PFT: High-level executive: "IR issue way bigger than taping"

[otis p. driftwood]

And what he said was an IR violation typically resulted in a fine and that if, in fact, that violation in 2001 turned out to be true, then he felt that the Patriots had already been fined for past transgressions and no new fine would be issued. Your words. That's good enough for me.

sdfan

In that case, why are you continuing this way?

 

[pao]

But he isn't. Just as Fanetic was, he's here to root against us and pile on.And he's proven that time after time.

Bullcrap. How have I "piled on" here? I have even said this whole thing should be over and done with. The Patriots have paid their penalty and it's time to move on. I don't believe there should be asterisks or doubt about the Patriot accomplishments (mostly due to posts on this very board!).

While DaBruinz may have a less than conventional and certainly less than tactful way of evincing that, he has effectively called out Pao in much the same way that Schmessy and others have called out Fanetic as being a "fan" in profession and a troll in action repeatedly.

Give me a break. Show me trollish behavior and I'll apologise for it, otherwise I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

Just because Pao washes your balls every time he posts in the hopes of garnering favor among what appears to be a stalwart on the board, all he's doing is deferring respect to one member here while using it to forward his agenda of hating on the Pats while claiming "fanhood" as a reason.

You have got to be kidding. My compliments are just what they are, an effort to praise those that are willing to discuss somewhat objectively the issue on the table in a clear, concise, manner without trying to degrade the poster beign responded to. Anything else you see is just a mistake on your part. I suggest you take my posts at their word and not try to read anything else into it. You've got nothing to lose. I have complimented others here too and I will continue to when, imo, it is deserved. And frankly, if I was Deus, I'd be insulted by your comments.

But Pao, in the midst of professing his innocence at being a troll, proves himself to be nothing but. He continues to claim his love of football and debate as a reason, and he concedes moot points to try and make himself look fair and balanced, but the points which he feels are most damning he stands behind (much as Fanetic did) in the face of evidence to the contrary. He answers questions which he can, ignores those which undermine his point, and stands on the soapbox of "football rooter" to support his claims in the face of all of the above.

All right, big guy, ask your questions. I'll answer them. You say I avoid questions, bring them on.

You fall for it because he worships at the alter of your argumentative Socratic method, but you're missing the big picture.

Pathetic, just pathetic.

He is a troll. He disguises it well, and has sought out a few people to agree with who argue along the demarcation line of "neutral football fan", but at the end of the day, he's only here to stir the sh!t.

Bullcrap. My intent is to have football discussions with knowledgeable fans. I have my opinions, which, yes, may stir some "sh!t", but that isn't my goal nor my intent. Just because we may disagree, it doesn't make ME a troll. By the way, I'm still waiting for my helmet.

sdfan

 

[Metaphors]

First I would note that I would not ignore anyone, including McGrew. Either they broke the rule or they didn't. Second, it doesn't matter the degree in which a player practicing while on IR is a "difference maker", the rule doesn't say only "difference makers" on IR can't practice. Third, you are too hung up on the "continuously". It doesn't matter within the context of this discussion. Either it is right to allow players to practice on IR or not.

I won't comment on the other stuff in your post since DaBruinz did a fine job already.

Brian Urlacher broke a rule when he wore a Vitamin Water hat at a Super Bowl press conference. He was fined for doing that. Did ESPN rehash that incident with a fleet of former players showing their indignation? Did a "high level executive" of another team comment about how the incident could affect league integrity? Did any former Bears players come out and explain how pimping stuff during league activities from non-sponsors strikes at the heart of the salary cap and revenue sharing?

Nope. Know why? Because if you spend 2 seconds of thought on the incident you can put it in context. Absent context the Urlacher incident is a star player blatently violating a league rule. Just like the "Free Vick" guys in Atlanta. Anyone call them cheaters? Why would they break the rules unless there was some benefit to them? Since that benefit isn't available to everyone, their team has an advantage that could translate to the field.

Anyone with half a brain would call that total lunacy. People should look at the Patriots in context as well and not declare that global warming must somehow be a Belichick plot.

 

[pao]

Unfortunately, what you said and what you meant are two different things.

LOL. Oh, ok.

Also, none of the examples I mentioned were about running a single red light. In fact, none of them were about running a red light. You really need to go back and read the examples I gave because I worded them specifically in the fashion I did because that is how they were meant. They were not meant for you to distort them with your flawed opinion of how they would be applied or not.

You're right, you didn't say run a red light, my bad. But you get my point right? Not trying to distort anything, the point is the same.

Not one single person has been able to show me what how a player who is on IR would actually benefit the team by participating in practice. If anything, it benefits the player.

It would benefit the team because the player on IR doesn't count against the 53 man limit and he is not available to other teams. If he was not on IR and the Patriots didn't have room for him on their 53 man roster they would have to release him making him available to other teams as a free agent. A team could conceivably hide many players with potential on IR and let them practice with the team until they decided either they were good enough to keep or not thereby limiting other team's access to the player and limiting the player's options. I used Wes Welker as an example. The Chargers, instead of trying to hide him on the practice squad where the Dolphins found him, could have put him on the IR and allowed him to practice with the team. This would have prevented Wes from going to the Dolphins and him actually playing that year. That would not have benefitted Wes and his career may not have played out as well as it did, at least not as quickly.

sdfan

 

[Frezo]

1. A team allowing a player to practice while that player is on IR is against the rules.
2. It doesn't matter what team is doing it, it is against the rules.
3. If a team breaks a rule they should be punished.

If you agree with these statements you agree with me, hypocrite or not.

To clarify something that I feel you should have understood when I posted it, but you obviously didn't, I will edit my example that showed a hypocrite could still be right. Here is how it appeared earlier...

1) I post this statement here..."The Patriots are a very good team".
2) I post on the Chargers board or on many boards... "The Patriots suck".

Post #1 is still correct, right?

I didn't mean that I had posted those. I meant if a hypocrite had posted those. Here is a clearer example....

1) A hypocrite posted this statement here..."The Patriots are a very good team".
2) A hypocrite posted on the Chargers board or on many boards... "The Patriots suck".

Post #1 is still correct, right?

Understand now? The Patriots arre still very good even though a hypocrite posted it, right?

sdfan

Well, it's good to see that issue is as clear as glass. You really should post more important info like this.

 

[jmt57]

Just wanted to say congratulations to pao for setting a new patsfans.com off-season record with 47 replies in a single thread!

Way to go, and congratulations on the perseverance and singular focus of beating that dead horse. This off-season workout will surely pay huge dividends come week 6 of this fall's NFL season.

 

[pao]

I won't comment on the other stuff in your post since DaBruinz did a fine job already.

Cool.

Brian Urlacher broke a rule when he wore a Vitamin Water hat at a Super Bowl press conference. He was fined for doing that. Did ESPN rehash that incident with a fleet of former players showing their indignation? Did a "high level executive" of another team comment about how the incident could affect league integrity? Did any former Bears players come out and explain how pimping stuff during league activities from non-sponsors strikes at the heart of the salary cap and revenue sharing?

Nope. Know why? Because if you spend 2 seconds of thought on the incident you can put it in context. Absent context the Urlacher incident is a star player blatently violating a league rule. Just like the "Free Vick" guys in Atlanta. Anyone call them cheaters? Why would they break the rules unless there was some benefit to them? Since that benefit isn't available to everyone, their team has an advantage that could translate to the field.

Anyone with half a brain would call that total lunacy. People should look at the Patriots in context as well and not declare that global warming must somehow be a Belichick plot.

I am not one of those that believes that BB is responsible for global warming. Was Urlacher fined? Vick definitely paid some heavy consequences for his actions. That is all I am saying about the Patriots, and any team for that matter. If they break a rule their should be consequences and once those consequences have been met the issue is over. I am speaking specifically about the IR rule infraction, nothing else.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Just wanted to say congratulations to pao for setting a new patsfans.com off-season record with 47 replies in a single thread!

Way to go, and congratulations on the perseverance and singular focus of beating that dead horse. This off-season workout will surely pay huge dividends come week 6 of this fall's NFL season.

And another great game it will be. Win or lose, it will be thrilling. Two good teams facing off. May the best team win, as it did last year. Did you really count all of my responses??

sdfan

 

[pao]

Way to go, and congratulations on the perseverance and singular focus of beating that dead horse.

LOL. Just read this again and had to give you props. Great sentence! LOL.

sdfan

 

[jmt57]

LOL. Just read this again and had to give you props. Great sentence! LOL.

sdfan

Pathetically, yes, I did.
The new record now stands at 50.
You're half way to the century mark, the Everest of replies in a single thread.

 

[DaBruinz]

LOL. Oh, ok.

You said as much. For you to laugh now shows how much of an idiot you are.

You're right, you didn't say run a red light, my bad. But you get my point right? Not trying to distort anything, the point is the same.

How can the point be the same? You purposely changed the scenarios because you don't fully grasp the situation that involves the Patriots. They weren't taping opponents every game. They weren't using players who were on the IR on a regular basis in practice. Yet, you'd have us believe otherwise. You said so. Oh wait. That's right. What you said wasn't what you meant.

It would benefit the team because the player on IR doesn't count against the 53 man limit and he is not available to other teams. If he was not on IR and the Patriots didn't have room for him on their 53 man roster they would have to release him making him available to other teams as a free agent.

You just don't get it. The extra player who is practicing CAN'T PLAY in the game. So what does it matter? It doesn't. That's the point. That player practicing does NOT provide ANY competitive advantage what so ever. Whether its to the Patriots or any other team that has done it.

A team could conceivably hide many players with potential on IR and let them practice with the team until they decided either they were good enough to keep or not thereby limiting other team's access to the player and limiting the player's options.

No, a team couldn't conceivably hide many players with potential on the IR because there is such a thing as the SALARY CAP. I realize you're new to the world of American Football, but they do have such a thing. And its not like other teams couldn't do the exact same thing.

I used Wes Welker as an example. The Chargers, instead of trying to hide him on the practice squad where the Dolphins found him, could have put him on the IR and allowed him to practice with the team.

Actually, no they couldn't have. Because the player actually has to be injured to be IRed. Also, since you missed it, Welker was on the Chargers and they released him. That's when the Dolphins picked him up.

This would have prevented Wes from going to the Dolphins and him actually playing that year. That would not have benefitted Wes and his career may not have played out as well as it did, at least not as quickly.

sdfan

As for your other garbage, you can't know if it would have benefitted Welker or not to spend time more time developing with the Chargers nor can you say it wouldn't have happened as quickly. For all you know, Welker could have blossomed on the Chargers.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Oooh, got me there. You're so tough, I think I may never post here again. Good thing I'll have that helmet once Zeke sends it to me. I might get hit in the head by big 'ole tough words like yours. It's really cute, though, the way you use those cute little smileys. That takes some of the edge off your meany words.

sdfan

You simply have failed. You are a failure. A complete failure. The word fail
was invented for you. Of all the idiots I have had any dialog with on the
internet, you are the dumbest by far. That is your sole claim to fame, the
village idiot of the internet. Your Supreme Dumbness! Wear it with pride and
honor, you have earned every bit of it.

 

[PatsFan24]

a non story...no proof of it, none. and matt walshs word means nothing

 

[pao]

You said as much. For you to laugh now shows how much of an idiot you are.

I laughed because you had a problem with it. And because I had to clarify it for you. You have a tremendous talent for missing the point.

How can the point be the same? You purposely changed the scenarios because you don't fully grasp the situation that involves the Patriots. They weren't taping opponents every game. They weren't using players who were on the IR on a regular basis in practice. Yet, you'd have us believe otherwise. You said so. Oh wait. That's right. What you said wasn't what you meant.

LOL, really, this is getting funnier as we go. Play your little games, it's not helping. If you didn't understand that's your problem. It's all beside the point anyway. The point is anyone breaking that rule deserves punishment, ANYONE.

You just don't get it. The extra player who is practicing CAN'T PLAY in the game. So what does it matter? It doesn't. That's the point. That player practicing does NOT provide ANY competitive advantage what so ever. Whether its to the Patriots or any other team that has done it.

Who said the advantage had to be in the season he was on IR? Let's face it developing a player while he is on IR is an advantage for the team over teams that aren't doing it (even you have to admit that), especially if it's a good player they would have had to release if they had not put him on IR.

No, a team couldn't conceivably hide many players with potential on the IR because there is such a thing as the SALARY CAP.

Are you kidding me? They could fit 5 players like Wes Welker on their roster, and still be under the cap, if they could get away with it.

I realize you're new to the world of American Football, but they do have such a thing.

Your attempts to insult me are really cute. Low frustration tolerance syndrome maybe?

And its not like other teams couldn't do the exact same thing.

But it's against the rules and all other teams aren't doing the exact same thing!

Actually, no they couldn't have. Because the player actually has to be injured to be IRed.

Oh yeah, that's right, a team that would break the rule about allowing players to practice while on IR wouldn't dream of putting a player that isn't really injured on IR. I'll bet there are teams doing this in the league right now, doesn't make it right.

Also, since you missed it, Welker was on the Chargers and they released him. That's when the Dolphins picked him up.

Another load of buchshot into the bush, eh? The Chargers waived him and offered him a spot on their Practice Squad, he refused and signed with the Dolphins. He had several offers but chose the Dolphins.

As for your other garbage, you can't know if it would have benefitted Welker or not to spend time more time developing with the Chargers nor can you say it wouldn't have happened as quickly. For all you know, Welker could have blossomed on the Chargers.

Come on, you can't be serious. You can't possibly be arguing that Wes would have been better off on the Chargers IR (which was my scenario) than playing for the Dolphins, right?

sdfan

 

[pao]

You simply have failed. You are a failure. A complete failure. The word fail
was invented for you. Of all the idiots I have had any dialog with on the
internet, you are the dumbest by far. That is your sole claim to fame, the
village idiot of the internet. Your Supreme Dumbness! Wear it with pride and
honor, you have earned every bit of it.

Dang, that really hurt my feelings. I think I'll curl up in my Charger blanket and cry after this. I think I'll stop posting here.

sdfan

 

[pao]

a non story...no proof of it, none. and matt walshs word means nothing

Maybe you're right, I doubt it, but maybe.

sdfan

 

[PatriotsReign]

LOL. Just read this again and had to give you props. Great sentence! LOL.

sdfan

pao is just like many in the media who feel THE PATRIOTS MUST be kept in the limelight. For the sake of nothing other than his own obsession with this belief that "The Patriots must pay!!" or even more to the point, "Bill Bellichik Must pay!!"

I say, "Pay for what?" for the 300 millionth time, Belichik & the Patriots have been penalized greatly and that's the end of it.

Like it or not, NOTHING more is going to be found against the Pats or Belichik. So keep expounding all your silly complaints but nothing is going to come of them. ESPN and fans like you can keep this up for the next 5 years as you watch the Patriots continue to be one of the dominant teams in the NFL. I guess some feel that there must be SOME REASON to penalize the Patriots! Hell, just look at how many angry fans around the country agree with you...and the media too! If all these people are as angry as YOU PAO, then surely the Patriots should be penalized....RIGHT?

I hate to break it to you pal, but despite all of the above, IT'S OVER...C'EST FINIT!!

 

[pao]

pao is just like many in the media who feel THE PATRIOTS MUST be kept in the limelight. For the sake of nothing other than his own obsession with this belief that "The Patriots must pay!!" or even more to the point, "Bill Bellichik Must pay!!"

I say, "Pay for what?" for the 300 millionth time, Belichik & the Patriots have been penalized greatly and that's the end of it.

Like it or not, NOTHING more is going to be found against the Pats or Belichik. So keep expounding all your silly complaints but nothing is going to come of them. ESPN and fans like you can keep this up for the next 5 years as you watch the Patriots continue to be one of the dominant teams in the NFL. I guess some feel that there must be SOME REASON to penalize the Patriots! Hell, just look at how many angry fans around the country agree with you...and the media too! If all these people are as angry as YOU PAO, then surely the Patriots should be penalized....RIGHT?

I hate to break it to you pal, but despite all of the above, IT'S OVER...C'EST FINIT!!

Go back and read my posts. I have said numerous times it's over, the Patriots have been punished enough, let's move on. Some here don't want to let it go. I have no interest in keeping the Patriots or BB in the limelight. I do enjoy a good discussion though!

sdfan

 

[HSanders]

I am speaking specifically about the IR rule infraction, nothing else.

sdfan

Let me ask you something then...say you do something in 2005 under one guy's rule and in 2006 you get a new boss. Do you really think it would be fair for the new boss to listen to a couple of remarks from ex co workers (which is all Goodell has on the 2005 violation IIRC, Tucker's comments) then punish you for something you did before he came into power? I don't.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Go back and read my posts. I have said numerous times it's over, the Patriots have been punished enough, let's move on. Some here don't want to let it go. I have no interest in keeping the Patriots or BB in the limelight. I do enjoy a good discussion though!

sdfan

....and yet you make 52 posts on the topic!

You obviously have some deep issues with this topic and Patriots fans in general. You're in denial brother.

EVERY Patriots fan would GLADLY let this go if all the haters would just stop all the BS! pao, even you must agree that there has been a concerted effort by the national media to make sure the Patriots remain in the forefront of NFL fans minds in a purely negative way.

Even you must agree there is NO reason for this to be happening.

Even you must agree that any fan who has jumped on the "I eff'n HATE the Patriots & Bill Belichik!" bandwagon are among the most ignorant fans in the history of the NFL.

Answer these questions directly....

Why has the mainstream U.S. media and NFL fans acted as if they WANTED Matt Walsh to have the goods on the Patriots?

Why have the media and fans acted as if Walsh DID have something on the Patriots when he clearly made an a.s.s. of himself & was exposed to the entire country as an attention seeking liar?

Since Walsh only confirmed that Belichik was upfront with Goodell, why have so many acted as if he was hiding even more than we thought?

Hopefully, YOU aren't one of these idiots!