the middle ground of Jennings and Abraham, I certainly wouldn't be against it for the right price. If he drops close to Welker price range I would be all over it.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Thank you! These old geezers on the way back end of their careers are not going to do crap for this team come playoff time. They get hurt, get cut, or just disappear as the year goes on.

Time to get prime playmakers 26-30 years old. All of these signings aren't going to get you where you want to go.

Why do the players we sign have to be relatively young? You wan young players that will stay with you team awhile? Use the draft correctly then.

And as for the whole "26-30" range, some of our best players in the Belichick era have been out of the "playmaking" range come playoff time: Harrison(31), Ted Washington(36!), Phifer(33), Seau(36), and probably a few more I'm missing.

Veteran leadership is essential in the NFL. Look at the Giants in 2007,2011 and the Ravens in 2012. They weren't exactly full of the youngest guys out there. And they still won the Super Bowl.

 

[bagwell368]

The Patriots are clever enough to be able to construct deals to get Vollmer, Reed, Talib, and Jennings done, and they can fill out the scrubs later. If not they can come up with a reasonable facsimile, the players don't have to be exact but the quality pretty much does.

Jennings is going to ~$10M/yr
Vollmer and Talib combined at least $8M - probably closer to $10M
Reed $5-6M

That would put us ~$8M over the cap. Who are you going to cut to pay for that, the draft, and the scrubs?

Pipe Dream!

 

[DaBronxPats14]

If we can't get Reed I ike this sign. Wilson is all-round Lock It Up BB.