Question About the Screen Play

[PatsBoy12]

No, I don't mean Good Will Hunting 2.

Seriously . . . I have watched quite a few Saints games this season because I was interested in what the turnaround was for them. In so doing, I realized that they are great at running the screen plays to their backs. NE hasn't been as consistently efficient with that play in recent seasons and again this season after it was a staple in the early SB runs. My question is why? To those who understand in some depth what makes a screen work, please educate those of us who may be interested to know. We have Dion Lewis (who was great at it in 2015), James White, Rex Burkhead. All three are very capable receivers. We have athletic OL guys who can get out in space all across the board, especially on the right side when Cannon was healthy. Those would appear to be the key ingredients. Why does it seem we aren't as good at it as we've been before?

 

[Fixit]

To my untrained eye, it appears that the lead blockers need to be more consistent in putting a helmet on the nearest defender instead of running ahead to blow someone up downfield. Several times I've seen the lead blockers just run past the guy who ends up making the tackle.

 

[The Brandon Five]

No, I don't mean Good Will Hunting 2.

Seriously . . . I have watched quite a few Saints games this season because I was interested in what the turnaround was for them. In so doing, I realized that they are great at running the screen plays to their backs. NE hasn't been as consistently efficient with that play in recent seasons and again this season after it was a staple in the early SB runs. My question is why? To those who understand in some depth what makes a screen work, please educate those of us who may be interested to know. We have Dion Lewis (who was great at it in 2015), James White, Rex Burkhead. All three are very capable receivers. We have athletic OL guys who can get out in space all across the board, especially on the right side when Cannon was healthy. Those would appear to be the key ingredients. Why does it seem we aren't as good at it as we've been before?

Dion scored s TD on a screen this Sunday.

 

[luuked]

Dion scored s TD on a screen this Sunday.

First successful screen of the year.

Loyko is speculating that there is a tell that other teams are keying in on to blow them up so consistently. He further speculated that Josh will abuse that in the playoffs. But that’s conspiracy theory level stuff.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think this is just a difference in preference either between Charlie and Josh or maybe something that's changed through the years as the game evolves.

I think it likely has something to do with getting these guys the ball in space rather than needing blockers.

 

[zoostation]

First successful screen of the year.

He further speculated that Josh will abuse that in the playoffs. But that’s conspiracy theory level stuff.

Unless your in the meetings with Josh and Bill the answers to this type of question are all theories. And the great news is most folks on this board have opinions and theories. I think its a valid question and this response makes as much sense as anything else.

Also, in my opinion recently it seems like the bulk off the recent screen plays have been safety valves (3rd and very long pinned and trying to pick up 1/2 or more of the yards to be in a better position to punt). Back in the Faulk days the Pats ran screens on first and second downs when the yards to go were favorable. Another words it wasn't used exclusively to get out of a hole.

My theory is the short crossing patterns, crisp timing, and precise routs executed by the current squad (Cooks,Hogan,Dorsett,Dola,Gronk, White) combined with the goat at QB make the odds of those plays picking up 7 or more yards an equal or higher percentage than if they ran a screen. But who knows. I do miss the screen play and expect to see it used more in the tournament.

 

[luuked]

Unless your in the meetings with Josh and Bill the answers to this type of question are all theories. And the great news is most folks on this board have opinions and theories. I think its a valid question and this response makes as much sense as anything else.

Also, in my opinion recently it seems like the bulk off the recent screen plays have been safety valves (3rd and very long pinned and trying to pick up 1/2 or more of the yards to be in a better position to punt). Back in the Faulk days the Pats ran screens on first and second downs when the yards to go were favorable. Another words it wasn't used exclusively to get out of a hole.

My theory is the short crossing patterns, crisp timing, and precise routs executed by the current squad (Cooks,Hogan,Dorsett,Dola,Gronk, White) combined with the goat at QB make the odds of those plays picking up 7 or more yards an equal or higher percentage than if they ran a screen. But who knows. I do miss the screen play and expect to see it used more in the tournament.

Yes sure. It is just that even under Josh we had been running screens considerably more successfully in the past. This year has really been an abomination when it comes to that aspect of the offense. Something is up.. but as you are saying, no clue what without being a fly on the wall.

 

[pherein]

No, I don't mean Good Will Hunting 2.

Seriously . . . I have watched quite a few Saints games this season because I was interested in what the turnaround was for them. In so doing, I realized that they are great at running the screen plays to their backs. NE hasn't been as consistently efficient with that play in recent seasons and again this season after it was a staple in the early SB runs. My question is why? To those who understand in some depth what makes a screen work, please educate those of us who may be interested to know. We have Dion Lewis (who was great at it in 2015), James White, Rex Burkhead. All three are very capable receivers. We have athletic OL guys who can get out in space all across the board, especially on the right side when Cannon was healthy. Those would appear to be the key ingredients. Why does it seem we aren't as good at it as we've been before?

Agree with Fixit to not run past the block. If OL leaves gaps LB's or SS can cut into the screen. Even a great OL that is very athletic can try to brute force the screen blocking too far ahead opening gaps.

Kind of depends on what screen type is run, I know we run a lot of completely different screen types changing blocking angles depending on how the play unfolds.

Like the Ones used in the SB with RB PT or against good defensive lines, and with Kamara in the TB game.

The screen is used to allow the DL to push back the OL making them think they are successfully breaking the pocket. The LT and WR post pattern left to create time. The OG’s and center do fallback failing blocks 2-5 yards back and then sprint forward and to the left to pocket cover kamara and block down field, pulling the DL away from the screen and making them useless.

This would be used against the Eagles if they kept setting the edge on run screens to confuse. It makes the DL think twice about only trying to break the pocket next time or setting the edge, because the same play as a fake would leave 1-1 coverage on LTE and 2 WRs running slants and post to the right.



Bad TB screen 0:50 No discipline, OL breaks early forward and right opening gaps.

Bad TB screen 1:54 OL runs to far L, and missed block.

scrren kamara 2:11

scrren kamara 2:54





toss screen Kamara 0:33 give distance using speed, OL shift L block, TE cover LB

screen Kamara 5:05 RTE, WR block out, OL push DL north at the base and forward toward the edge to open gaps, usually means the DL would have covered edge, so the new job know is to open holes by using the DL better momentum against them



screen Kamara 3:00 OL push pocket forward to create distance then break right and down field to cover blocks.

screen Kamara 4:11 TE goes out to block ROL push forward, WR’s lined up on L


0:04 Ingram screen you can see the OL and TE are already set downfield blocking.



Im looking over the Pats screens. We think this shows a real commitment to screening the ball as a staple play of the offense. Many of different types of screens to cover different looks and game plans. For this, to work the OL has to know its 5-10 yard blocking assignments to let it evolve as planned and trained to change blocking if they see it is falling apart.

To me the screen is the OL, and they have to be very well trained and able to move as a swarm or break off to create havoc downfield opening holes, but never stop. Even just standing so the D has to go around you, but you made it downfield is a block, and by not blocking you can not get a holding call but it stops the tackle. Some OL do this in the vids. Basically go prone but dont move from there asigned spot.

Most teams I see screening do simple toss, or brute gain the edge. Pretty much at the mercy of if the DL is better, LB’s are faster. Do not think you can teach elaborate screens even mid season, seems like a training camp thing to me as I watched the NO OL going over the blocking, over and over and over. But I do think screening is becoming much more important to open the up the middle runs.

Pats definitely have the OL and backfield for this. I just dont think its a staple play right now for Josh like it is for SP. Not crazy about posting saints vids here, but I'm looking over Pats screens next. not sure if this helps, but hope so

I do have a theory that the screenplay is the most exhausting play for the OL, which is why it's not used more.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

One thing Ive noticed this year is we're failing when trying a fake and then a screen.

 

[raduray]

Dion scored s TD on a screen this Sunday.

This is a good thread topic. But to the specific comment above, did anyone else notice Nate Solder's awesome effort on that play? After his initial block on the line, he ran downfield and took out two potential tacklers, giving Dion a lane to the end zone.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I don't mean Good Will Hunting 2.

Seriously . . . I have watched quite a few Saints games this season because I was interested in what the turnaround was for them. In so doing, I realized that they are great at running the screen plays to their backs. NE hasn't been as consistently efficient with that play in recent seasons and again this season after it was a staple in the early SB runs. My question is why? To those who understand in some depth what makes a screen work, please educate those of us who may be interested to know. We have Dion Lewis (who was great at it in 2015), James White, Rex Burkhead. All three are very capable receivers. We have athletic OL guys who can get out in space all across the board, especially on the right side when Cannon was healthy. Those would appear to be the key ingredients. Why does it seem we aren't as good at it as we've been before?

It isn’t so much about the back being a good receiver.
The idea of the screen is to allow the DL to get into the backfield and after the QB. The qb retreats and then dumps the ball over the DL to the rb.
The OL after letting the dL through now gets in front of the rb and leads him down the field.
So the OL is the real key to the play both in sucking in the dL to not know they were intentionally not blocked and to get out in front of the runner. Then the runners open field ability is key.

That is your basic screen. There are other versions that use deception and counter action, we have a fake reverse screen pass or slip screens to WRs as well.

 

[Ring 6]

First successful screen of the year.

Loyko is speculating that there is a tell that other teams are keying in on to blow them up so consistently. He further speculated that Josh will abuse that in the playoffs. But that’s conspiracy theory level stuff.

If there is a tell it’s probably coming from the ol

 

[pherein]

It isn’t so much about the back being a good receiver.
The idea of the screen is to allow the DL to get into the backfield and after the QB. The qb retreats and then dumps the ball over the DL to the rb.
The OL after letting the dL through now gets in front of the rb and leads him down the field.
So the OL is the real key to the play both in sucking in the dL to not know they were intentionally not blocked and to get out in front of the runner. Then the runners open field ability is key.

That is your basic screen. There are other versions that use deception and counter action, we have a fake reverse screen pass or slip screens to WRs as well.

Yeah Andy, it's a very deceptive play usually used to open a failing pass or run offense or if they cant stop it. To pull, exhaust, confuse or circumvent a really good DL or DS.
If your screens are successful drawing in a great DL, but tricked, then they start to question trying so hard to sack the QB, because you played with them before, and start making mistakes when you line up the same, but they try to stop it, but its a fake right pass and 1-1.
DS seeing the same OL run up to the screen to not get burned and get out of position, but its a fake so 1-1 for short or med gain or worse a soft belly run up the middle.
I think it hurts so much when you can have a lot of plays and just burn a defense 1-2x because then they dont know what to cover. And to fake the DL to think they are getting a sack , breaking the OL, like Andy said is key, that really pisses off a good DL, exhaust them, and confuses. Next up the middle run they are tired and not sure what you're going to do.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah Andy, it's a very deceptive play usually used to open a failing pass or run offense or if they cant stop it. To pull, exhaust, confuse or circumvent a really good DL or DS.
If your screens are successful drawing in a great DL, but tricked, then they start to question trying so hard to sack the QB, because you played with them before, and start making mistakes when you line up the same, but they try to stop it, but its a fake right pass and 1-1.
DS seeing the same OL run up to the screen to not get burned and get out of position, but its a fake so 1-1 for short or med gain or worse a soft belly run up the middle.
I think it hurts so much when you can have a lot of plays and just burn a defense 1-2x because then they dont know what to cover. And to fake the DL to think they are getting a sack , breaking the OL, like Andy said is key, that really pisses off a good DL, exhaust them, and confuses. Next up the middle run they are tired and not sure what you're going to do.

I’m sorry I can’t make any sense out of what you are trying to say here.

 

[pherein]

I’m sorry I can’t make any sense out of what you are trying to say here.

hmm sorry wonder why, you don't have enough time to pass or think because the DL is so good and you can't run right. So screen

 

[Batman]

It’s possible our early OL struggles the last two seasons have meant they focus less on them.

We also don’t seem to run many WR screens or jet, orbit, end arounds likely due to the loss of Edelman

 

[Ring 6]

hmm sorry wonder why, you don't have enough time to pass or think because the DL is so good and you can't run right. So screen

Ok but the screen pass is more than a desperation play.

 

[maineman209]

One thing I've considered is the availability of quality downfield blocking from TE and WR this season.

Can't really use Gronk since he'd only attract attention to the screen side. Allen can probably help, but I don't think Hollister is consistent enough in his downfield blocking to rely on (he's willing, but just not smart enough about it yet).

Edelman is a nasty blocker, and a healthy Hogan is pretty smart and tenacious. Amendola can be pretty decent. Cooks, like Gronk, would only attract defensive attention. Dorsett's blocking is underrated, I think, but - at 5'10"/185 - there's only so much he can do against DL and LBs in the open field. Perhaps Britt can help with this.

Anyway, this is maybe another aspect in addition to issues with OL blocking on screens.