Post Game Thread- Pats destroy the Jets

[RobertWeathers]

They have done pretty much the same thing as they have done in previous regular seasons.
In games 5-14 they threw for over 3000 yards.
People are looking at one game in buffalo and calling it an organization change.

Those numbers included Josh Gordon. Hes no longer with the team. Things are different now.

The majority of talent on this team is in the backfield. That is undeniable.

In the years the team has had 2k yards on the ground and made the playoffs with Tom the run/pass has been...

2004- 71/99
2012- 94/52
2013- 63/62

Thats 52%/48 % run pass. With that said I also think the numbers are also dictated by the matchups and flow of the game. When they control it, its balanced. When the are down, they pass.

Even in 07 when teams doubled Moss and WW they were 50/50 run-pass vs JAX and SD. They could do that as the D was decent overall.

That’s the point, they always have.

Its not that simple. Having above average talent in the backfield allows the offense to be diversified (04 Dillon, 12 Ridley 13 Ridley/Blount monster even 07 Maroney was respected) and take advantage of weaker run defenses. I fully expect Michel, Cord, White and Burkhead to see plenty of touches.

 

[Ring 6]

Those numbers included Josh Gordon. Hes no longer with the team. Things are different now.

No they aren’t.

The majority of talent on this team is in the backfield. That is undeniable.

Huh?
White is a receiver. Burkhead is as much receiver as runner (and a much better receiver than runner)
You are saying the talent is Sony Michel period?
Belichick will stake his success in Brady’s arm before michels legs.

In the years the team has had 2k yards on the ground and made the playoffs with Tom the run/pass has been...

2004- 71/99
2012- 94/52
2013- 63/62


Thats 52%/48 % run pass.

This is a horrific misuse of numbers.
But let’s break it down.
2004 is clearly a different era.

2012 is a 64% pass ratio. Why you included that is confusing.
2013 is made up of 2 games.
One vs the colts when we ran 36 times for 234 yards and 6 TDs and blew them out.
The other was a 40/16 pass run ratio.

So you have one game. I concede. If we can run for 234 yards and 6 TDs we won’t throw much.

With that said I also think the numbers are also dictated by the matchups and flow of the game. When they control it, its balanced. When the are down, they pass.

That is not what hey have done in the post season. They have increased the pass ratio consistently. They put the pressure to win big games squarely on Brady.
In Brady’s last 11 playoff games he has thrown 514 passes. We are 9-2 and average 31.7 ppg.

Even in 07 when teams doubled Moss and WW they were 50/50 run-pass vs JAX and SD. They could do that as the D was decent overall.


Its not that simple. Having above average talent in the backfield allows the offense to be diversified (04 Dillon, 12 Ridley 13 Ridley/Blount monster even 07 Maroney was respected) and take advantage of weaker run defenses. I fully expect Michel, Cord, White and Burkhead to see plenty of touches.

AGAIN I am not saying we don’t game plan, get conservative with a big lead, take advantage of weaknesses. I’m saying that we throw a lot more in the playoffs and Belichick wants winning it losing to be determined by Brady because they gives us the best chance.
I thought everyone understood we learned that lesson and that’s why we started winning SBs again.

 

[maust]

The majority of talent on this team is in the backfield. That is undeniable.

Considering who you are engaging on the topic I would have to say there is nothing, including the direction of sunrise, that is undeniable

 

[RobertWeathers]

No they aren’t.

They do. Look it up.

Huh?
White is a receiver. Burkhead is as much receiver as runner (and a much better receiver than runner)
You are saying the talent is Sony Michel period?
Belichick will stake his success in Brady’s arm before michels legs.

No You are saying it.

BB will stake his success on the best way to win a game. If Tom throws 20 times and Sony/Cord/White/Burk run 40 times he'll do that. If its Tom throwing 50 times he'll do that too but that is the result of being behind or an inability to run the ball.

This is a horrific misuse of numbers.
But let’s break it down.
2004 is clearly a different era.

2012 is a 64% pass ratio. Why you included that is confusing.
2013 is made up of 2 games.
One vs the colts when we ran 36 times for 234 yards and 6 TDs and blew them out.
The other was a 40/16 pass run ratio.

So you have one game. I concede. If we can run for 234 yards and 6 TDs we won’t throw much.

That is not what hey have done in the post season. They have increased the pass ratio consistently. They put the pressure to win big games squarely on Brady.
In Brady’s last 11 playoff games he has thrown 514 passes. We are 9-2 and average 31.7 ppg.

AGAIN I am not saying we don’t game plan, get conservative with a big lead, take advantage of weaknesses. I’m saying that we throw a lot more in the playoffs and Belichick wants winning it losing to be determined by Brady because they gives us the best chance.
I thought everyone understood we learned that lesson and that’s why we started winning SBs again.

They've increased the passing ratio because they've allowed 22ppg in your 11 games and trailed in 6 of them in the 2nd 1/2

So White, Burk and Cord don't run the football? So the ~200 carries don't count? Cmon now....

Let's be clear. We won Super Bowls again because Tom was awesome AND the defense made plays when it had to. You know this.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Considering who you are engaging on the topic I would have to say there is nothing, including the direction of sunrise, that is undeniable

I have no issue with Andy's points. Keeps me on my toes.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

If we didn't let that garbage time TD against the Bills we would have finished the season under 20 points allowed. Still top 10 in points allowed again.

Not to mention the Miami game.

 

[Ring 6]

They do. Look it up.




No You are saying it.

BB will stake his success on the best way to win a game. If Tom throws 20 times and Sony/Cord/White/Burk run 40 times he'll do that. If its Tom throwing 50 times he'll do that too but that is the result of being behind or an inability to run the ball.

And bb has decided that the best way to win in the post season is to make Tom Brady the critical part of the equation and stake your chances in him.

They've increased the passing ratio because they've allowed 22ppg in your 11 games and trailed in 6 of them in the 2nd 1/2

They held the opponent under 21 in 7 of them.
They came out throwing in most. They were not trailing enough to g change a game plan in any except 28-3.

So White, Burk and Cord don't run the football? So the ~200 carries don't count? Cmon now....

Wait. You think the RUSHING TALENT of white, Burkhead and Patterson is at the level of taking the ball out of the GOATS hands and saying handing off to them gives us a better chance if winning the Sb than Tom Brady throwing the ball? Really?

Let's be clear. We won Super Bowls again because Tom was awesome AND the defense made plays when it had to. You know this.

What are you arguing? That you think I said we don’t need to play defense?
Once we decided that we need to throw the ball 40+ and often 50+ times in the post season because we have the greatest weapon ever pulling the trigger, we went from 4-5 over 5 post seasons to 9-2 in 4 with 3 trips to the Sb and 2 championships.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And bb has decided that the best way to win in the post season is to make Tom Brady the critical part of the equation and stake your chances in him.

Well, yea...hes the GOAT but again you are ignoring the talent in this backfield and the lesser quality and depth at receiver and TE. Less for Tom to work with this year.

They held the opponent under 21 in 7 of them.
They came out throwing in most. They were not trailing enough to g change a game plan in any except 28-3.

Agree but again they didn't have a RB like Sony.

Wait. You think the RUSHING TALENT of white, Burkhead and Patterson is at the level of taking the ball out of the GOATS hands and saying handing off to them gives us a better chance if winning the Sb than Tom Brady throwing the ball? Really?

I never said that. You said they were receivers and I said they ran the ball 200 times.

What are you arguing? That you think I said we don’t need to play defense?
Once we decided that we need to throw the ball 40+ and often 50+ times in the post season because we have the greatest weapon ever pulling the trigger, we went from 4-5 over 5 post seasons to 9-2 in 4 with 3 trips to the Sb and 2 championships.

You said they lesson for all us fans is to put the ball in Tom's hands. My response is that is 1/2 the equation to winning SBs.[/QUOTE]

 

[Uptown]

...Cut him.

 

[Uptown]

Apologies if already posted.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, yea...hes the GOAT but again you are ignoring the talent in this backfield and the lesser quality and depth at receiver and TE. Less for Tom to work with this year.

You are severely overrating the rushing talent in the backfield.
We aren’t controlling games with the run.
Why do you think we run so many wr runs?

Agree but again they didn't have a RB like Sony.

Except for 2015, we pretty much have.

I never said that. You said they were receivers and I said they ran the ball 200 times.

They ARE mostly receivers. Actually I said White was a receiver. Do you think we are going to line up and pound the ball with him?
I said Burkhead was a better receiver than runner. That’s not disputable. He is averaging 3.3 a carry and its obvious watching him he has terrible instincts as a ball carrier.
Patterson literally is a receiver.

You said they lesson for all us fans is to put the ball in Tom's hands. My response is that is 1/2 the equation to winning SBs.

[/QUOTE]
Yes, the offensive half.
The defense was as good from 09-13 as it has been from 14- now.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are severely overrating the rushing talent in the backfield.
We aren’t controlling games with the run.
Why do you think we run so many wr runs?

Except for 2015, we pretty much have.

They ARE mostly receivers. Actually I said White was a receiver. Do you think we are going to line up and pound the ball with him?
I said Burkhead was a better receiver than runner. That’s not disputable. He is averaging 3.3 a carry and its obvious watching him he has terrible instincts as a ball carrier.
Patterson literally is a receiver.

Lets be clear, I am not saying we become the 1978 NEP.

Michel is the best running back this team has had since Corey Dillon. He is the lead RB.

Why would we pound the rock with White when they have Sony? I don't understand? You know thats not how they operate.

Why do they use the WR on runs. Maybe they have the personnel to pull it off?

Yes, the offensive half.
The defense was as good from 09-13 as it has been from 14- now.

You think the 09-13 D is as good as 14-18? Really?

 

[TBR]

Those numbers included Josh Gordon. Hes no longer with the team. Things are different now.

No they aren’t.

Gordon was on pace to be the team's leading WR. Without him, things are indeed different. You claim otherwise?

 

[Ring 6]

Lets be clear, I am not saying we become the 1978 NEP.

Michel is the best running back this team has had since Corey Dillon. He is the lead RB.

Why would we pound the rock with White when they have Sony? I don't understand? You know thats not how they operate.

I don’t know, you are the one saying white is part of the reason we are going to be run heavy.

Why do they use the WR on runs. Maybe they have the personnel to pull it off?

Or they can’t run consistently with a traditional running game.

You think the 09-13 D is as good as 14-18? Really?

Pretty similar.

 

[Ring 6]

Gordon was on pace to be the team's leading WR. Without him, things are indeed different. You claim otherwise?

As far as how they will approach the playoffs, no. This team has never changed its approach over one guy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don’t know, you are the one saying white is part of the reason we are going to be run heavy.

We can agree White is a passing back but I think hes run stronger this year and more often

Or they can’t run consistently with a traditional running game.

Cooks, Hogan and Dorsett did it 13 times last year. In 2016 Jules, Hogs and Bennett did it 17 times.

This year Jules and Dorsett were 13 times but with CP he adds a totally different dimension to it.

Pretty similar.

I think the 2014-2018 Ds are much better vs the pass despite what the numbers say. Better in coverage

 

[Ring 6]

We can agree White is a passing back but I think hes run stronger this year and more often

White does ok on draws and surprises but we aren’t going mire run heavy because of him.

Cooks, Hogan and Dorsett did it 13 times last year. In 2016 Jules, Hogs and Bennett did it 17 times.

This year Jules and Dorsett were 13 times but with CP he adds a totally different dimension to it.

We rely on it, especially again good run defenses.

I think the 2014-2018 Ds are much better vs the pass despite what the numbers say. Better in coverage

Probably but they are similar.
The defense certainly didn’t carry us to sbs.

 

[fnordcircle]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]