Report: Bill wanted to trade Mac before season

[1960Pats]

Free Agency is in a little more than a month. They have the same scouting and personnel department. That's not a full rebuild, it's a half-measure. If you're going to blow it up, blow it up. Right now it's just PR. However at least now they've fired one guy and let another guy go.

We can only guess and mine is that Bill had such complete control over the football operation that it's going to take time for the Krafts to figure it all out. My biggest concern will be who's picking the players. That's a far more important job than a HC.

 

[venecol]

 

[TommyD4207]

We can only guess and mine is that Bill had such complete control over the football operation that it's going to take time for the Krafts to figure it all out. My biggest concern will be who's picking the players. That's a far more important job than a HC.

And the same people who have gathered that information previously, are the ones going to be in charge of it.

That's really not ok, if you're doing a rebuild.

 

[Tunescribe]

That's funny coming from a guy who wanted to have a separate forum for Brady talk and then bragged about going there to troll the fans.

I never once complained to anyone about Brady-oriented threads in the main forum. I never asked for a separate Brady forum so you can shove that B.S. I trolled the Tampa Bay thread's over-the-top Buccaneers worship, apologies if that tweaked your delicate sensibilities.

Let it go. Bill's gone and he's staying gone.

Let WHAT go? He deserves to be gone, I've said that at least a couple dozen times. But regardless of the mistakes he made with Brady and other mostly personnel-related missteps that snowballed near the end, BB still deserves acknowledgement and respect for what he accomplished here.

The shoes on the other foot now. Enjoy.

Ah, NOW we're on to something that REALLY needs "letting go" -- The Petulant Tampa Bay Ghetto Refugees Revenge Agenda. Very sad. But as someone famously said, "It is what it is." Striving to demonize the universally acknowledged GOAT NFL coach on his way out the door because you're terminally butthurt over Brady is just being childishly spiteful.

 

[Nikolai]

Ehhh....talking about the "why" of our dumpster fire season that perfectly encapsulates our spectacular decline from dynasty to basement is worthwhile, even just for catharsis. BB, Kraft, Mac, and Zappe are part of that discussion. I don't see what's controversial about that.

The media war was an inevitability, and shows that all was not well, as we all could have inferred. As with just about any divorce, there's blame to go around. Again, not controversial stuff...

You don't have to be an IBWTer to question the wisdom of the alleged intervention by Kraft. And you don't have to be a BB hater to wonder why Kraft may have started to panic as the aftermath of TB12 leaving unfolded.

These guys have big egos, are men of action, were at the center of unprecedented success, and are now apparently airing the laundry out of frustration that neither felt they had control of the boat as it went down. Again, not hard to understand.

 

[RIpats88]

It's almost as if he would have been explicitly told not to do that from his boss - because that would make an awful lot of sense - Roster Management for Dummies, stuff.

I mean Bill could've also had a plan for Brady leaving instead of cam newton, or a plan for josh mcdaniels leaving instead of Patricia/judge

or were all of those Mr. Kraft telling him no!!!!

I highly doubt Kraft told bill not to bring in a backup QB.

 

[RIpats88]

And the same people who have gathered that information previously, are the ones going to be in charge of it.

That's really not ok, if you're doing a rebuild.

Unless the guy making the decisions didn't listen to their information and chose separately. If they had separate draft boards/opinions which wouldv'e yielded better results and Bill throws it in the trash and decides to go with a kicker in the 4th round.

I don't know for sure that's what happened. but from Krafts moves and from what Curran said that is why alot of guys like caserio etc. booked it out of here. their opinions were not heard.

In your scenario either

a. these guys are horrible at their jobs and Bill is just going along for the ride making no decisions and really has no power over the football operation.

b. Bill is making the decisions and choosing poorly. which is it?

 

[VrabelJr]

Unfortunately for Team Bill loyalists, the report is from Wickersham, so it looks like you’ve spent a week discrediting and mocking a reporter you’ll now be celebrating. But such is the life of the PatsFans.com Team Bill Oath Taker.



Also a rumor Bill wanted Baker Mayfield.



Enjoy.

I’m a In BB We Trust person and didn’t have any issues with Wickersham’s reporting. I thought the hardcore people had issues with Curran and Reiss being fed from the Kraft’s directly and that conflict of interest.

This report just further shows BB was right about Jones. How can any Pats fan be feeling good about the team right now?

 

[condon84]

It was clear as day all season the owner meddled and forced Mac on Belichick.

It happened Bill. It will happen again with another HC.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Loyalist or not, “It’s Wickersham.” He sucks and I stand by my feelings about the guy. He should of been a erotic romance novelist. He’s in the wrong job. Could of made millions elsewhere.

 

[TommyD4207]

Unless the guy making the decisions didn't listen to their information and chose separately. If they had separate draft boards/opinions which wouldv'e yielded better results and Bill throws it in the trash and decides to go with a kicker in the 4th round.

I don't know for sure that's what happened. but from Krafts moves and from what Curran said that is why alot of guys like caserio etc. booked it out of here. their opinions were not heard.

In your scenario either

a. these guys are horrible at their jobs and Bill is just going along for the ride making no decisions and really has no power over the football operation.

b. Bill is making the decisions and choosing poorly. which is it?

So your position - after Kraft and Belichick both said, in front of microphones, more than once, the process has been more collaborative over the last few years - is that Bill Belichick rejected every player the scouting department put up? Is that really what you're going with?

 

[h0c2000]

PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

Old news to this place.

 

[Jlaff]

Bill looks like he's the scapegoat. This helps explain them agreeing to part ways.

Are you trying to highlight the Jewish angle here?

 

[RIpats88]

So your position - after Kraft and Belichick both said, in front of microphones, more than once, the process has been more collaborative over the last few years - is that Bill Belichick rejected every player the scouting department put up? Is that really what you're going with?

how else can you explain going with the same personnel people? and I don't take lip service to the media too much. I know you will discount it, but Curran/howe and others said Bill still was picking who he thought.

your position is that Bill was handed poor picks by the personnel people (where he would've made amazing ones had they not been collaborative) just signed off on it and is just being fired as a scape goat. If thats the case, it would be negligent to keep the same personnel people

im not sure which one is more believable or not believable. and honestly I don't know. we were told for years by fans that Bill is the GM, the decision maker. now since the team is hot garbage we are told he really didn't make the decisions. Juju, mac, every bad decision was never Bill.

Even though the picks he made really aren't out of norm of what he would normally do. defense first 3 rounds, trade up for a kicker. not taking offense until the 5th/6th..

 

[RIpats88]

hypothetically, say Bill trades Mac in the offseason. Does our season go much better with say Zappe or baker mayfield? given our roster, injuries etc. i give them maybe 2 more wins. so 6?

and say Mac goes to the raiders and has a bounce back year does this board melt down?

 

[TommyD4207]

how else can you explain going with the same personnel people?

Pretty easily. Bill Belichick *didn't* reject every single pick scouting and personnel sent his way.

Don't take my word for it. Don't take a reporter's word for it. Take Bob Kraft's word for it. The idea that Bill Belichick was the overlord holding the team back since, at *least* 2020 (when Kraft and Belichick *said* as much) is complete and utter copium.

 

[TommyD4207]

hypothetically, say Bill trades Mac in the offseason. Does our season go much better with say Zappe or baker mayfield? given our roster, injuries etc. i give them maybe 2 more wins. so 6?

and say Mac goes to the raiders and has a bounce back year does this board melt down?

With Zappe? No. With Baker Mayfield, it's probably a borderline playoff team until the injuries hit.

 

[TommyD4207]

how else can you explain going with the same personnel people? and I don't take lip service to the media too much. I know you will discount it, but Curran/howe and others said Bill still was picking who he thought.

your position is that Bill was handed poor picks by the personnel people (where he would've made amazing ones had they not been collaborative) just signed off on it and is just being fired as a scape goat. If thats the case, it would be negligent to keep the same personnel people

im not sure which one is more believable or not believable. and honestly I don't know. we were told for years by fans that Bill is the GM, the decision maker. now since the team is hot garbage we are told he really didn't make the decisions. Juju, mac, every bad decision was never Bill.

Even though the picks he made really aren't out of norm of what he would normally do. defense first 3 rounds, trade up for a kicker. not taking offense until the 5th/6th..

Ok so, there was a time - before 2020, and after 2004, when he WAS the GM, and DID make all the football decisions. Kraft *said* and Belichick *said* - not through reporters or messageboards or back channels, but *into microphones* that the process was going to be collaborative going forward. A change from how things were.

I mean, there's a camp that thinks firing Bill Belichick and only Bill Belichick makes the Patriots a Super Bowl contender again. That's not the camp I'm in. He wasn't the overlord, hasn't been for a long time. He was the fall guy.

Edit: It's completely malpractice that they're keeping the same personnel people. That's not going to stop Bob/Jonathan Kraft from doing it. They've made it very clear that the narrative they want out there, is everything was Bill Belichick's fault. Which, cool. Sounds an awful lot like 'Everything was Matt Patricia's fault' last year.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

It’s funny both Thunder and Bill think they’re protecting immortal legacies with this media war.

It might just be me, but when I look at Kraft, Thunder is not the nickname that comes to mind.

 

[upstater1]

how else can you explain going with the same personnel people? and I don't take lip service to the media too much. I know you will discount it, but Curran/howe and others said Bill still was picking who he thought.

your position is that Bill was handed poor picks by the personnel people (where he would've made amazing ones had they not been collaborative) just signed off on it and is just being fired as a scape goat. If thats the case, it would be negligent to keep the same personnel people

im not sure which one is more believable or not believable. and honestly I don't know. we were told for years by fans that Bill is the GM, the decision maker. now since the team is hot garbage we are told he really didn't make the decisions. Juju, mac, every bad decision was never Bill.

Even though the picks he made really aren't out of norm of what he would normally do. defense first 3 rounds, trade up for a kicker. not taking offense until the 5th/6th..

Cole Strange, Tyquan and Mac are offensive players. Taken early. Last 3 years, the Patriots used an equal amount of draft resources on offense and defense. There are Belichick picks on the team n doubt, like Cole Strange, Jake Andrews or Marte Mapu. But then there are a bunch of other guys for whom Belichick relies on scouting info. He can't do it all. He sees some of these guys firsthand, like the guys I mentioned. Keion White would be another one. I'm guessing he chose Gonzalez on recommendations just based on the draft behavior. It's a mix. Probably 50/50. He can't do it all. Remember, he even used to give Ernie some of his own choices later in the rounds. That's how we got Edelman.