Pre Game Thread- Pats @ Browns

[Triumph]

Hopefully they invite @venecol on the show to debate Orlovsky.

The legend of Mac is growing by the week.

 

[Wozzy]

You are spot on with this. The team chose Sony because they thought he was better at catching passes and better in space than Chubb. The plan at the time was to make him into a better version of Burkhead.

The team chose Sony because he was great at pass blocking and they had a 41 year old QB at the time. This is the first thing Nick Caesario said in the post-draft Q&A when asked about the Sony pick... that he "understood complex blocking schemes."

Chubb was terrible at pass blocking, and was for years into his tenure with the Browns. They used to take him off the field on obvious passing downs for that very reason. He has improved on it now, but that doesn't help a Super Bowl contending team back in 2018.

Unfortunately most fans don't understand that we're talking about real football here, not fantasy football... and the goal is to win rings. As to whether pass blocking from the RB position is important... why don't you ask Alex Smith who had his leg turned into a pretzel because his RB couldn't pass block. Fans are mostly clueless.

 

[Triumph]

You are spot on with this. The team chose Sony because they thought he was better at catching passes and better in space than Chubb. The plan at the time was to make him into a better version of Burkhead.

They must have been drinking when they should have been thinking. James White was still on the team.

Sony - 40 targets - 258 yards - 1 TD over his 3 year span in NE.

White - 290 targets - 1771 yards - 13 TDs over the same 3 year span.

Chubb has better number receiving as well.

 

[Triumph]

 

[Stu Pidassle]

The team chose Sony because he was great at pass blocking and they had a 41 year old QB at the time. This is the first thing Nick Caesario said in the post-draft Q&A when asked about the Sony pick... that he "understood complex blocking schemes."

Chubb was terrible at pass blocking, and was for years into his tenure with the Browns. They used to take him off the field on obvious passing downs for that very reason. He has improved on it now, but that doesn't help a Super Bowl contending team back in 2018.

Unfortunately most fans don't understand that we're talking about real football here, not fantasy football... and the goal is to win rings. As to whether pass blocking from the RB position is important... why don't you ask Alex Smith who had his leg turned into a pretzel because his RB couldn't pass block. Fans are mostly clueless.

I should have said that he was thought to be better in the passing game, which includes your point on blocking. Pass protection is very important and is a big reason why the Pats 3rd down backs usually have a longer development curve learning how to pass block. The problem with specialized RBs is that the teams run/pass intentions are too predictable. When choosing Sony the team was looking for a back, similar to Burkhead, who could be effective running or passing. Clearly he did not fulfill this vision.

 

[PatsFan2]

The team chose Sony because he was great at pass blocking and they had a 41 year old QB at the time. This is the first thing Nick Caesario said in the post-draft Q&A when asked about the Sony pick... that he "understood complex blocking schemes."

Chubb was terrible at pass blocking, and was for years into his tenure with the Browns. They used to take him off the field on obvious passing downs for that very reason. He has improved on it now, but that doesn't help a Super Bowl contending team back in 2018.

Unfortunately most fans don't understand that we're talking about real football here, not fantasy football... and the goal is to win rings. As to whether pass blocking from the RB position is important... why don't you ask Alex Smith who had his leg turned into a pretzel because his RB couldn't pass block. Fans are mostly clueless.

And Sony was the Standard for pass blocking when he was here? I thought that was James White?

 

[Wozzy]

I should have said that he was thought to be better in the passing game, which includes your point on blocking. Pass protection is very important and is a big reason why the Pats 3rd down backs usually have a longer development curve learning how to pass block. The problem with specialized RBs is that the teams run/pass intentions are too predictable. When choosing Sony the team was looking for a back, similar to Burkhead, who could be effective running or passing. Clearly he did not fulfill this vision.

If by some chance Sony played the two games he missed in 2018 and averaged the same amount of yards he did the rest of the season he would have ranked 4th in the entire NFL in rushing yards. People act like he was bad... he wasn't. He has a bad wheel, his career now is practically over. They didn't draft him for a long time, they drafted him to win now... and they won a ring.

Regardless of whether they took Sony or Chubb with that pick, the Pats weren't going to extend a RB to a massive second contract. Those guys are expendable for a reason... because Todd Gurley signed a massive second contract and the Rams had to trade the house to get rid of that contract.

RB's expire quickly, Chubb is the exception not the norm. It doesn't matter now if they took Sony and he stayed healthy or they took Chubb, neither was going to be here on a second deal either way. They change RB's the way they change tires on their car. If Damien Harris is willing to take a team friendly deal, he'll be back... otherwise he'll be gone also.

 

[Wozzy]

And Sony was the Standard for pass blocking when he was here? I thought that was James White?

Sony was a great pass blocker from day one.

Hell last season Rhamondre couldn't play, wasn't active the first month of the season because he couldn't pass block, not because he couldn't run.

Every RB drafted or signed can run, pass blocking and understand route concepts is what gets them on the field. Bad teams play half developed players and get their QB killed... the Pats aren't one of those.

 

[crawhammer]

5 years later Chubb has proven to be the much better RB coming out of that Georgia backfield. It's not even debatable. Chubb averages 5.4 yards per carry and he has 43 TDs in 63 games. He's the best RB in the NFL right now and opposing defenses know he's Cleveland's entire offense until Watson gets on the field. Sony averages 4.2 yards per carry and he has 18 TDs in 60 games. Chubb has been way more productive in the passing game too with 98 receptions for 788 yards compared with Sony's 52 receptions for 417 yards. At this point Sony is fortunate to still be in the league, currently holding on by a thread in LA. The 2018 Patriots running game was about the o-line.

 

[Ross12]

I think there are a few things Mac should have learned from watching the last 2 games:

1. The OL is actually doing decent, you don't need to get spooked so much
2. Throw it to Hunter Henry sometimes, man
3. If you don't throw INTs, it helps a lot

 

[NG Pats Fan]

You are spot on with this. The team chose Sony because they thought he was better at catching passes and better in space than Chubb. The plan at the time was to make him into a better version of Burkhead.

Better in space is funny. In 2017, Chubb was clocked at 22MPH on one run, the fastest time recorded in college that year.

 

[BB8XSBW]

One of the best parts about MJ's return, other than the dominant run this team will go on with the GOAT under center, is the amount of tears that will come from our jealous haters, who were legitimately hoping that Bill will name some random hillbilly kid as the starter instead.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The team chose Sony because he was great at pass blocking and they had a 41 year old QB at the time. This is the first thing Nick Caesario said in the post-draft Q&A when asked about the Sony pick... that he "understood complex blocking schemes."

Chubb was terrible at pass blocking, and was for years into his tenure with the Browns. They used to take him off the field on obvious passing downs for that very reason. He has improved on it now, but that doesn't help a Super Bowl contending team back in 2018.

Unfortunately most fans don't understand that we're talking about real football here, not fantasy football... and the goal is to win rings. As to whether pass blocking from the RB position is important... why don't you ask Alex Smith who had his leg turned into a pretzel because his RB couldn't pass block. Fans are mostly clueless.

Take off your homer glasses. We already had James white. Also, You don’t spend a first round pick on a running back because of his ability to pass block. You take the guy who can win you games with his ability to run. Also where is this game tape of Sony’s elite pass blocking at Georgia? I have game film of him displaying terrible inside technique, where Chubb excelled at.

Yeah real football. Give me the bigger faster stronger more athletic back who rushes for 1500 yards and 15 TDs per year. You’re the same guy who defended the N’keal Harry pick for years.

You’re 41 year old argument makes zero sense. We drafted a guard with our other first round pick. There was plenty of blocking to go around. Brady wanted offensive weapons. Instead we gave him Michel and Harry.

 

[gitgronked82]

I think there are a few things Mac should have learned from watching the last 2 games:

1. The OL is actually doing decent, you don't need to get spooked so much
2. Throw it to Hunter Henry sometimes, man
3. If you don't throw INTs, it helps a lot

I don’t think we’ve learned a lot about Henry from these games. The first play of the game on Sunday his man collapsed and left him wide open.
Later he did do a good job with his out route vs zone.
Another one was a broken play dump off.

He still needs to get open more this year.

 

[crawhammer]

I think there are a few things Mac should have learned from watching the last 2 games:

1. The OL is actually doing decent, you don't need to get spooked so much
2. Throw it to Hunter Henry sometimes, man
3. If you don't throw INTs, it helps a lot

The number one thing he learned is it sucks to be injured when the Detroit Lions are your opponent.

Welcome back! Yours truly, Myles Garrett

 

[NG Pats Fan]

If by some chance Sony played the two games he missed in 2018 and averaged the same amount of yards he did the rest of the season he would have ranked 4th in the entire NFL in rushing yards. People act like he was bad... he wasn't. He has a bad wheel, his career now is practically over. They didn't draft him for a long time, they drafted him to win now... and they won a ring.

Regardless of whether they took Sony or Chubb with that pick, the Pats weren't going to extend a RB to a massive second contract. Those guys are expendable for a reason... because Todd Gurley signed a massive second contract and the Rams had to trade the house to get rid of that contract.

RB's expire quickly, Chubb is the exception not the norm. It doesn't matter now if they took Sony and he stayed healthy or they took Chubb, neither was going to be here on a second deal either way. They change RB's the way they change tires on their car. If Damien Harris is willing to take a team friendly deal, he'll be back... otherwise he'll be gone also.

Sony was pretty bad. He’s out of the NFL 4 years later. After 2018, he barely even contributed to help the team. Meanwhile his college teammate , who started over him every game, is the best RB in the NFL.

Even taking 2018 into account, Sony never made one run his entire nfl career that made you go “wow”. He looked pedestrian at best on film. All those touchdowns and yards he ran for in 2018 postseason was catapulted by amazing O line blocking and huge holes.

 

[ashley]

Welcome back! Yours truly, Myles Garrett

You do know that Garret has been injured this year and although he played last week against the Chargers, he was a non-factor and showed up again on the injury report yesterday as a "limited participant".

 

[PatsFan2]

I don’t think we’ve learned a lot about Henry from these games. The first play of the game on Sunday his man collapsed and left him wide open.
Later he did do a good job with his out route vs zone.
Another one was a broken play dump off.

He still needs to get open more this year.

Well Zappe found H Henry the way Mac did as a Rookie last game. It's said from going over the tapes earlier when Mac played: guys were open but Mac wasn't seeing them for some reason. Jonnno Smith now that's a different story he's officially stealing $$$$.

 

[ashley]

Sony was pretty bad. He’s out of the NFL 4 years later. After 2018, he barely even contributed to help the team.

But in 2018 he was a "major factor" in us winning the Super Bowl. It's always a team effort: defense, offense, coaching etc...but people on here always tend to minimize how important he was to that team.

 

[signbabybrady]

They must have been drinking when they should have been thinking. James White was still on the team.

Sony - 40 targets - 258 yards - 1 TD over his 3 year span in NE.

White - 290 targets - 1771 yards - 13 TDs over the same 3 year span.

Chubb has better number receiving as well.

That was a fun 3 year span. I love White.