Question for Aqua4Ever04

[Aqua4Ever04]

I don't know if this has already been posted becaue I don't feel like reading through this whole thread right now but when people are making arguments against the Pats they keep saying they "lost" McGuinest. They didn't lose him. That implies that they really wanted to keep him and made a big effort to do so but for one reason or another they weren't able to. This isn't the case. The Pats cut him. They made absolutely no effort to keep him. Willie went on record saying he was somewhat confused because the Pats did not contact him at all. The Pats would not have shoved him out the door if they were at all worried about who would play his position or the hole he would leave on the team.

Well maybe you should have read through it because it has been beaten to death.

 

[zippo59]

Well maybe you should have read through it because it has been beaten to death.

That's fine. As long as the point is made.

 

[Keegs]

I don't know if this has already been posted becaue I don't feel like reading through this whole thread right now but when people are making arguments against the Pats they keep saying they "lost" McGuinest. They didn't lose him. That implies that they really wanted to keep him and made a big effort to do so but for one reason or another they weren't able to. This isn't the case. The Pats cut him. They made absolutely no effort to keep him. Willie went on record saying he was somewhat confused because the Pats did not contact him at all. The Pats would not have shoved him out the door if they were at all worried about who would play his position or the hole he would leave on the team.

good point. I'm one of the people on here that really does not think that his loss will hurt this team that much. Yeah he had 4.5 sacks against the jags, but thats a once in a lifetime thing. He had to go sometime. Unless im mistaken, he is 35 right now. I love willie and some of my best pats memories involve willie but it was his time to go. I loved Chris Slade too, but that doesn't mean i want to see him running around the the field gettin his ass kicked in his 40s.

 

[Kdo5]

Bold = Aqua4Ever

But first, have you been under a rock this off-season? Do you not know who the Pats have lost? A huge peice of that front 7 is gone, your most clutch playoff performer at WR is gone and your big time kicker is gone. Those 3 were all HUGE peices of your sucsess over the years. Who did you add in the off-season? And don't tell me Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney because they both will be very good players, but won't do a whole lot this year. You guys are just so hard headed, you don't care to look at how huge those 3 losses are. You also lost one of your staples on the Oline in Tom Ashworth as well. Oh and I almost forgot, Dieon Branch is holding out, let me know how that turns out.

Lol, you act like you know anything about the Patriots. You just seem to repeat what the analysts and haters say. You dont know anything about the Offensive line and I dont know how you could call Ashworth the staple of our offensive line. Matt Light is one of the best lineman we have, two rookies started, Hochstein and Koppen start too. So there you have it five good lineman. Willie is a great loss but when Rosevelt Colvin is the backup I wouldnt breakdown and act like the worlds over. Our D-Line is younger and far far better than yours, your linebacking core is not even close to better than Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin, give me a freaking break. We have one hole to fill which we problably will fit Beisel in and I'm sure he wont be a faliure playing with some of the elite linebackers in the NFL. You act like someone who studies the Patriots week in and week out and act like you know all about the Pats, yet you spell Deion Branch's name in a ridiculous fashion.

There were 3 or 4 other games that we lost that we very easily could have won. For example, our first game against you which I already explained.

Then why didnt they if it was so easy? Oh yeah that reminds me of the 2003 world champions DVD when the Fins RB coach said, "cmon this gonna be easy" and Ricky Williams got stuffed.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Aqua makes some good points. You'd have to be naive to think our losses won't hurt us. But this is 2006, and not 2005, and there are several big differences.

1) We have a way easier schedule. I believe the 7th easiest, as opposed to the 3rd toughest last year, and 7th toughest the year before. Both seasons we had more injuries than anyone, and we won 1 championship, not bad.

2) There is no guaranties, but we should be getting some of our key players back from injuries, and hopefully we don't lead the league in injuries.

3) Brady should only be better this year, he will have a better running game, no matter what (healthier line also). If Dillon can't do it, at least we have a better alternative that Heath Evans in Maroney.

4) Vrabel back to OLB, he's a better weapon from OLB, and a full season of Bruschi, and an improved Beisel, behind a good young front 3.

5) Better special teams (coverage wise)-With the additions of Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones, the special teams should be better in coverage.

I agree the losses of Givens & Vinitiari are big, but all indications are that Caldwell & Jackson are clicking with Brady, so the loss of Givens may not hurt too much. Vinitiari may be the most clutch kicker in the history of football, but remember, he was a rookie at one time, and now we have Gostkowski. We may suffer in the early part, but also all indications are that Gostkowski has a good accurate leg. We shall see.

I think the Dolphins will be very improved, and give the Pats a big challenge, but I think it may be a year or two before they win the division.

 

[pats1]

Aqua makes some good points. You'd have to be naive to think our losses won't hurt us. But this is 2006, and not 2005, and there are several big differences.

1) We have a way easier schedule. I believe the 7th easiest, as opposed to the 3rd toughest last year, and 7th toughest the year before. Both seasons we had more injuries than anyone, and we won 1 championship, not bad.

2) There is no guaranties, but we should be getting some of our key players back from injuries, and hopefully we don't lead the league in injuries.

3) Brady should only be better this year, he will have a better running game, no matter what (healthier line also). If Dillon can't do it, at least we have a better alternative that Heath Evans in Maroney.

4) Vrabel back to OLB, he's a better weapon from OLB, and a full season of Bruschi, and an improved Beisel, behind a good young front 3.

5) Better special teams (coverage wise)-With the additions of Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones, the special teams should be better in coverage.

I agree the losses of Givens & Vinitiari are big, but all indications are that Caldwell & Jackson are clicking with Brady, so the loss of Givens may not hurt too much. Vinitiari may be the most clutch kicker in the history of football, but remember, he was a rookie at one time, and now we have Gostkowski. We may suffer in the early part, but also all indications are that Gostkowski has a good accurate leg. We shall see.

I think the Dolphins will be very improved, and give the Pats a big challenge, but I think it may be a year or two before they win the division.

The biggest things are the improved running game and special teams. That's what really killed us in Denver. We kept getting backed up on our goalline, unable to do a thing on the ground with Corey hurt, opening up Brady to the blitz behind an injury-rattled OL. With a healthy Dillon and Maroney in the backfield, it brings us back to 2004 where we can pound it away with the run, opening up the play action while tiring the opposing defense. The loss of Givens is offset by the revived running game, Chad Jackson, and a progressing Watson.

 

[texpat]

Even if you wanted to spin it that way, I could say we (re)gained TWO STAPLES in Light and Koppen. Add in Neal, Gorin, Kaczur, and Mankins, and Ashworth should barely be considered a loss.

"

What happens if Light & Koppen don't come back, or play in less than half the games? And what happens if a Neal &/or a Gorin go down?

IS the OL still a strength??

I think fans that assume that Light & Koppen step right back in without missing a beat might be in for a rude surprise.

 

[Kdo5]

We did just get two offensive lineman in the draft, and usually most of them turn out to be good, so I have nothing to worry about the O-line and its most likely that Light should be good to return and maybe Koppen as well.

 

[TruthSeeker]

What happens if Light & Koppen don't come back, or play in less than half the games? And what happens if a Neal &/or a Gorin go down?

IS the OL still a strength??

I think fans that assume that Light & Koppen step right back in without missing a beat might be in for a rude surprise.

I think Light is almost a guarantee to come back, he was at all the minicamps. Koppen might be a different story, but Hochstein filled in pretty well at center. We also drafted 2 linemen, and Wesley Britt is a talented backup as well. I think the line is indeed a strength. Kaczur and Mankins going into their second seasons, with Mankins getting rave reviews and Kaczur getting good reviews. If Light & Koppen can't play well, and Neal & Gorin get hurt, then I don't think there is a team in the NFL who has the depth to cover that, let alone the Pats.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Aqua makes some good points. You'd have to be naive to think our losses won't hurt us. But this is 2006, and not 2005, and there are several big differences.

1) We have a way easier schedule. I believe the 7th easiest, as opposed to the 3rd toughest last year, and 7th toughest the year before. Both seasons we had more injuries than anyone, and we won 1 championship, not bad.

2) There is no guaranties, but we should be getting some of our key players back from injuries, and hopefully we don't lead the league in injuries.

3) Brady should only be better this year, he will have a better running game, no matter what (healthier line also). If Dillon can't do it, at least we have a better alternative that Heath Evans in Maroney.

4) Vrabel back to OLB, he's a better weapon from OLB, and a full season of Bruschi, and an improved Beisel, behind a good young front 3.

5) Better special teams (coverage wise)-With the additions of Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones, the special teams should be better in coverage.

I agree the losses of Givens & Vinitiari are big, but all indications are that Caldwell & Jackson are clicking with Brady, so the loss of Givens may not hurt too much. Vinitiari may be the most clutch kicker in the history of football, but remember, he was a rookie at one time, and now we have Gostkowski. We may suffer in the early part, but also all indications are that Gostkowski has a good accurate leg. We shall see.

I think the Dolphins will be very improved, and give the Pats a big challenge, but I think it may be a year or two before they win the division.

Thanks Scott, good post. But the part I underlined I'm going to have to disagree with you.

I don't really understand it when people say the Fins are a year or 2 away. This is the team that will be competitive right away. We have the places in peice and waiting a couple of years just makes us older. I don't know, I guess I just don't see how you can say they are not going to contend THIS YEAR. Can you explain why you think that?

 

[Kdo5]

Ofcourse, if anybody hints that the Dolphins might not win this year, Aqua4Ever will be all over it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Since you guys probably aren't smart enough to scroll over to another thread to read my view, I'll post it here too.

A fan of another team throwing insults at pats fans. Well, thank you for taking the gloves off. You will be treated as you deserve.

But first, have you been under a rock this off-season? Do you not know who the Pats have lost? A huge peice of that front 7 is gone, your most clutch playoff performer at WR is gone and your big time kicker is gone. Those 3 were all HUGE peices of your sucsess over the years. Who did you add in the off-season? And don't tell me Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney because they both will be very good players, but won't do a whole lot this year. You guys are just so hard headed, you don't care to look at how huge those 3 losses are. You also lost one of your staples on the Oline in Tom Ashworth as well. Oh and I almost forgot, Dieon Branch is holding out, let me know how that turns out.

The Patriots fans know better than you what we have lost. A 34 yr old LB who disappeared for much of the 1st half of the season. A 33 year old kicker whose kick-offs had fallen to a tad over 60 yards and who hadn't been able to hit a 50 yarder in 3 years AND who blew a critical kick in a play-off game last year. A 25 year old WR who thinks of himself as a #1 WR but disappeared for a good portion of the season.

The Pats don't need Maroney and Jackson to do a whole lot next year. What you don't understand is that Dillon played the entire year injured. What you also don't understand is that the Pats O-line had 2 rookies starting for much of the year and had a replacement center for the last 7 games.

As for losing Ashworth, he was a good back-up tackle and spot starter. However, he's had injury issues and he didn't win back his starting job last year from Brandon Gorin, who isn't a great RT.

Now, about Deion Branch. The last I looked it was MINI CAMP in June. The Pats and he will come to an agreement. Branch really has no bargaining power as he only hurts himself by not being in camp and not playing out his contract.

Well here's my reply to THEARCHIVES or the moron who doesn't understand anything other than the New England Patriots.

People don't care about a 6 game winning streak? When this team was 1 bad fumble from winning the division. People do take notice of stuff like that just not you because all you know is Patriots football. Do yourself and everyone else a favor, and open your eyes to the rest of the NFL. You're the one who is delusional you giant d***** bag!

Lets get a couple of things straight. Had Miami won the 1st game, they would have LOST the 2nd game because the Pats wouldn't have taken out their starters in the final game. That's a guaranteed fact. So, you BS speculation shows that YOU are the know who is delusional.

And you call my argument dumb lol. We got lucky against San Diego? Umm ok?? If we got lucky in that game, then you got very lucky the first time you played us. If not for that McMichael fumble late in the first half, we would have liekly been up 14-0 or at worst 10-0 heading into the locker rooms. But instead you guys got a field goal out of it making it a 7-3 contest. You guys won by 7 when we failed to punch it in deep in the red zone. You wanna talk about getting lucky? Look at that game my friend, which essentially was the difference in who won the division.

Yes, your argument is dumb because you insist on looking at the situation in a vacuum. Your speculation about both games proves that you are inept and are more of a homer than you claim Pats fans to be.

As for your "gift" at the end of the season. The Dolphins were beating up on your starters pretty good too as I recall. Then BB pulled them out, and don't you think that maybe took just a little bit out of the Fins sails?

Then you recall incorrectly because the score was tied 7-7 when the Pats starters came out of the game. And this stupidity that it took something out of the phins sails when BB pulled the starters shows you have never played a sport in your life. When a team pulls its starters like that, its usually a slap in the face. This is the same argument that some dumb Phin fan made on the Pats ESPN board. Are you that same dumb phin fan?

You say how close our ball games were during that 6 game streak but think about this. There were 3 or 4 other games that we lost that we very easily could have won. For example, our first game against you which I already explained. Our first game against Buffalo, Frerotte had 2 INTs in the Buffalo end zone and Ronnie Brown fumbled in the red zone with under a minute to go down by 6. Thirdly, the game against Atlanta, Frerotte had 2 more turnovers in the red zone. The second one came at the Falcons 5 yard line with a minute to go trailing by 7. So with Culpepper, those 3 games are without a doubt wins!

*ROFLMAO* You claim Pats fans don't watch football? You obviously have not watched Culpepper play. If you had, your wouldn't be posting your BS.

So don't tell me my argument is dumb because the Fins are a vastly improved team and will kick the s*** out of the Pats two times this year and run away with the AFC East. You guys just don't see anything other New England Patriots football and it really scews your vision on the rest of the league/division. If you think the Fins are another year away, you're a moron!

I will tell you that your argument is dumb because the Phins are NOT that much of an improved team. Not to mention that your best RB is out for the season and there is not telling how the team will act if Culpepper isn't ready to go when the season starts and you have to rely on Joey Harrington to be your starter.

On a different note, rumor has it that the Phins are switching to a 3-4. Who is going to be your NT? Do you really think that Jason Taylor is going to be as effective standing up as he was in a 3 point stance? What about your secondary? Totally new there. You think that they are going to just click from day one?

It would seem to me, Aquafever, that you are the one whose expectations are unrealistic and who truly has no concept outside of Phins football.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know if this has already been posted becaue I don't feel like reading through this whole thread right now but when people are making arguments against the Pats they keep saying they "lost" McGuinest. They didn't lose him. That implies that they really wanted to keep him and made a big effort to do so but for one reason or another they weren't able to. This isn't the case. The Pats cut him. They made absolutely no effort to keep him. Willie went on record saying he was somewhat confused because the Pats did not contact him at all. The Pats would not have shoved him out the door if they were at all worried about who would play his position or the hole he would leave on the team.

Zippo -
Just a quick correction. The Patriots DID make an effort to re-negotiate McGinest's contract prior to them cutting him. So, your statement to the contrary is false. Also, it was found that McGinest wasn't being truthful with his statements as the Patriots had, in fact, contacted him on numerous occasions both before and after he was cut.

 

[DaBruinz]

What happens if Light & Koppen don't come back, or play in less than half the games? And what happens if a Neal &/or a Gorin go down?

IS the OL still a strength??

I think fans that assume that Light & Koppen step right back in without missing a beat might be in for a rude surprise.

Light participated in the mini-camp. I believe that Koppen was there, but I don't know if he participated. Light's prognosis is to be in training camp, ready to go. At worst, he gets shifted to RT wit Kaczur at LT.

Koppen is a different issue entirely. There was word that he was still having issues, but I haven't heard anything recently.

 

[nescott]

The guy is smoking the same stuff as Williams, Sullivan will never Play a down with us and as for the record, again smoking the stuff as all fish fans do this time of year with the heat in Miami getting to their brains thinking they can over take the Pats well take a shower you will discover that your team is med core and lucky to get 9-7.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Thanks Scott, good post. But the part I underlined I'm going to have to disagree with you.

I don't really understand it when people say the Fins are a year or 2 away. This is the team that will be competitive right away. We have the places in peice and waiting a couple of years just makes us older. I don't know, I guess I just don't see how you can say they are not going to contend THIS YEAR. Can you explain why you think that?

Aqua,

I think if you look at the Pats Vs Fins, position by position, they are still stronger than the Fins, and will still win the division once again. The Fins are getting close, but the Pats still have the edge

QB-Not even close, Brady is either the best, or second best QB in the NFL depending on who you ask. Culpepper was good when he had Moss, didn't fare so well without him. He's a good QB, but not in Brady's league.

RB-Young Ronnie Brown is a hell of a prospect, but despite Dillon's down year, Dillon still get's the edge, as well as I'd rather have Maroney over any backup that the Fins have (Sammy Morris, etc).

WR-I'd say Branch and Chambers are a wash, but Marty Booker is better than any of our #2 choices. Overall I'd give the Fins a slight edge in the WR dept.

TE-McMichael is probably better than any of our TE's, but as an overall unit, I'd say the Pats are better.

OLine-I'd say that you'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks the Fins OLine is better than the Pats OLine. I think we have a decent edge in this dept.

DLine-The Pats young DLine is one of the best in the league. Seymour and Wilfork are considered in the top echelon of their positions. Wilfork is considered one of the top NT's in the league, and Seymour is even more highly thought of. Ty Warren is still young, and very underated. The Fins have a good DLine, but the Pats line is it's defensive strength.

LB's- I always liked Zach Thomas, and though he was slowed by injuries, he is still one of the best, and has the nod over Bruschi(my favorite Patriot). Crowder looks to be a fine young LB, but not in Vrabel's league just yet. LB might be too close to call.

DB's- Without Rodney, I think the edge definately goes to the Fins in this category.

Special Teams-The Pats and Fins aren't know for great speacial teams, I'd rate them pretty even, though we have a rookie kicker.

Overall, I think the Pats are still the better team, and depending on how draft choices progress, and who both teams draft next year, I think the Pats have at least another year or two on top. It'll be very close. The Pats will be better than last year (barring the usual injury bug) due to a way easier schedule, and the Fins should definately be better (especially at QB), but like I said, barring freakish injuries to key players, I'd be suprised if the Pats don't win 12, and be a little suprised if the Fins win more than 10.

 

[sieglo]

Aqua,

I think if you look at the Pats Vs Fins, position by position, they are still stronger than the Fins, and will still win the division once again. The Fins are getting close, but the Pats still have the edge

QB-Not even close, Brady is either the best, or second best QB in the NFL depending on who you ask. Culpepper was good when he had Moss, didn't fare so well without him. He's a good QB, but not in Brady's league.

RB-Young Ronnie Brown is a hell of a prospect, but despite Dillon's down year, Dillon still get's the edge, as well as I'd rather have Maroney over any backup that the Fins have (Sammy Morris, etc).

WR-I'd say Branch and Chambers are a wash, but Marty Booker is better than any of our #2 choices. Overall I'd give the Fins a slight edge in the WR dept.

TE-McMichael is probably better than any of our TE's, but as an overall unit, I'd say the Pats are better.

OLine-I'd say that you'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks the Fins OLine is better than the Pats OLine. I think we have a decent edge in this dept.

DLine-The Pats young DLine is one of the best in the league. Seymour and Wilfork are considered in the top echelon of their positions. Wilfork is considered one of the top NT's in the league, and Seymour is even more highly thought of. Ty Warren is still young, and very underated. The Fins have a good DLine, but the Pats line is it's defensive strength.

LB's- I always liked Zach Thomas, and though he was slowed by injuries, he is still one of the best, and has the nod over Bruschi(my favorite Patriot). Crowder looks to be a fine young LB, but not in Vrabel's league just yet. LB might be too close to call.

DB's- Without Rodney, I think the edge definately goes to the Fins in this category.

Special Teams-The Pats and Fins aren't know for great speacial teams, I'd rate them pretty even, though we have a rookie kicker.

Overall, I think the Pats are still the better team, and depending on how draft choices progress, and who both teams draft next year, I think the Pats have at least another year or two on top. It'll be very close. The Pats will be better than last year (barring the usual injury bug) due to a way easier schedule, and the Fins should definately be better (especially at QB), but like I said, barring freakish injuries to key players, I'd be suprised if the Pats don't win 12, and be a little suprised if the Fins win more than 10.

You forgot to mention coaching. We have BB. Nuff said.

 

[mgcolby]

Light participated in the mini-camp. I believe that Koppen was there, but I don't know if he participated. Light's prognosis is to be in training camp, ready to go. At worst, he gets shifted to RT wit Kaczur at LT.

Koppen is a different issue entirely. There was word that he was still having issues, but I haven't heard anything recently.

I don't think Koppen participated in Mini-camp, I believe he was one the names listed as not on the field by Reiss each practice.

 

[pats1]

I don't think Koppen participated in Mini-camp, I believe he was one the names listed as not on the field by Reiss each practice.

That's correct.

 

[Underoath]

i don't understand why aqua4ever is posting in a Patriots forum to begin with, if you want to discuss how good the dolphins are, go find a dolphins forum, where people will agree with you...if you get annoyed by us getting mad at you, then leave...