Positive Thoughts from Injury Run.

[MTM558]

Entering the season, there were expectations that the offense would struggle early but find its why once Gronkowski returns and the rookies get their feet wet.

On defense, the hope was that they would be able to at least be competitive enough to allow the offense a few mistakes here and there.

Both expectations were met, yet to a much different degree. Offensively, the rookie WRs struggled mightily out of the gate, and Danny Amendola has been unable to stay on the field and contribute in a consistent manner. Shane Vereen was lost to a broken wrist in the first game, and Rob Gronkowski continues to wait it out on the sidelines. Through all the frustrations early on, there are clear signs of progress. The rookies are catching on and starting to make an impact; in Amendola's absence, Edelman and now Austin Collie have stepped up to fill the void. Vereen will be back, and Gronkowski should as well. With a bye week in week 10, the Patriots have a golden opportunity to finish this 3 game stretch on the upswing, and then be reinforced with Shane Vereen and Rob Gronkowski after the bye.

Offensive inconsistency was expected, but made even more difficult because of injury. However, the unit most plagued by injury has been a surprisingly DOMINANT defense.

Vince Wilfork - the heart of this defense - was lost for the season in week 3 to a torn Achilles.

Tommy Kelly soon after suffered a non-contact knee injury.

This past week, Aqib Talib suffered a hip flexor injury, and Jerod Mayo tore his pectoral and is likely out for the season.

In all, that is 2 defensive captains and 2 of this defense's greatest assets against the pass.

The loss of Wilfork and Mayo will be enormous, their leadership irreplaceable... but all is not lost for this unit. The fact that Kelly has not been placed on IR after a week out of action should bode well for his return, and Talib's injury has been reported to be non serious. At Linebacker, Hightower and Spikes remain, and Collins and Fletcher will now have a larger role to fill in pass coverage.

This team has hit some serious roadblocks... but am I the only one who thinks that with good coaching, scheme, and maybe a future addition, both offensively and defensively, this team can continue its run down the stretch?

 

[ALP]

...next man up


we may have the best depth in the league...well this season it appears we're going to need to display that from every single position

 

[mgteich]

OFFENSE

The offense is in fine shape.

The receivers are still not where Brady expects them to be, but the situation is much, much better. Dobson is still dropping balls, but the situation is much, much better. We have a solid set of receivers in Dobson, Thompkins, Edelman and Collie. Hooman is contributing. This unit will be much better with the return of Gronkowski, and eventually Vereen. We even have emergency backups in Mulligan and Boyce (and maybe Harrison).

Ridley is a fine running back. Blount has been serviceable. The running game is in OK shape, and will be in much better shape when Gronkowski is back.

And I say all of this without even mentioning Amendola. The loss of Connolly may be more significant.
===========================

DEFENSE

The defense is again the question mark. We have lost a lot in the last two weeks. We may not quite have enough to go deep into the playoffs; but we will certainly have a shot. If we can really be a top 10 defense without our injured players, then that should be enough to be able to rely on the offense.

The defense was a question mark going into the season. Losing Wilfork and Mayo is huge. It seems that the defense will be fine when Talib is back. We have been counting on production from the rookies: Vellano, Chris Jones, Buchanan, Collins, Ryan and Harmon. And they have ALL produced. And there has been no sophomore slump for last year's producing rookies. Jones, Hightower and Dennard are back strong.

We can hope to have Kelly back, and perhaps add Armstead. Fletcher should get some work.
=======

SPECIAL TEAMS

IMHO, this group is one of the best in the NFL. Belichick has devoted cap money (Gostkowski) and many positions to make this work. We have TOP level people at K, P, PR and gunner. We have many solid special teamers. The only thing that we are lacking is a healthy top kick returner. Belichick continues to use a roster spot on this position (and interesting decision, giving the current rules).
======

COACHING

We have the best overall staff in the NFL. IMHO, Bill and Scar are the best. Josh and Patricia have done so, so much with so, so little. Kudo to the staffs.

QUESTIONING THE ABILITY OF BELICHICK TO PICK DRAFTEES AND UDFA'S
I hope that we have learned something. I suspect that we have not.

 

[supafly]

I think that there have been some positive signs from both sides of the ball through the first 6 weeks for sure. We knew that it'd be a little rough at times, and they didn't let us down in that regard; but as a whole, I see some positive steps being made.

I think that we have a very realistic shot at 12-4 or possibly even 13-3, with a decent shot at a first round bye with the #2 seed.

The next 3 games will be key as we head into the bye week. If we can somehow avoid a loss, 13-3 will be a very realistic target heading down the stretch when the team returns in week #11.

If they drop one of these next 3 to the NYJ, MIA, or PIT, then I think 12-4 is more realistic for an overall record.

As usual, the injury situation may be the only aspect that holds us back, and that is extremely unfortunate.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

At the rate they are getting injuries, the Patriots will be holding open tryouts some time around week 12/13.

Thanks for trying to see the positives, but not too many contending teams have enough depth to be competitive for the post season. the only positive I see, would be the defense has time to adjust to the new dynamics (provided the injury situation pretty much ceases).

Definitely need the offense to continue its progress and become a top 5 offense for the 2nd half of the season. Control ToP and keep the defense rested.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

OFFENSE

The offense is in fine shape.

The receivers are still not where Brady expects them to be, but the situation is much, much better. Dobson is still dropping balls, but the situation is much, much better. We have a solid set of receivers in Dobson, Thompkins, Edelman and Collie. Hooman is contributing. This unit will be much better with the return of Gronkowski, and eventually Vereen. We even have emergency backups in Mulligan and Boyce (and maybe Harrison).

Ridley is a fine running back. Blount has been serviceable. The running game is in OK shape, and will be in much better shape when Gronkowski is back.

And I say all of this without even mentioning Amendola. The loss of Connolly may be more significant.
===========================

DEFENSE

The defense is again the question mark. We have lost a lot in the last two weeks. We may not quite have enough to go deep into the playoffs; but we will certainly have a shot. If we can really be a top 10 defense without our injured players, then that should be enough to be able to rely on the offense.

The defense was a question mark going into the season. Losing Wilfork and Mayo is huge. It seems that the defense will be fine when Talib is back. We have been counting on production from the rookies: Vellano, Chris Jones, Buchanan, Collins, Ryan and Harmon. And they have ALL produced. And there has been no sophomore slump for last year's producing rookies. Jones, Hightower and Dennard are back strong.

We can hope to have Kelly back, and perhaps add Armstead. Fletcher should get some work.
=======

SPECIAL TEAMS

IMHO, this group is one of the best in the NFL. Belichick has devoted cap money (Gostkowski) and many positions to make this work. We have TOP level people at K, P, PR and gunner. We have many solid special teamers. The only thing that we are lacking is a healthy top kick returner. Belichick continues to use a roster spot on this position (and interesting decision, giving the current rules).
======

COACHING

We have the best overall staff in the NFL. IMHO, Bill and Scar are the best. Josh and Patricia have done so, so much with so, so little. Kudo to the staffs.

QUESTIONING THE ABILITY OF BELICHICK TO PICK DRAFTEES AND UDFA'S
I hope that we have learned something. I suspect that we have not.

Good post.

For me the worry isn't so much a single position as is the feeling of impending dread that the tipping point is very close at hand. Remove Wilfork from the DL (and Kelly hurting/out), and remove Mayo from the LB set, at what point is the kind of hot knife through butter type running going to happen too much (like the Saints did to the Pats D in that series or two in the 3rd quarter).
I tell you what, if the Patriots can keep up a high level of defensive play after losing these most incredibly key cogs, is it smoke & mirrors? Witchcraft? Holy intervention? Because it will defy logic for the D to continue playing at a high level with such an untested and unknown middle of the rush D.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I am not overly worried because I have a ridiculous amount of faith in Dane Fletcher. I have for a long time thought he should have at least started a few games over Spikes considering how fast he is. Logan Ryan was a draft binkie of mine so I think he can hold down the fort until Talib comes back.

And I realized years ago that BB will not allow us to get ran over because he will find somebody off the street that can stop the run. Unlike wrs, BB's true talent is identifying overlooked defensive tackles(Mike Wright, Kyle Love, Deadrick, etc).

 

[ausbacker]

I'm concerned and why shouldn't I be? Next man up is a great idea which I subscribe to but a drop off in talent and production is still a drop off. When that drop off runs across the board and in multiple positions, Patricia and Belichick and going to show everyone why they're on the big bucks and we're speaking about their brilliance on forums.

 

[MTM558]

At the rate they are getting injuries, the Patriots will be holding open tryouts some time around week 12/13.

Thanks for trying to see the positives, but not too many contending teams have enough depth to be competitive for the post season. the only positive I see, would be the defense has time to adjust to the new dynamics (provided the injury situation pretty much ceases).

Definitely need the offense to continue its progress and become a top 5 offense for the 2nd half of the season. Control ToP and keep the defense rested.

I would like to point out the Patriots early runs at Super Bowls where they always seemed to lose a starter, or two, or three. Even the Packers in 2010 had like 15 players total and something like 4 starters on IR.

Injuries are a part of the game - everyone faces them at some point. But with good enough QB play and with depth pieces being at least able to look the part, there is always a chance.

More people seem optimistic about the offense than the defense at this point, so let me focus on the defense:

Going into the season, the depth chart looked something like this...

LDE: Rob Ninkovich - Jake Bequette
LDT: Tommy Kelly - A.J. Francis
RDT: Vince Wilfork - Joe Vellano
RDE: Chandler Jones - Michael Buchanan
SLB: Dont'a Hightower - Jamie Collins
MLB: Brandon Spikes - Dane Fletcher
WLB: Jerod Mayo - Steve Beauharnais
LCB: Aqib Talib - Kyle Arrington
SS: Steve Gregory - Tavon Wilson
FS: Devin McCourty - Duron Harmon
RCB: Alfonzo Dennard - Logan Ryan

Out of that bunch, Wilfork is lost for the season, and Mayo likely is also. That's 2 starters and both defensive captains. Huge blow don't get me wrong. But let's look at the situation critically - where were their on-field contributions felt most? In the running game! Yes, without Vince the package with Jones moving to DT and Buchanan working RDE is probably gone, and losing an every down player like Mayo always hurts, but their direct impact in the passing game wasn't that big, and it is for that reason alone the Patriots have hope in this pass happy NFL.

Kelly is hurt, as is Talib. Kelly is not on IR after a week (good sign), and Talib's injury is not believed to be serious (good sign). Even if both of these players are out for another 4 weeks and come back after the bye, they'll still be back this season. Kelly is an amazing 3-tech DT that can stop the run and get after the QB effectively, and Talib is a top 5 CB.

Pass rusher and Lockdown CB vs. Nose Tackle and good-not-great Linebacker? I like my chances here.

I'm not trying to take away from the contributions of Mayo and Wilfork, but Kelly and Talib are more valuable to this team in my opinion given the state of the league. Every player on a 53 man roster is NFL worthy, and it's time for the depth players to step up. It's simple. Will there be rough patches going forward? Absolutely. Hightower and Spikes will see more playing time. Collins and Fletcher as well. There may be some shuffling at CB and S until Talib returns, but he SHOULD return. Armstead could also be coming back.

Give this team time to recover (on offense and defense) and Bill a bye week to sort through it all. These next 3 games may be a little crazy, but I have faith, especially with the offense on track to get a whole lot better.

 

[dales804]

I still believe in this team. Props to the coaching staff and players for getting the job done on their way to a 5-1 start facing all the adversity they have.

 

[BKBroiler]

People seem to forget all of the injuries in 2004. To me, the team this year is playing pretty similarly to that year's team so far (good start to the season, some close games, decent offense with a fairly strong defense, multiple injuries). The question is, will guys like Logan Ryan, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Joe Vellano, and Chris Jones keep it up like Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay, and the rest of the bunch were able to. If so, I'd expect the team to finish anywhere from 12-4 and 14-2.

 

[SVN]

Kinda similar to 2004 . Lost Ty Law for a most of the season and he wasnt there for the colts playoff game. Seymour didnt play down the stretch until the superbowl. But that team had rodney at the back and a LB Crew you could put your life on. This could be a challenge right now for us. Need to scrape a couple of wins before the bye especially the division games.

 

[SVN]

People seem to forget all of the injuries in 2004. To me, the team this year is playing pretty similarly to that year's team so far (good start to the season, some close games, decent offense with a fairly strong defense, multiple injuries). The question is, will guys like Logan Ryan, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Joe Vellano, and Chris Jones keep it up like Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay, and the rest of the bunch were able to. If so, I'd expect the team to finish anywhere from 12-4 and 14-2.

They had Hank Poteat.

 

[brdmaverick]

If we went 11-5 in 2008 with Tom Brady, Rodney Harrison. Laurence Maroney, and Adalius Thomas all on IR, something says hope is not lost for this current crew.

Somehow, the Pats find a way.

 

[Ozymandias]

This team will find a way to get the job done, I can promise you that.

No one in that locker room is hanging their head down, thinking about next season. All they're worried about is stomping the Jets. Adversity is not an excuse.

Next man up, one game at a time. That's the motto.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

I am stunned at what this team has accomplished, and it leaves me with no doubt the Pats run the best ship in football.

That said, how much more can a team take? I don't need to list them, you all know them.

It breaks my heart to think of what the Pats could have accomplished in the last 5 years had they been healthy. In my head I add at least 2 SB rings to the list.

The thing that really kills me is the defense. This unit has really stepped up this year, and hopefully is laying groundwork for the future. I hate to see this derailed by injuries.

I for one would like to get through one game this year where no one important ends up on the IR.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Pass rusher and Lockdown CB vs. Nose Tackle and good-not-great Linebacker? I like my chances here.

I'm not trying to take away from the contributions of Mayo and Wilfork, but Kelly and Talib are more valuable to this team in my opinion given the state of the league. Every player on a 53 man roster is NFL worthy, and it's time for the depth players to step up. It's simple. Will there be rough patches going forward? Absolutely. Hightower and Spikes will see more playing time. Collins and Fletcher as well. There may be some shuffling at CB and S until Talib returns, but he SHOULD return. Armstead could also be coming back.

We agree more than you think. My statement was made on the premise that we continue to get dinged up/lose a couple more players. And I think you underestimate Mayo a little bit. He might not be LT great, but he's better than good. Plus, he is BB's voice on the field and has that intuition for being in the right place (not quite at the Bruschi level, but a still present)

For going forward, the near future schedule does favor us. We have 3 weeks vs opponents, who (A) know us - we know them, (b) are highly winnable in our current situation. The Bye week will be a good time to regroup and get the pieces moving again. Let BB the mad scientist figure out the new defensive scheme/setup/player configuration.

I liked our chances with the defense early in the season. With the losses, I'd say they are not championship caliber, but we'll have to see how we do down the stretch (not giving up, just saying they will most likely regress as coordinators figure out our weaknesses). The offense could be dominant (top 5 in the 2nd half of the season) if it gets healthy (Gronk, Vereen) and stay healthy (Everyone else, kinda not counting on Amedola until much much later...maybe 6 weeks down the road).

if we get a bye week for the playoffs (I have no doubt we'll make the playoffs) or even get 1 win, You'd have to give BB a nod for coach of the year.

 

[AzPatsFan]

OFFENSE

The offense is in fine shape.

The receivers are still not where Brady expects them to be, but the situation is much, much better. Dobson is still dropping balls, but the situation is much, much better. We have a solid set of receivers in Dobson, Thompkins, Edelman and Collie. Hooman is contributing. This unit will be much better with the return of Gronkowski, and eventually Vereen. We even have emergency backups in Mulligan and Boyce (and maybe Harrison).

Ridley is a fine running back. Blount has been serviceable. The running game is in OK shape, and will be in much better shape when Gronkowski is back.

And I say all of this without even mentioning Amendola. The loss of Connolly may be more significant.
===========================

DEFENSE

The defense is again the question mark. We have lost a lot in the last two weeks. We may not quite have enough to go deep into the playoffs; but we will certainly have a shot. If we can really be a top 10 defense without our injured players, then that should be enough to be able to rely on the offense.

The defense was a question mark going into the season. Losing Wilfork and Mayo is huge. It seems that the defense will be fine when Talib is back. We have been counting on production from the rookies: Vellano, Chris Jones, Buchanan, Collins, Ryan and Harmon. And they have ALL produced. And there has been no sophomore slump for last year's producing rookies. Jones, Hightower and Dennard are back strong.

We can hope to have Kelly back, and perhaps add Armstead. Fletcher should get some work.
=======

SPECIAL TEAMS

IMHO, this group is one of the best in the NFL. Belichick has devoted cap money (Gostkowski) and many positions to make this work. We have TOP level people at K, P, PR and gunner. We have many solid special teamers. The only thing that we are lacking is a healthy top kick returner. Belichick continues to use a roster spot on this position (and interesting decision, giving the current rules).
======

COACHING

We have the best overall staff in the NFL. IMHO, Bill and Scar are the best. Josh and Patricia have done so, so much with so, so little. Kudo to the staffs.

QUESTIONING THE ABILITY OF BELICHICK TO PICK DRAFTEES AND UDFA'S
I hope that we have learned something. I suspect that we have not.

he draft critics point at Butler Cunningham and Tate as draft misses, but all are still in the league and palyiing on contendders. Barandon Tate on the game for the Bengals over the Bills with a clutch punt return. Butler si a starting CB on the division leading Colts. Cunnigham is wihtthe 49ers and fillling in in their reiddels Defensiv elline.

So scratch three misses from the DRaftnikss creditability list. I have never understood why listing a few unproductive guys, some lost ot career shortened or or career ending injuries, are somehow attributed to BB lack of talent evaluation.

The real proof of the pudding is the records compiled by the teams BB puts on the field. There are none better.

 

[MTM558]

I thought Mike Loyko's tweets from earlier today were interesting and gave some perspective to the state of this team.

Interesting thing to keep in mind. When I asked about all the young players, was told Bil Belchick looks at this team in a 4 year window ..

As I see it play out I now understand. If they can develop all these young affordable guys and grow over the next 1-2 season and supplement

the team with a few veterans and picks that gives them the best chance to win before Brady retires. I see it unfolding now.

It certainly looks strange to have so many young, rookie, udfa types. But there is a plan in place that could really pay off.

It's a sound plan, and one that also speaks to (indirectly) the importance of depth development.