Pre-Free Agency 2023

[Zuma]

Yes, spot on!! McCourty was headed down the draft bust highway year 2 , however he was moved to safety and ended up being a great safety for us.

IMO he was moved to safety to help shore-up FS…bend but don’t break.

Wiki…

Year 1 “McCourty was named a First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Second-team All-Pro by The Associated Press.”

 

[upstater1]

Yes, spot on!! McCourty was headed down the draft bust highway year 2 , however he was moved to safety and ended up being a great safety for us.

Yes, the corners we did draft that busted out were actually asked to play man.. however they just were man corners.. Cyrus Jones and Dawson were complete head scratching picks..

Assante was a good zone corner, he actually played well when he left NE before his career flamed out. But yes WR is just so bad... I wouldn't be opposed to us drafting a CB.. we need to strengthen that area for sure..

If you look at top 15 DBs the last several years, there have been almost no misses. It's easy to hit on them in the top of the draft. Very high hit rate.

WRs we miss a lot, but I'll say this again. After Dobson, the Patriots went 9 years before they drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds. So, if you're never going to use a premium pick on a WR, you're also not going to miss. You can't miss if you don't swing. The only guy who was picked in the 1st 4 rounds was Malcolm Mitchell, and he was a hit.

 

[DW Toys]

He definitely wasn't used properly last season for sure.. I can see a resurgence for him.. what a boost would that be for Mac and the offense if so. Imagine having 2 threats at TE , a dam good RB in rham and some threats on the outside with Thornton.. that for sure will make DC have to game plan most definitely..

Good morning Cousins,
A great breakfast of provolone cheese and bacon scramble, hot buttered cinnamon chip muffins , OJ and hot coffee with peppermint mocha sweetener starts me off.

Jonnu Smith? What to do? Not used indeed. WR D.K. Metcalf i s 6'4" and 236. Smith is 6'3" and probably 242. at FIU smith played all over the offense including RB.. Smith is faster than Meyers at 4.62 and has a 38 vert.

For the Titans, Smith played 148 snaps in the slot an 11 outside his best year 2020. He impressed which is why we signed him, In a wasted year of 2022 for the Pats he caught 71% of the balls thrown his way without a single drop.
We are paying him WR money.Is that a fair statement?
If Meyers get $16mm to a CAP rich Team that needs a WR, he is gone. Good for him.....bad for us.

Why can't BOB put this kid in the slot? He can run. He had extensive experience as an RB at FIU and played some snaps for the Titans there so he has some RB game in him and wiggle. The Godfather of the slot WR then developed in the 60's was Paul Warfield who was a RB with the old Cleveland Browns. Slot WR gives you more space off the line.

Example: In 2021 before he was asked to play on the line like Smith was asked to do, Finns Mike Gesicki caught 73 passes and not as a TE but mostly out of the slot. Your typical slot DB is not your biggest guy.

Why can't the faster and bigger Smith play the Meyers role in 2023? If Gesicki can haul in 73 as a TE convert , can Smith?

DW Toys

 

[Real fan 02]

IMO he was moved to safety to help shore-up FS…bend but don’t break.

Wiki…

Year 1 “McCourty was named a First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Second-team All-Pro by The Associated Press.”

Yes that's absolutely correct, but his second season 2011 is where he struggled at corner early on and was switched to safety.. the whole secondary was bad that season, coupled with no pass rush.. we were giving up 400 yards passing each game..

 

[Real fan 02]

If you look at top 15 DBs the last several years, there have been almost no misses. It's easy to hit on them in the top of the draft. Very high hit rate.

WRs we miss a lot, but I'll say this again. After Dobson, the Patriots went 9 years before they drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds. So, if you're never going to use a premium pick on a WR, you're also not going to miss. You can't miss if you don't swing. The only guy who was picked in the 1st 4 rounds was Malcolm Mitchell, and he was a hit.

Yes, Malcom Mitchell who actually played well.. I believe he had issues with his knee coming out of college. Same thing with picks like Easley.. as they say if you come into the league with injuries your definitely not going to get healthier..

But I'd definitely like if we took some DBs , depth if anything is what we need. Safety we have some depth ,but like corner missing that 1 key guy opposite Dugger that can be a game changer..

 

[patsinthesnow]

2012 Aqib Talib

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: coming off a mediocre season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with pats & broncos as a press man CB, fringe HOFer

2014 Darrelle Revis

age when acquired: 28
reason he was available: coming off a down season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with the pats as a press man CB

2017 Stephon Gilmore

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: inconsistent play in rex's blitz heavy defense
result: all-pro & DPOY with pats as a press man CB



Jalen Ramsey
age: 28
reason he may be available: inconsistent play in the rams scheme that plays the most off coverage in the NFL

I hope they make a play for him if he's available. He's exactly what they’re missing at outside CB IMO.

 

[Real fan 02]

2012 Aqib Talib

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: coming off a mediocre season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with pats & broncos as a press man CB, fringe HOFer

2014 Darrelle Revis

age when acquired: 28
reason he was available: coming off a down season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with the pats as a press man CB

2017 Stephon Gilmore

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: inconsistent play in rex's blitz heavy defense
result: all-pro & DPOY with pats as a press man CB



Jalen Ramsey
age: 28
reason he may be available: inconsistent play in the rams scheme that plays the most off coverage in the NFL

I hope they make a play for him if he's available. He's exactly what they’re missing at outside CB IMO.

This is the perfect example I've been trying to make! Pats in the snow your spot on brother! A guy like Ramsey who is press man corner.. our scheme is man coverage.. due to injuries and guys out of position last season at the corner position we were forced to play zone..

The rams are wasting him in his prime.. they have no draft capital.. we absolutely should be making a run at him.. if ownership is serious about becoming a contender again then moves like this is what it takes!.. how many times did we have teams 3rd and long.. myles Bryant or Jonathan Jones plays off coverage and gives up a 1st down!

 

[BTTA]

It would be literally impossible for our track record to be as bad as WR. Yes, we had some misses and certainly some busts in there, but Pats either drafted or developed (undrafteed) all these players...

Asante Samuel, Ty Law (before BB), Logan Ryan, Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, Devin McCourty (drafted as CB), Malcom Butler, Jackson, Darius Butler (Actually had a decent career in NFL)...

They've also drafted a number of pretty decent Safeties.

"Hall of shame" for highly drafted CBs.
- JoeJuan Williams
- Duke Dawson
- Cyrus Jones
- Ras-I-Dowling

I agree that it hasn't been a position of strength - but I'd take our chances at CB over WR where we have just been dreadful.

I don't think "shame" is appropriate for drafting. Dawson is still playing. Williams is on IR (right?). Jones and Williams weren't that far off of average for their draft position. Dowling went on to have an average NFL career. He was about to start as a rookie when a second injury got him; the disappointment of fans is what's driving the evaluation, not objective analysis.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think "shame" is appropriate for drafting. Dawson is still playing. Williams is on IR (right?). Jones and Williams weren't that far off of average for their draft position. Dowling went on to have an average NFL career. He was about to start as a rookie when a second injury got him; the disappointment of fans is what's driving the evaluation, not objective analysis.

I think shame was used as these guys showed promise based on thier college careers.. Williams was on IR with a shoulder injury his had to be long term as he didn't have a designation to return.

Dawson I believe is with the Steelers, Marcus was a 2nd ? And Jack was a 4th right? I can't even recall if Dowling even played in the NFL again I know he had constant issues with his knee.. your right the disappointment of fans! we had a tough stretch in the secondary where we just couldn't hold up! That actually held us back from winning the second giants superbowl..

 

[Toofy]

It would be literally impossible for our track record to be as bad as WR. Yes, we had some misses and certainly some busts in there, but Pats either drafted or developed (undrafteed) all these players...

Asante Samuel, Ty Law (before BB), Logan Ryan, Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, Devin McCourty (drafted as CB), Malcom Butler, Jackson, Darius Butler (Actually had a decent career in NFL)...

They've also drafted a number of pretty decent Safeties.

"Hall of shame" for highly drafted CBs.
- JoeJuan Williams
- Duke Dawson
- Cyrus Jones
- Ras-I-Dowling

I agree that it hasn't been a position of strength - but I'd take our chances at CB over WR where we have just been dreadful.

You seem to have a soft corner for Jordan Richards who is competing for the most hated patriot with nkeal Harry.

 

[PatsFan2]

2012 Aqib Talib

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: coming off a mediocre season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with pats & broncos as a press man CB, fringe HOFer

2014 Darrelle Revis

age when acquired: 28
reason he was available: coming off a down season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with the pats as a press man CB

2017 Stephon Gilmore

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: inconsistent play in rex's blitz heavy defense
result: all-pro & DPOY with pats as a press man CB



Jalen Ramsey
age: 28
reason he may be available: inconsistent play in the rams scheme that plays the most off coverage in the NFL

I hope they make a play for him if he's available. He's exactly what they’re missing at outside CB IMO.

Jalen Ramsey and Jack Jones with with Judon and Uche would really put this Defense over the Top. We'd be much better equipped to defend Teams like the Dolphins and Bills I like and we know how BB feels about Good CB's.

 

[Real fan 02]

Jalen Ramsey and Jack Jones with with Judon and Uche would really put this Defense over the Top. We'd be much better equipped to defend Teams like the Dolphins and Bills I like and we know how BB feels about Good CB's.

For sure, we are stout up front. We could use another fast LB, but we have some young guys McMillan, mack Wilson that were pretty good in thier roles.

Watching Sauce erase Diggs, each time they played the jets was the only time allen looked like a JAG .

The idea if Ramsey being acquired is a real possibility.. we have what the rams don't ( draft picks) they have what we don't )an elite lock down corner) in his prime being improperly used..

 

[upstater1]

Yes, Malcom Mitchell who actually played well.. I believe he had issues with his knee coming out of college. Same thing with picks like Easley.. as they say if you come into the league with injuries your definitely not going to get healthier..

But I'd definitely like if we took some DBs , depth if anything is what we need. Safety we have some depth ,but like corner missing that 1 key guy opposite Dugger that can be a game changer..

In fairness, he tore his ACL in college (in a TD celebration of all things) but it was his freshman year. Also, it was his right knee.

In New England, he injured his left knee in summer camp, and that's the knee they operated on, and he was never the same.

 

[notex]

You seem to have a soft corner for Jordan Richards who is competing for the most hated patriot with nkeal Harry.

Well, Jordan Richards played Safety. Certainly one of the biggest head scratcher picks of BB's era.

Then again, you could have said the same about Nate Solder, Kyle Duggar etc.. and they turned out great.

 

[Toofy]

Well, Jordan Richards played Safety. Certainly one of the biggest head scratcher picks of BB's era.

Then again, you could have said the same about Nate Solder, Kyle Duggar etc.. and they turned out great.

No I just meant when you included DBs you inadvertently left out Richards who deserved to be there. That's all .

So was surprised not to see Richards in hall of shame .

 

[TheRainMaker]

2012 Aqib Talib

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: coming off a mediocre season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with pats & broncos as a press man CB, fringe HOFer

2014 Darrelle Revis

age when acquired: 28
reason he was available: coming off a down season playing in a zone scheme
result: all-pro with the pats as a press man CB

2017 Stephon Gilmore

age when acquired: 26
reason he was available: inconsistent play in rex's blitz heavy defense
result: all-pro & DPOY with pats as a press man CB



Jalen Ramsey
age: 28
reason he may be available: inconsistent play in the rams scheme that plays the most off coverage in the NFL

I hope they make a play for him if he's available. He's exactly what they’re missing at outside CB IMO.

This is the perfect example I've been trying to make! Pats in the snow your spot on brother! A guy like Ramsey who is press man corner.. our scheme is man coverage.. due to injuries and guys out of position last season at the corner position we were forced to play zone..

The rams are wasting him in his prime.. they have no draft capital.. we absolutely should be making a run at him.. if ownership is serious about becoming a contender again then moves like this is what it takes!.. how many times did we have teams 3rd and long.. myles Bryant or Jonathan Jones plays off coverage and gives up a 1st down!

The problem I have with Ramsey is not only is he a really weird dude, but he checks out of games when the season isn't going right. With that being said, if the price is right, the trigger should be pulled immediately.

 

[Real fan 02]

The problem I have with Ramsey is not only is he a really weird dude, but he checks out of games when the season isn't going right. With that being said, if the price is right, the trigger should be pulled immediately.

I understand, I believe the thing with Ramsey is the scheme.. he played his best in Jax where the DC had him playing in the right scheme.. he'd def be in the right scheme here.. with the pressure we get up front he'd be sensational in this defense.. rams scheme isn't a fit for him

 

[Real fan 02]

In fairness, he tore his ACL in college (in a TD celebration of all things) but it was his freshman year. Also, it was his right knee.

In New England, he injured his left knee in summer camp, and that's the knee they operated on, and he was never the same.

That's probably gotta be the worst feeling of all injuries that happen during a celebration.. thanks for that information.. yeah when it comes injuries we know the team is never really forthcoming on those.. it's too bad becuase he came on strong and was becoming a key contributer.. he ended up retiring?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I understand, I believe the thing with Ramsey is the scheme.. he played his best in Jax where the DC had him playing in the right scheme.. he'd def be in the right scheme here.. with the pressure we get up front he'd be sensational in this defense.. rams scheme isn't a fit for him

When he's on his game, he can rattle some of the best in the NFL.

 

[Real fan 02]

When he's on his game, he can rattle some of the best in the NFL.

For sure, I'd absolutely love for him to rattle Allen 2x a year for us.. he's also excellent against the run as well