PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[Ross12]

The Pats do move up, but I think the price will be too high with this draft so strong in the mid-rounds and so weak at the top. Who at the top is a beast? Maybe Will Andersen or Jalen Carter? After that I do not think anyone is worth moving up for.

I was thinking a small trade up, like from 14 to 11 or something to secure a specific player. Probably only if it’s cheap, though.

 

[ralmat55]

Not being blindly loyal to Bill and his stupid, irrational Patricia-Judge decision is not immaturity. It’s just the opposite.

Lombardi and a lot of you are wrong in looking at it that way. Of course, a lot of you have a hard time casting any blame on Bill for anything-. “Oh he’s sorry, we know it and he shouldn’t have to admit it; let’s move on already, but let’s still hold it against the players”. That’s your nonsense.

A 24 year old QB questioning ill-prepared coaches and yelling at them a time or two on the field or sideline is NOT the equivalent of a 70 year old coach with 45 years of coaching experience making such an obvious to everyone reckless mistake that wastes a season and needlessly damaged player’s careers.

 

[Ross12]

Lombardi and a lot of you are wrong in looking at it that way. Of course, a lot of you have a hard time casting any blame on Bill for anything

Not sure why this has become a talking point lately. Who here has said Bill did nothing wrong last year? Feels like a major straw man.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think so. I think BB really likes Mac except for the immaturity element which Mac will grow out of. I think Mac will surprise this year. Mac is one of the guys at Gillette all off-season. The trade stuff is BS. Wait and see ............

Having said that, Mac needs a few more years to peak. Mac is both physically and emotionally immature and 1 year is not enough to overcome those issues. But Mac will surprise in 2023.

It's not sensible to trade Mac. I think BB yes may like Mac, But was agitated with him talking to his Alabama coaches last season. I don't think the trade stuff was BS at all. As I said had a deal that he would have liked come about then Mac wouldn't be here. Mac's going into his 3rd year.. and I don't think immaturity was the issue it was an overload of frustration from last season offensively.. could he have handled it better? sure he could have.. I think Mac is a very mature guy, and he will continue to grow as a player and a leader.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think Mac is a very mature guy, and he will continue to grow as a player and a leader.

Really? How many times was he fined for cheap shots? That is independent video evidence to his immaturity. You didn't see Mac screaming in pain for a high ankle sprain, while Mahomes did no such thing? Again over the top histrionics. Remember Mac waving coaches off while on the field? Did you ever see Brady do that? No, Brady would get upset but only on the sideline, not on the field.

If you think Mac is a very mature guy you must have missed the 2022 season.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I was thinking a small trade up, like from 14 to 11 or something to secure a specific player. Probably only if it’s cheap, though.

I think they can jump to 13 for a 5th, to 12 for a 4th, to 11 (maybe to 10) for a 3rd. If their man is there at 12 and the price is a 4th, I hope they do it.

 

[Ross12]

I think they can jump to 13 for a 5th, to 12 for a 4th, to 11 (maybe to 10) for a 3rd. If their man is there at 12 and the price is a 4th, I hope they do it.

That’s what I’m thinking. The Texans are at 12 and don’t need a LT so seem like an easy trading partner.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That’s what I’m thinking. The Texans are at 12 and don’t need a LT so seem like an easy trading partner.

Plus the Texans are friends and the Jets will likely go OL. The Jets should draft Skoronski IMO because he can play inside until one of their tackles, Becton or Mitchell, get injured. Becton is a very high pick but always injured, so the Jets don't really need a LT because that would be redundant with Becton. So Skoronski gives them flexibility. We need a LT.

 

[Real fan 02]

Really? How many times was he fined for cheap shots? That is independent video evidence to his immaturity. You didn't see Mac screaming in pain for a high ankle sprain, while Mahomes did no such thing? Again over the top histrionics. Remember Mac waving coaches off while on the field? Did you ever see Brady do that? No, Brady would get upset but only on the sideline, not on the field.

If you think Mac is a very mature guy you must have missed the 2022 season.

So your ready to say he's immature becuase of that??? You had 2 plumbers doing an electricians job last season... on offense

Maybe I need to get a new tv.. I saw a mature kid drafted at #15.. his MATURITY and his football IQ is what saban and his coaches raved about. In 2021 was he immature taking his team to the playoffs?

Do you get a chance to catch much patriots football? I can't sit here and dump on the the kid for last season. So he's still with this organization amid reports? So is he to immature to be traded? Brady had plenty of fits.. the GOAT had enough clout to do so.. Mac's still growing into a NFL qb.. I just wish people would give the kid a break on the immature BS.. he's a starting QB for a proud franchise.

 

[Real fan 02]

Really? How many times was he fined for cheap shots? That is independent video evidence to his immaturity. You didn't see Mac screaming in pain for a high ankle sprain, while Mahomes did no such thing? Again over the top histrionics. Remember Mac waving coaches off while on the field? Did you ever see Brady do that? No, Brady would get upset but only on the sideline, not on the field.

If you think Mac is a very mature guy you must have missed the 2022 season.

@One-If-By-Sea

I typically like your post and agree with mostly... but I did mention yes he could have handled some things better.. but he's still growing as qb.. last season would have frustrated any QB.. just saying...

 

[RodThePat]

@One-If-By-Sea

I typically like your post and agree with mostly... but I did mention yes he could have handled some things better.. but he's still growing as qb.. last season would have frustrated any QB.. just saying...

Do you believe Trevor Lawrence, a guy that has been ranked the best QB in the country for his age class since he basically started high school, had reason to be frustrated over being coached by one of the most disastrous experiments in recent NFL history, watching his HC stuffing his hands down the pants of women at bars after not returning on the same plane as the team and kicking players on the practice field? Because I do. Did you hear a peep over him being anything but a model pro in Jacksonville? I didn't.

The fact of the matter is most rookie QBs selected at the top of the first round are put into terrible situations, a lot of them in much worse situations than Mac Jones had to contend with last year. Mac at least had Bill, what does Justin Fields have? Or even Zach Wilson, is anyone out there talking about how Wilson's immaturity is understandable? That's the reality for those guys in the league: you're drafted into bad teams and shoulder a ton of expectations. Mac is in a historically good situation for guys picked at his spot, not in a historically bad one as this board loves to suggest.

All of a sudden Bill doesn't really matter the coordinators run the show. If the OC is terrible, then having Bill does nothing for players on that side of the ball. Funny how that's the narrative now: Bill is a defense only coach that's a cerimonial figure on offense. We're just burying 20 years of "Bill is the guy behind everything, he's the only HC that can coach anything" to protect... Mac Jones? What has Mac Jones done for this team?

 

[Real fan 02]

Do you believe Trevor Lawrence, a guy that has been ranked the best QB in the country for his age class since he basically started high school, had reason to be frustrated over being coached by one of the most disastrous experiments in recent NFL history, watching his HC stuffing his hands down the pants of women at bars after not returning on the same plane as the team and kicking players on the practice field? Because I do. Did you hear a peep over him being anything but a model pro in Jacksonville? I didn't.

The fact of the matter is most rookie QBs selected at the top of the first round are put into terrible situations, a lot of them in much worse situations than Mac Jones had to contend with last year. Mac at least had Bill, what does Justin Fields have? Or even Zach Wilson, is anyone out there talking about how Wilson's immaturity is understandable? That's the reality for those guys in the league: you're drafted into bad teams and shoulder a ton of expectations. Mac is in a historically good situation for guys picked at his spot, not in a historically bad one as this board loves to suggest.

All of a sudden Bill doesn't really matter the coordinators run the show. If the OC is terrible, then having Bill does nothing for players on that side of the ball. Funny how that's the narrative now: Bill is a defense only coach that's a cerimonial figure on offense. We're just burying 20 years of "Bill is the guy behind everything, he's the only HC that can coach anything" to protect... Mac Jones? What has Mac Jones done for this team?

Absolutely I agree 100% and what your saying is sensible. I feel what the issues were is that last season was an experiment. BB Absolutely no one can contest he's the GOAT HC no doubt about it. BB made those decisions based on Mac's abilities he showed as a rookie.. he openly praised Mac's progress and how he's grown last offseason and yes that means maturity. Joe Judge was more of a problem from the herald reports so bad that BB had to get involved and chastise Judge. Mac grew tired and yes he could have handled the situation better Absolutely. But we live and we learn. He's still a good qb and deserves this season to redeem himself and take this team back to the playoffs. To your point yes Trevor Lawrence was in a terrible situation his rookie season!

 

[RodThePat]

Absolutely I agree 100% and what your saying is sensible. I feel what the issues were is that last season was an experiment. BB Absolutely no one can contest he's the GOAT HC no doubt about it. BB made those decisions based on Mac's abilities he showed as a rookie.. he openly praised Mac's progress and how he's grown last offseason and yes that means maturity. Joe Judge was more of a problem from the herald reports so bad that BB had to get involved and chastise Judge. Mac grew tired and yes he could have handled the situation better Absolutely. But we live and we learn. He's still a good qb and deserves this season to redeem himself and take this team back to the playoffs. To your point yes Trevor Lawrence was in a terrible situation his rookie season!

Don't get me wrong, I thought the decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense was absolutely moronic from the jump and obviously impacted Mac's development. I just also believe Mac never gave it a chance to work. He didn't respect those guys for a minute, never bought into the plan. And I guess when you're coming from being coached by Sarkesian/Saban and McDaniels you know what good offense looks like, but as a second year player that's by default in a leadership position due to playing QB, I also believe it's your responsibility to not only try your best to follow coaching, but to provide incentive for the other guys to follow suit. If it's a disaster, it's a disaster, but he gave it no chance.

Mac is on a team, and both himself and this fanbase for some reason believe the primary concern of the Patriots should be his development and advancing his career, not winning as many games as possible. Just deal with your frustrations, who among us has never gone to work under the belief that their boss is an utter moron at some point? Doesn't mean you're going to scream at them from across the office. Suck it up, if you have issues, go straight to Bill and even Robert if you have that pull.

 

[borg]

I feel what the issues were is that last season was an experiment.

An experiment ?
With a $200+ million roster ?

NONSENSE

Belichick has had one of the smallest coaching staffs in the NFL in recent years.
His tiny staff has been chocked full of entrenched bobos and offspring leaving very few opportunities for promotion within.
His stubborness/reluctance to give out job titles and elevate pay compelled qualified coaches/execs to flee Foxborough.
BB was not prepared to replace OC, OLC, front office (Patricia was charged with all 3), etc.
BB took his eye off the ball in terms of staffing with no bullpen in place resulting in the malpractice we saw last year.
It wasn't an experiment.
Belichick had no contingencies in place within the organization and instead of scouring the Earth for qualified replacements he instinctively opted for discount bobos.

I wonder the financial arrangement BB has with Kraft.
Could it be possible Kraft gives BB a "staff" budget, and in BB's contract it states BB can keep for himself the unspent surplus.
It sure feels that way considering his disdain for higher paying coordinator titles and his lust for securing failed FOB still getting paid by other teams.

 

[Real fan 02]

An experiment ?
With a $200+ million roster ?

NONSENSE

Belichick has had one of the smallest coaching staffs in the NFL in recent years.
His tiny staff has been chocked full of entrenched bobos and offspring leaving very few opportunities for promotion within.
His stubborness/reluctance to give out job titles and elevate pay compelled qualified coaches/execs to flee Foxborough.
BB was not prepared to replace OC, OLC, front office (Patricia was charged with all 3), etc.
BB took his eye off the ball in terms of staffing with no bullpen in place resulting in the malpractice we saw last year.
It wasn't an experiment.
Belichick had no contingencies in place within the organization and instead of scouring the Earth for qualified replacements he instinctively opted for discount bobos.

I wonder the financial arrangement BB has with Kraft.
Could it be possible Kraft gives BB a "staff" budget, and in BB's contract it states BB can keep for himself the unspent surplus.
It sure feels that way considering his disdain for higher paying coordinator titles and his lust for securing failed FOB still getting paid by other teams.

Lol I can't say your wrong my friend

 

[Rob0729]

Don't get me wrong, I thought the decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense was absolutely moronic from the jump and obviously impacted Mac's development. I just also believe Mac never gave it a chance to work. He didn't respect those guys for a minute, never bought into the plan. And I guess when you're coming from being coached by Sarkesian/Saban and McDaniels you know what good offense looks like, but as a second year player that's by default in a leadership position due to playing QB, I also believe it's your responsibility to not only try your best to follow coaching, but to provide incentive for the other guys to follow suit. If it's a disaster, it's a disaster, but he gave it no chance.

Mac is on a team, and both himself and this fanbase for some reason believe the primary concern of the Patriots should be his development and advancing his career, not winning as many games as possible. Just deal with your frustrations, who among us has never gone to work under the belief that their boss is an utter moron at some point? Doesn't mean you're going to scream at them from across the office. Suck it up, if you have issues, go straight to Bill and even Robert if you have that pull.

From reporting, virtually all the players didn't buy into the system right away. Supposedly Hoyer is gone because he knew the offense was going to be a disaster right away and was vocal about it and he has been with Belichick on and off for well over a decade. And that would explain why he got what looked to be a minor concusion in the fourth game of the season, put on IR, and never reactivated from it.

But if we are going to kill Mac for not buying in, we gotta be happy they shipped Meyers out of here for be insubordinate and publicly questiong the coaching staff. And we have to kill Bourne and several other players who spoke out. And how about Trent Brown who totally quit because the offense was so bad?

And who said that Mac or the fanbase thinks the Patriots' primary concern is to advance his career. At this point, Jones would be happy if Belichick showed a little concern about not destroying his career like he has been doing over the last year. Never once did Mac ever intimate that winning wasn't a priority for him or that he wanted the Patriots to focus on advancing his career. That is speculation your part. My guess is Mac wants to win as much or more than Belichick (since I question his desire to win after his moves last year) and his frustration stem from the fact that they couldn't win with that crap offense.

But you seem to be giving Belichick a free pass. Why aren't we questioning his motivations like you are with Jones? In an important year of young QB's development, he decided to put two guys with no offensive experience in place in the most important coaching jobs on offense because he was comfortable with them and not that they were the most qualified. And when these coaches couldn't grasp the offense, they created a new simpilier offense that suited them but didn't fit the strengths of the players they had and was not designed to put them in the best position to win. Belichick last year made coaching moves that were best for him and not the New England Patriots. Yet everyone still kills Mac Jones for his attitude.

 

[Real fan 02]

Don't get me wrong, I thought the decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense was absolutely moronic from the jump and obviously impacted Mac's development. I just also believe Mac never gave it a chance to work. He didn't respect those guys for a minute, never bought into the plan. And I guess when you're coming from being coached by Sarkesian/Saban and McDaniels you know what good offense looks like, but as a second year player that's by default in a leadership position due to playing QB, I also believe it's your responsibility to not only try your best to follow coaching, but to provide incentive for the other guys to follow suit. If it's a disaster, it's a disaster, but he gave it no chance.

Mac is on a team, and both himself and this fanbase for some reason believe the primary concern of the Patriots should be his development and advancing his career, not winning as many games as possible. Just deal with your frustrations, who among us has never gone to work under the belief that their boss is an utter moron at some point? Doesn't mean you're going to scream at them from across the office. Suck it up, if you have issues, go straight to Bill and even Robert if you have that pull.

Looking at it in hindsight.. I believe that Mac did try to buy in. If you look back at the beginning at camp he was optimistic about the offense as it was termed easier and being able to have guys react quicker and allow a guy like jannu to maximize his abilities. We know how that went!

Having a guy like judge in your ear talking as if he knew the offense and swearing and being a hardo with no pedigree outside a ST coach and a failed HC he wasn't respected and taken seriously. So getting injured, zappe, being pulled from the bears game. I feel all that boiled over on the kid and he reacted that way.

So mysteriously with everything that's transpired during the off season I think its going to fuel Mac. I think he'll have a great season and get the team in the playoffs when anything can happen. But yeah I understand what you're saying. The kid is a good QB he needs to play well and get on the path to becoming a great pro and stack up wins for this team.

 

[Love The Drake]

Just saw a mock where Levis drops to 16 I’m sorry if he is there at 14 you have to take him and trade Mac.

Too much natural ability sit him and let Zappe cook.

 

[Rob0729]

As to whether Jones prioritized winning, the reported reason Belichick is so upset with him, he was calling Alamaba looking for advice to fix the offense. Not to salvage his career. To fix the offense.

 

[Love The Drake]

As to whether Jones prioritized winning, the reported reason Belichick is so upset with him, he was calling Alamaba looking for advice to fix the offense. Not to salvage his career. To fix the offense.

Zappe ran that same offense albeit with more play action concepts thrown in very effectively.
It’s a tough one.
The last few weeks Jones was very accurate.
However pocket movement, feeling the rush and clutchness was all way under par.

It’s hard to put all that on Patricia and Judge.
Now to be fair the O line played the most undisciplined under prepared I have seen in the BB era.

So I can buy Mac didn’t trust his protections, his audibles or his coaches vision.
However at some point natural ability and awareness should show itself.
Mac was backing up when there was no pressure and hurried his reads when he had time.
He hesitated to run for simple gains of fear of reinjuring himself.
His lack of arm talent showed up big when teams just clogged the intermediate passing routes daring Mac to beat them deep,
They didn’t respect our big play ability.
Now on one hand I can blame the WRs but when your own head coach said we didn’t go for the long pass cause we didn’t think the ball would get there.

I don’t think defenses are thinking any differently.
Or that the time it takes the ball to reach its destination the safety or d back can make up the yardage easily.