Report: Mac was reaching out to other coaches about his frustrations with the offense

[Huckleberry1]

Most of us regular folks with regular jobs won't have a problem with it, but do you think Bill would?

That depends upon who was talking to and what they were talking about? I don’t believe Belichick would care if he was talking to Sana, MacDaniels or others who Belichick knows and trusts. And it’s hard to see how he could go behind Belichick’s back when he’s only in his 2nd year, and has limited contacts within the league.

 

[Ian]

it just stemmed from the comments months ago where people claimed Zappe's arm was exponentially better.

And @venecol, the above is honestly the only reason I even looked into it months ago, because, like everyone else, our memory of a player is different than how they really looked in real-time. The two are literally within milliseconds of each other. But there just isn't this massive gap between he and Mac the way that people said there was, which was the only point.

 

[Dingleberry]

Zappe went 17 for 21 against Detroit in a game that was run heavy in scheme being his first start, and considering the score he did all he was asked to, and more.

Ya but those four incompletion were ugly.

 

[All3Phases]

That depends upon who was talking to and what they were talking about? I don’t believe Belichick would care if he was talking to Sana, MacDaniels or others who Belichick knows and trusts. And it’s hard to see how he could go behind Belichick’s back when he’s only in his 2nd year, and has limited contacts within the league.

There’s a million other coaches on the staff, in which Bill assumingely thinks are all capable. Easy to find somebody to talk to, unless Mac trusts none of them. Then you have a bigger issue on your hands

 

[Dingleberry]

And @venecol, the above is honestly the only reason I even looked into it months ago, because, like everyone else, our memory of a player is different than how they really looked in real-time. The two are literally within milliseconds of each other. But there just isn't this massive gap between he and Mac the way that people said there was, which was the only point.

I would put pocket presence and field vision way ahead of arm strength in importance.

Mac was hit or miss with this in year 1, some good some bad. What anyone would expect from a rookie. Year 2 was atrocious. Year 3 with a real OC will decide what Mac is. I hope he takes a major leap with good coaching. I am not optimistic. But hopeful.

Those who like Zappe saw superior pocket awareness/mobility and field vision (in a LIMITED sample size) and were intrigued. I wanted to see more with full preparation. He might have flopped, but I really wanted to see it. He looked like more of a natural QB than Mac. Again, in a limited sample size.

That, I believe, is the Zappe argument in a nutshell. Nobody really believes with certainty that Zappe is a sure thing. Those who pump him up as that are merely looking to trigger the Maccabites.

 

[neuronet]

?? zapp ?? time!

 

[Ian]

I would put pocket presence and field vision way ahead of arm strength in importance.

Mac was hit or miss with this in year 1, some good some bad. What anyone would expect from a rookie. Year 2 was atrocious. Year 3 with a real OC will decide what Mac is. I hope he takes a major leap with good coaching. I am not optimistic. But hopeful.

Those who like Zappe saw superior pocket awareness/mobility and field vision (in a LIMITED sample size) and were intrigued. I wanted to see more with full preparation. He might have flopped, but I really wanted to see it. He looked like more of a natural QB than Mac. Again, in a limited sample size.

That, I believe, is the Zappe argument in a nutshell. Nobody really believes with certainty that Zappe is a sure thing. Those who pump him up as that are merely looking to trigger the Maccabites.

I mean, I would say the absolute biggest positive that no one here is really talking about is the fact that Zappe's play massively pushed Mac to improve, which was apparent down the stretch. Prior to the Bills game, he threw one interception over the previous eight games (8TDs, 1INT). Pretty sure Zappe's emergence probably motivated him a bit.

Being on the outside looking in this weekend, it's obviously just too bad they didn't flip a few of those games they were close in. But overall, who knows how it will ultimately play out. As I said, having two guys on the roster who can play QB isn't a bad thing.

 

[Wozzy]

Now, now about half the thread is people arguing over who has the weaker arm Mac or Zappe.

Tom Brady and Joe Montana had "weak arms" as well.... at least they're in good company.

 

[Vindicate]

I would put pocket presence and field vision way ahead of arm strength in importance.

Mac was hit or miss with this in year 1, some good some bad. What anyone would expect from a rookie. Year 2 was atrocious. Year 3 with a real OC will decide what Mac is. I hope he takes a major leap with good coaching. I am not optimistic. But hopeful.

Those who like Zappe saw superior pocket awareness/mobility and field vision (in a LIMITED sample size) and were intrigued. I wanted to see more with full preparation. He might have flopped, but I really wanted to see it. He looked like more of a natural QB than Mac. Again, in a limited sample size.

That, I believe, is the Zappe argument in a nutshell. Nobody really believes with certainty that Zappe is a sure thing. Those who pump him up as that are merely looking to trigger the Maccabites.

I seem to remember folks saying Zappe was tasked with a "simplified" offense that looked a lot like what worked for Mac in year 1. If this is the case, I remember Mac, too, looking a lot more confident. I guess the question at that point is, does Zappe look markedly more confident than year 1 Mac?

Again, to your point - too limited sample sizes - but that is I think one of the questions that should be asked in this hypothetical.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

I don't think Mac is being traded. That's hogwash. But if he is, trade him to TB if Brady retires. With that elite team, he could take them far. Good OL (when healthy) and plenty of weapons at WR. He'll have time in the pocket to throw to elite receivers like Evans and Godwin.

Nah, their scheme and roster is predicted on having a QB that can consistently get rid of the ball with great zip. They went from Winston to Brady. Mac would not fit that team well. Vegas is the best place for Mac.

 

[TommyD4207]

That's fine Ian, we get it. You were trying to compare similar throws w/ same or similar distances to gage speed between them.

I was looking at ball velocity results for QBs in the combine going back to 2016. In almost every instance, their throws to the right (like Zappe's) were slower by 1 to 2 mph than to the left (like Mac's). So even there the two throws are not the same.

It's just that you then draw conclusions making it look like their speed is different because of one being a rookie and the other having gone through offseason w/outs instead of a disclaimer. Whatever.

I mean, you can't honestly believe that Zappe doesn't have a noodle arm.
Mac Jones isn't Dan Marino, but Zappe was throwing lollipops out there. Usually accurate lollipops, but lollipops none the less.



Most QBs, this is a walk-in TD, not a circus catch.
Jones, probably, doesn't get enough depth on his drop, and either throws it out of the endzone or to the safety, but assuming he didn't, he lays that one right in there, that's stealing.

 

[Deus Irae]

I seem to remember folks saying Zappe was tasked with a "simplified" offense that looked a lot like what worked for Mac in year 1. If this is the case, I remember Mac, too, looking a lot more confident. I guess the question at that point is, does Zappe look markedly more confident than year 1 Mac?

Again, to your point - too limited sample sizes - but that is I think one of the questions that should be asked in this hypothetical.

There are some simple things being needlessly worked over in this thread.


1. Jones has the stronger arm.
2. The Patriots were running different plays with Zappe than they were for Jones.
3. Zappe played bad teams, and still wet himself once he got into a catch up situation, so the whole "Zappe played well, except" has one hell of an "except" to it.


None of that really matters to the actual thread. None of that should be in question. And none of that is going to mean much come next season.

 

[venecol]

I mean, you can't honestly believe that Zappe doesn't have a noodle arm.
Mac Jones isn't Dan Marino, but Zappe was throwing lollipops out there. Usually accurate lollipops, but lollipops none the less.



Most QBs, this is a walk-in TD, not a circus catch.
Jones, probably, doesn't get enough depth on his drop, and either throws it out of the endzone or to the safety, but assuming he didn't, he lays that one right in there, that's stealing.

Huh? That's not what happened in that play. Zappe threw it to the pylon, away from the safety. Receiver was running to the inside and had to adjust once he saw the ball was going to the outside. Had they been on the same page, he would've walked it in because it had plenty of depth. It was obviously a miscommunication.

 

[JR52]

When Mac gets sacked because he did not throw the ball when the receiver was open. The OL is at fault

When Mac threw the ball to the Buffalo DB instead of Agahlor. Agahlor is at fault for not knocking ball out of the Bills DB hands. The risk of OPI was high, but still you're to blame.

When Mac has Parker open down the seam for a TD, but the ball hits Parker directly on top of his helmet. Parkers fault for not knowing that he was supposed to make a David Tyree catch only this time with his back to the ball.

On 3rd down or in the redzone, a play goes nowhere. Its the OC fault except if Zappe is playing because he is no good.

Exactly. You forgot randomly slide 2 yards short of the first because he has little awareness.

 

[Ian]

I mean, you can't honestly believe that Zappe doesn't have a noodle arm.

He doesn’t have a noodle arm. The gap between the two isn’t that far off, it’s just not stronger than Mac’s right now. He’s a bit of a stockier kid, so it should be interesting to see where he is by July.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Nah, their scheme and roster is predicted on having a QB that can consistently get rid of the ball with great zip. They went from Winston to Brady. Mac would not fit that team well. Vegas is the best place for Mac.

My recollection is that Brady did not do well in the Ariens offense initially. Too many turnovers. After a few rough games he called BS and started to force changes to the offense that got the team on a roll and into the super bowl. FWIW, this is an Ariens issue, not TB12.

 

[archstanton543]

My recollection is that Brady did not do well in the Ariens offense initially. Too many turnovers. After a few rough games he called BS and started to force changes to the offense that got the team on a roll and into the super bowl. FWIW, this is an Ariens issue, not TB12.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

My recollection is that Brady did not do well in the Ariens offense initially. Too many turnovers. After a few rough games he called BS and started to force changes to the offense that got the team on a roll and into the super bowl. FWIW, this is an Ariens issue, not TB12.

They still ran a lot of similar stuff though. Brady and Leftwich would create a gameplan but Arians would still overrite what they did a lot.

It goes beyond scheme though. Brady still has had to hit a good number of deep middle or inside the numbers routes with a lot of zip, to guys who are only open for short windows of time. And they have not had an effective running game. That would be a disaster for Mac Jones

 

[Triumph]

Exactly. You forgot randomly slide 2 yards short of the first because he has little awareness.

I have to wonder if Corky Jones went crying to Kraft about Patricia?

Kraft comments were that he wants BOB as OC to work with Jones and replace BB when that day arrives. Odd that Kraft would already decide that Jones is the NE QB in 2023. What if BB wants to bring Jimmy back or draft another QB?

 

[Tunescribe]

I have to wonder if Corky Jones went crying to Kraft about Patricia?

Kraft comments were that he wants BOB as OC to work with Jones and replace BB when that day arrives. Odd that Kraft would already decide that Jones is the NE QB in 2023. What if BB wants to bring Jimmy back or draft another QB?