Pre Game Thread- Pats @ Browns

[upstater1]

Sony had bad knees. How the feck can you draft a QB with bad knees??!!

A little reminder though for why Derick Henry fell. Nick Saban overused him, he broke his fibula, he had injury issues. He was coming into the NFL as beaten-up and halfway used up. The rest is history.

 

[Ross12]

Do you think Bourne can line up properly?

Based on last week, no lol

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I thought Michel was the right pick of the 2. Calling him Chubb's backup their final year is pretty misleading. They had similar production, with Sony being more efficient and looking like the better dual threat that would better help our offense. Problem was bad knees, quickly losing his burst, and never integrating him in the passing game. Meanwhile, Chubb is a beast.

not that misleading.

Chubb was the Georgia bell cow and received more carries on first and second downs against loaded boxes. Michel saw an 8 man box only 10% of the time his final year at Georgia. contact. Michel was basically a good third down guy. Despite seeing heavier boxes, Chubb consistently showed that he could run through contact. He was also the much bigger and faster man.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I thought Chubb was the best of the two it was close but Chubb would have been my choice I thought he was the better runner out right. Also it's said that Chubb carried the football more @ Georgia maybe BB thought that he was getting the fresher RB.

Chubb is much bigger, and historically Belichick loves bigger backs like Blount. I’m still shocked he went with the little guy.

 

[mikey m]

not that misleading.

Chubb was the Georgia bell cow and received more carries on first and second downs against loaded boxes. Michel saw an 8 man box only 10% of the time his final year at Georgia. contact. Michel was basically a good third down guy. Despite seeing heavier boxes, Chubb consistently showed that he could run through contact. He was also the much bigger and faster man.

Chubb (227lbs 4.52 40ydd): 223 att / 1345 yds / 6.0 ypc / 15 tds / 4 rec / 30 yds

Michel (214lbs 4.54 40ydd): 156 att / 1227 yds / 7.9 ypc / 16 tds / 9 rec / 96 yds / 1 td

Michel was a great prospect and universally thought of as more than a "good third down guy."

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Chubb (227lbs 4.52 40ydd): 223 att / 1345 yds / 6.0 ypc / 15 tds / 4 rec / 30 yds

Michel (214lbs 4.54 40ydd): 156 att / 1227 yds / 7.9 ypc / 16 tds / 9 rec / 96 yds / 1 td

Michel was a great prospect and universally thought of as more than a "good third down guy."

Not only do you nitpick one year to try to improve Sony’s standing, you completely neglect my point about Chubb producing against stacked boxes while Michel hardly faced them. Again Chubb started with Michel coming in on third down.

Career stats at Georgia:

Chubb:
4,769 yards, 44 TDs rushing


Michel:
3,613 yards, 33 TDs rushing

Testing: Chubb tested overall the way better athlete, along with being faster and bigger

 

[mgteich]

Parker has started all 5 games and has approximately 80% of potential offensive snaps.

Meyers 2 starts and Agahlor 3 starts have each had about 50% of potential snaps. Meyers of course has missed 2 games. Bourne has 1 start.

I don't see why the Pat's would want to trade Agahlor. After paying him last season - where he underperformed IMO, the Pat's are dollar cost averaging with his improved play thus far in 2022.

I agree with all that you posted.

BTW, I am 100% fine with keeping Agholor. I think it even possible that he is extended, especially if they don't think that they can extend Myers.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Patriots 24 Browns 14 is my final prediction.

Brissett will be rattled all day by our defense. Browns coaching staff always screw’s themselves by throwing the ball too much rather than using the nfls best 1-2 punch.

 

[mikey m]

Not only do you nitpick one year to try to improve Sony’s standing, you completely neglect my point about Chubb producing against stacked boxes while Michel hardly faced them. Again Chubb started with Michel coming in on third down.

Career stats at Georgia:

Chubb:
4,769 yards, 44 TDs rushing


Michel:
3,613 yards, 33 TDs rushing

Testing: Chubb tested overall the way better athlete, along with being faster and bigger

I neglected your point because you provided no statistics or evidence for it. Care to provide any stats on stacked boxes or at least information on which tests Chubb performed better on?

Also, that's part of the benefit of a dual threat rb. You're not as predictable and stacking the box comes with more risk.

I "nitpicked" their final year, obviously the most important one.

 

[mgteich]

I neglected your point because you provided no statistics or evidence for it. Care to provide any stats on stacked boxes or at least information on which tests Chubb performed better on?

Also, that's part of the benefit of a dual threat rb. You're not as predictable and stacking the box comes with more risk.

I "nitpicked" their final year, obviously the most important one.

Yes, if the Brown pass too much, the patriots will win easily.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Yes, if the Brown pass too much, the patriots will win easily.

I watched the browns last game. Coach is a moron. 3 passes inside the 5 instead of handing it off to Chubb. When Chubb was in college, there was no better runner in turning 0 yards into a 3 yard gain..vision strength and size . Which means he’s deadly on the goaline. Anyways..brissett gets intercepted. This happens often with them. Let’s face it, brissett cannot throw the ball on an NFL level. Which is one of the reasons I think patriots win

 

[VJCPatriot]

Can we see a repeat standout performance from the Defense or will the sputtering offense put us in a bad position on the road?

I feel like we're about equally as bad as the Browns, but our offense is really bad so unless we get more defensive touchdowns, I don't see us cracking 25+ points which is what we're going to need to win.

Nick Folk will be our leading scorer again.

Nick Chubb is gonna have a field day against our defense as we watch Devin Lloyd have a standout season for the Jaguars instead of us, but gee golly we got an offensive guard in round 1!

I'm gonna hazard we lose a close game on the road 24-22 because we don't score enough TDs in the redzone and Nick Chubb easily runs for over 100 against our run D.

Patriots have given up a total of 644 rushing yards for an average of over 128 yards per game through 5 played ranked at 22nd overall in the NFL.

 

[n1997y]

Do you think Bourne can line up properly?

Based on last week, no lol

Based on last year, is there a question?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Based on last year, is there a question?

We didn't think so this time last week.

 

[catent]

Chubb (227lbs 4.52 40ydd): 223 att / 1345 yds / 6.0 ypc / 15 tds / 4 rec / 30 yds

Michel (214lbs 4.54 40ydd): 156 att / 1227 yds / 7.9 ypc / 16 tds / 9 rec / 96 yds / 1 td

Michel was a great prospect and universally thought of as more than a "good third down guy."

Yep. Michel never fully showed in the NFL what he did at UGA. Physically he always looked pretty sloppy here, while he looked slimmer, leaner, and lighter on his feet at UGA.

I'm not sure if it was a strength/conditioning issue, where the team tried to develop him physically in ways that didn't suit him. Or if it was a personal issue, where he simply wasn't doing what he needed to in order to keep himself in shape and fit. Maybe some of both.

While I appreciate his contributions, relative to his selection spot and the potential he flashed in college, that pick didn't pan out as well as it could've.

 

[Triumph]

Dan Orlovsky from ESPN was on Merloni, Fauria & Mego today and he was asked for his thoughts on the QB situation in New England. Here are some quotes/notes from his interview:

• He believes that Zappe did a great job of not losing the game for the Patriots. He also says that he watched tape and Zappe only really had to make one "NFL throw"(the TD pass to Jakobi). Meaning, the rest of his throws were screens, dump offs, or just hitting his first read quickly.
• He had some high praise of the 2 guards in New England (Onwenu & Strange):
  "I've talked this for a few weeks now... Inside, their two guards, is as good as anyone's in the league"
• When asked about Bill not declaring Mac the starter in his press conference today:
  "Listen, I will be very clear. There is absolutely no shot that Bailey Zappe even sniffs becoming the starting quarterback for the New England Patriots as long as Mac Jones is on the team. That is not a knock to Bailey Zappe. But Mac Jones has the chance to be a very very good longterm NFL pro, and he's proven it."
• "Coach Belichick knows football better than anybody in the history of the planet. I don't think he's sitting there going, 'Well, we played good one game against a team that, right now, is the softest defense in the NFL in Green Bay. And then we played solid offensively against a team that had given up more points and yards than anybody in the NFL. Great. We've got a superstar at quarterback'."
• "There's no reality here that makes Bailey Zappe a threat, or potential person, to unseat Mac Jones"
• "Mac plays significantly faster both physically and mentally. Mac can cancel out things pre-snap in such a short amount of time. He has a way quicker delivery. His ball placement is significantly better... His ability to diagnose post snap movement and coverage... He's elite at this stuff. He's not good at it, he's ELITE at it."
• "While Bailey might do a couple of those things well, or good, certainly in the short body of work that we have of him, we've got a year in the NFL and 2+ years in college of watching Mac do this stuff... there's a reason one was a 1st round pick and one was a... 4th round pick."
• "There's so much physically and mentally that Mac does consistently, at a significantly higher level, than Bailey does"

 

[Triumph]

Dan Orlovsky from ESPN was on Merloni, Fauria & Mego today and he was asked for his thoughts on the QB situation in New England. Here are some quotes/notes from his interview:

• He believes that Zappe did a great job of not losing the game for the Patriots. He also says that he watched tape and Zappe only really had to make one "NFL throw"(the TD pass to Jakobi). Meaning, the rest of his throws were screens, dump offs, or just hitting his first read quickly.
• He had some high praise of the 2 guards in New England (Onwenu & Strange):
  "I've talked this for a few weeks now... Inside, their two guards, is as good as anyone's in the league"
• When asked about Bill not declaring Mac the starter in his press conference today:
  "Listen, I will be very clear. There is absolutely no shot that Bailey Zappe even sniffs becoming the starting quarterback for the New England Patriots as long as Mac Jones is on the team. That is not a knock to Bailey Zappe. But Mac Jones has the chance to be a very very good longterm NFL pro, and he's proven it."
• "Coach Belichick knows football better than anybody in the history of the planet. I don't think he's sitting there going, 'Well, we played good one game against a team that, right now, is the softest defense in the NFL in Green Bay. And then we played solid offensively against a team that had given up more points and yards than anybody in the NFL. Great. We've got a superstar at quarterback'."
• "There's no reality here that makes Bailey Zappe a threat, or potential person, to unseat Mac Jones"
• "Mac plays significantly faster both physically and mentally. Mac can cancel out things pre-snap in such a short amount of time. He has a way quicker delivery. His ball placement is significantly better... His ability to diagnose post snap movement and coverage... He's elite at this stuff. He's not good at it, he's ELITE at it."
• "While Bailey might do a couple of those things well, or good, certainly in the short body of work that we have of him, we've got a year in the NFL and 2+ years in college of watching Mac do this stuff... there's a reason one was a 1st round pick and one was a... 4th round pick."
• "There's so much physically and mentally that Mac does consistently, at a significantly higher level, than Bailey does"

You learn something everyday.

Cant wait to see the wins piling up when "Elite Mac" returns. The Bills Mafia days are numbered.

 

[ashley]

Getting everyone ready for a Thursday:

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Yep. Michel never fully showed in the NFL what he did at UGA. Physically he always looked pretty sloppy here, while he looked slimmer, leaner, and lighter on his feet at UGA.

I'm not sure if it was a strength/conditioning issue, where the team tried to develop him physically in ways that didn't suit him. Or if it was a personal issue, where he simply wasn't doing what he needed to in order to keep himself in shape and fit. Maybe some of both.

While I appreciate his contributions, relative to his selection spot and the potential he flashed in college, that pick didn't pan out as well as it could've.

You are spot on with this. The team chose Sony because they thought he was better at catching passes and better in space than Chubb. The plan at the time was to make him into a better version of Burkhead.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Dan Orlovsky from ESPN was on Merloni, Fauria & Mego today and he was asked for his thoughts on the QB situation in New England. Here are some quotes/notes from his interview:

• He believes that Zappe did a great job of not losing the game for the Patriots. He also says that he watched tape and Zappe only really had to make one "NFL throw"(the TD pass to Jakobi). Meaning, the rest of his throws were screens, dump offs, or just hitting his first read quickly.
• He had some high praise of the 2 guards in New England (Onwenu & Strange):
  "I've talked this for a few weeks now... Inside, their two guards, is as good as anyone's in the league"
• When asked about Bill not declaring Mac the starter in his press conference today:
  "Listen, I will be very clear. There is absolutely no shot that Bailey Zappe even sniffs becoming the starting quarterback for the New England Patriots as long as Mac Jones is on the team. That is not a knock to Bailey Zappe. But Mac Jones has the chance to be a very very good longterm NFL pro, and he's proven it."
• "Coach Belichick knows football better than anybody in the history of the planet. I don't think he's sitting there going, 'Well, we played good one game against a team that, right now, is the softest defense in the NFL in Green Bay. And then we played solid offensively against a team that had given up more points and yards than anybody in the NFL. Great. We've got a superstar at quarterback'."
• "There's no reality here that makes Bailey Zappe a threat, or potential person, to unseat Mac Jones"
• "Mac plays significantly faster both physically and mentally. Mac can cancel out things pre-snap in such a short amount of time. He has a way quicker delivery. His ball placement is significantly better... His ability to diagnose post snap movement and coverage... He's elite at this stuff. He's not good at it, he's ELITE at it."
• "While Bailey might do a couple of those things well, or good, certainly in the short body of work that we have of him, we've got a year in the NFL and 2+ years in college of watching Mac do this stuff... there's a reason one was a 1st round pick and one was a... 4th round pick."
• "There's so much physically and mentally that Mac does consistently, at a significantly higher level, than Bailey does"

Hopefully they invite @venecol on the show to debate Orlovsky.