Question on improving Mac's arm strength

[Simpelton]

Yes, we've talked about them understating his arm from day one. But there's a difference between "lacks a really strong arm" and "Has a weak arm".

One is Derek Carr. The other is Chad Pennington after his first shoulder injury.

Absolutely. Even a quick look around the league shows that his arm is below average for a starting QB. But, as I've been saying from the beginning, his arm doesn't have to be the strongest in the league. It just has to be strong enough to make all the throws. And, hopefully, with some focused offseason work, he'll get enough strength built up that people will really start to see that happen.

I will look forward in 4 years to you pretending you never wrote this

 

[jimnance]

Not really spreading it thin. Not having to study/prepare for a weekly opponent is a huge load off his back.
Brady worked his ass off every offseason but still had time to relax and have fun.
I mean any player at ANY position works hard in offseason. If they dont, theyre probably not a good player. But even more important for a QB. They just have a lot more on their plates.

 

[BigPeteG]

The execs remarks are anything but spot on.
Hes not saying anything we dont already know. But hes implying it will never change. Thats ridiculous.
More like it is what it isn't

I think you underestimate the task ahead of Mac. Josh Allen was throwing 80 yard bombs on his pro day - Mac was airing it out too - but for around 60 yards. I suspect that Josh's arm (guesstimate) is around 20% better then Mac. That is say Mac was a pitcher he would throw around 80-85 mph and Josh would throw around 100-105..

Now is it crazy to think that Mac would improve his arm strength? Not really. But its not an automatic either. You don't know how close Mac is to his potential right now - and thus how much he might improve. So maybe he just adds say 5% but its not really enough to open up the playbook.

I'd argue the opposite if Mac comes out there slinging the ball around with good zip and making all the throws. That would not be expected and would be a remarkable achievement. Remember it was Josh McDaniels that drafted Tim Tebow. And that guy is very hard working - and his throwing never improved. Not one iota.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think you underestimate the task ahead of Mac. Josh Allen was throwing 80 yard bombs on his pro day - Mac was airing it out too - but for around 60 yards. I suspect that Josh's arm (guesstimate) is around 20% better then Mac. That is say Mac was a pitcher he would throw around 80-85 mph and Josh would throw around 100-105..

Now is it crazy to think that Mac would improve his arm strength? Not really. But its not an automatic either. You don't know how close Mac is to his potential right now - and thus how much he might improve. So maybe he just adds say 5% but its not really enough to open up the playbook.

I'd argue the opposite if Mac comes out there slinging the ball around with good zip and making all the throws. That would not be expected and would be a remarkable achievement. Remember it was Josh McDaniels that drafted Tim Tebow. And that guy is very hard working - and his throwing never improved. Not one iota.

Like @BaconGrundleCandy explained throwing accuracy and strength are two different things. Tebow needed accuracy, Mac needs strength. You might read @BaconGrungleCandy's posts - they are very informative. Strength can be improved.

 

[jimnance]

I think you underestimate the task ahead of Mac. Josh Allen was throwing 80 yard bombs on his pro day - Mac was airing it out too - but for around 60 yards. I suspect that Josh's arm (guesstimate) is around 20% better then Mac. That is say Mac was a pitcher he would throw around 80-85 mph and Josh would throw around 100-105..

Now is it crazy to think that Mac would improve his arm strength? Not really. But its not an automatic either. You don't know how close Mac is to his potential right now - and thus how much he might improve. So maybe he just adds say 5% but its not really enough to open up the playbook.

I'd argue the opposite if Mac comes out there slinging the ball around with good zip and making all the throws. That would not be expected and would be a remarkable achievement. Remember it was Josh McDaniels that drafted Tim Tebow. And that guy is very hard working - and his throwing never improved. Not one iota.

Nobodys throwing 80yd bombs in a game.
What mac needs to improve on is throwing the intermediate throws with more zip less arc when necessary due to coverage and/or weather. Like Brady did.
It took Brady years to do that.
Are you seriously comparing Mac to Tebow? Lol No none of us know how much mac will improve. It will take 3-4 years more to know that. But I think hes shown that he will do whatever it takes to be his best. Will his best be more than say Tannehill? I dont know. Thats too far down the road. I expect to see overall improvement next year. Then a little more the year after.
Where it ends we'll just have to wait and see

 

[Toofy]

I hope he gets serious about it and works on it during the offseason. I think his footwork is pretty decent and he moves fine - he can even run for first downs on occasion (he is not a threat to take it the house like Allen or Jackson) - but ya know C tier. Like a Baker Mayfield. He has pretty good decision making.

But his arm strength is why he slipped and his #1 issue preventing him from being a star. If he had a rocket arm - he would have easily gone #1. And he would have played over those other guys at Alabama. To those who don't think he has a problem there - I ask you..

Which NFL QBs have weaker arms then Mac Jones? I want to know what you think. Maybe Hurts? Tua? I am at a loss.

Almost all of Mac's best throws were touch throws. We want to see out route lasers out of the guy. Seemed like he had more velocity in preseason - maybe his shoulder was hurt.

The good news is that arm strength can be improved. It is not impossible. He might not become Josh Allen or John Elway but if he can at least match Burrow or Watson - that's more then enough.

Why is arm strength difficult to gain. Isn't it same as exercising and growing your biceps or becoming more pliable.

Why can't you exercise and practice and Improve arm strength ? How can it be inborn ? Again, I am asking out of ignorance.

 

[Tunescribe]

there's a difference between "lacks a really strong arm" and "Has a weak arm".

Doesn't the former apply as well to Mac? I don't know how one objectively quantifies the difference or why that's even important, perhaps you can specify beyond personal impressions from "a quick look around the league." But for instance, Mac's average yards gained per pass attempted this season was 7.3 placing him 14th among active QBs (Brady in 2001 was 16th at 6.9 yards gained per attempt). It's hard to imagine someone with a "weak arm" passing for more than 3,800 yards in what essentially was 16 games while completing 68 percent of his passes. Yet, according to an anonymous "AFC exec" Mac Jones has a weak arm and you agree. "Lacks a really strong arm" might be a more accurate assessment.

 

[Deus Irae]

I will look forward in 4 years to you pretending you never wrote this

Why on Earth would I have to pretend I didn't write that?

 

[WhatJustHappened]

The Brady weak arm thing is, and always has been, inaccurate. And the executive's remarks are spot on, unless and until Jones' arm strength improves significantly enough that he can make all the throws, hopefully with power.


It is what it is.

That's funny, most draft profiles on Brady said "Accurate, Turtle Slow, Skinny, Lacking Arm strength etc..."
Was strong at reading the defense, and able to move in the pocket.
I don't even have to read that, I remember it personally, his arm was mediocre at best, but he was diligent in getting better and stronger, which he did.

Btw- The list of "Strong Arm Qbs that sucked" is long, they had other IMPORTANT deficiencies like- couldn't read a defense, bad footwork in the pocket, no touch(Common with big arm qbs), poor leaders etc...

My belief is Mac will get stronger, and work on everything he can to get better.
We'll see.

 

[BTTA]

From Kiper

Cons:​

• Lacks mobility
• Could have problems if forced to throw the football down the field
• Does not have the total package of skills for an NFL quarterback
• Ran a 5.24 40-yard dash
• Had a 24.5 inch vertical jump

It is to Brady's credit that he made his vertical a priority, which led directly to his success.

 

[BTTA]

Men generally reach peak strength between ages 25 and 28.
Jones is now in the hands of some of the best QB evaluators and trainers on the planet. So he'll be working on the arm strength, footwork, throwing mechanics.
He has demonstrated a remarkable work ethic.
It would be nearly impossible for him not to get stronger and be capable of more velocity come next year.

What Pats QB has shown more command and capability in his first year? In the entire history of the franchise?

 

[WhatJustHappened]

 

[Deus Irae]

That's funny, most draft profiles on Brady said "Accurate, Turtle Slow, Skinny, Lacking Arm strength etc..."
Was strong at reading the defense, and able to move in the pocket.
I don't even have to read that, I remember it personally, his arm was mediocre at best, but he was diligent in getting better and stronger, which he did.

Btw- The list of "Strong Arm Qbs that sucked" is long, they had other IMPORTANT deficiencies like- couldn't read a defense, bad footwork in the pocket, no touch(Common with big arm qbs), poor leaders etc...

My belief is Mac will get stronger, and work on everything he can to get better.
We'll see.

I'm still trying to figure out why "Mac's arm is less than average. Hopefully it'll get better. He just needs to be able to make all the throws." is so threatening to people around here.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm still trying to figure out why "Mac's arm is less than average. Hopefully it'll get better. He just needs to be able to make all the throws." is so threatening to people around here.

Not threatening to me. I thought that post was quite reasonable.

Your next post (below) about Tom "weak arm thing" being inaccurate seemed off the mark. Tom's arm strength coming out of college, rightly or wrongly, was questioned by many evaluators so I am not sure what you meant. When college scouting evaluations noting Tom's arm was weak were posted, it is not clear that you clarified your post, it seemed like you went into the Deus defense mode we are all very familiar with (yawn - boring).

The Brady weak arm thing is, and always has been, inaccurate. And the executive's remarks are spot on, unless and until Jones' arm strength improves significantly enough that he can make all the throws, hopefully with power.


It is what it is.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I'm still trying to figure out why "Mac's arm is less than average. Hopefully it'll get better. He just needs to be able to make all the throws." is so threatening to people around here.

I'm not threatened by it, I just want folks to realize that not every QB coming out has a Cannon, and can still be successful if they work at their craft.
Reading the defense B4 the snap, footwork in the pocket, touch, toughness, and LEADERSHIP are obviously VERY IMPORTANT.
TFB More than proved that, he took Drew's job, and Drew had a big Contract and a Big Arm...BB saw the difference.. and like I said, the list of Strong arm qbs that sucked is long.

I firmly believe that Mac will get stronger, work on mechanics, work on reading defenses etc, and be a very viable. Becoming a STUD is up to him.

BTW, he ran a 4.79, he's not gonna outrace a bunch of speedsters, but he has enough wheels to move if need be, he'll get better at that I'm sure.

We'll see, but I think he deserves a year or 2 to show improvement.

 

[BigPeteG]

Why is arm strength difficult to gain. Isn't it same as exercising and growing your biceps or becoming more pliable.

Why can't you exercise and practice and Improve arm strength ? How can it be inborn ? Again, I am asking out of ignorance.

When people talk about arm strength - they mean throwing velocity - which is a complicated kinetic chain of events starting from the ground and ending in internal shoulder rotation. All these muscles must be fired in a particular manner to elicit maximal velocity. When people talk about a big arm - they don't mean the arm is literally big. Just that the player can throw with velocity.

 

[Toofy]

When people talk about arm strength - they mean throwing velocity - which is a complicated kinetic chain of events starting from the ground and ending in internal shoulder rotation. All these muscles must be fired in a particular manner to elicit maximal velocity. When people talk about a big arm - they don't mean the arm is literally big. Just that the player can throw with velocity.

I get that . But can't that be improved by improving your core strength and pliability . So if my core muscles are strong and flexible through exercises and with repeated practices , won't my throwing power improve? I know I am making it sound simplistic , but isn't that the case?

 

[Deus Irae]

Your next post (below) about Tom "weak arm thing" being inaccurate seemed off the mark. Tom's arm strength coming out of college, rightly or wrongly, was questioned by many evaluators so I am not sure what you meant. When college scouting evaluations noting Tom's arm was weak were posted, it is not clear that you clarified your post, it seemed like you went into the Deus defense mode we are all very familiar with (yawn - boring).

???

Claims about Brady's arm weren't accurate. From the beginning, his arm was stronger than those who questioned it had claimed. And Brady won the distance competition of the QB challenge in 2003.

And the Brady comparison is brought up just about every time someone mentions Jones' arm strength, and has been talked over ad infinitum.

 

[BigPeteG]

Nobodys throwing 80yd bombs in a game.
What mac needs to improve on is throwing the intermediate throws with more zip less arc when necessary due to coverage and/or weather. Like Brady did.
It took Brady years to do that.
Are you seriously comparing Mac to Tebow? Lol No none of us know how much mac will improve. It will take 3-4 years more to know that. But I think hes shown that he will do whatever it takes to be his best. Will his best be more than say Tannehill? I dont know. Thats too far down the road. I expect to see overall improvement next year. Then a little more the year after.
Where it ends we'll just have to wait and see

The maximum distance the ball travels is related to the velocity it has when the ball leaves the hand and the launch angle. Josh wasn't making those throws because he needs to make them in the game - he was doing to prove he can create very high velocity throws.

And please stop with the revisionist history on Brady. Brady was a fantastic high school catcher with a terrific arm. He was drafted by the Expos and the believed he would have been fantastic - hitting both with power and having great ability to throw people out.

Brady had huge arm from day 1.

Tom Brady Best Throws | 2001-2020 | - YouTube

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Funny, I never saw that, there was plenty of hang time in his younger years(which btw is touch when it's needed).
I guess people that watch all the College tape and are evaluators are stupid.
I did NOT see a Huge arm at all in his early years, he got stronger as he worked on his legs/core/shoulder/mechanics/footwork.
He even mentioned working on these things over the years.

People are asking Why folks are getting fussed about them questioning Mac's arm, why are other people getting fussed about folks discussing TFB's arm when he came up?

I love what Tom did here, he's a Hero, but that doesn't change anything.