PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[Mcp1982]

A team source also told McKenna that "there was an issue in 2021 with Jones struggling after getting yelled at."

Report: Pats coaches were instructed to not be too hard on Mac

Patriots coaches reportedly were instructed not to be too hard on Mac Jones during the quarterback’s struggles “in an effort to protect him from being too critical of himself.”

www.nbcsports.com

Team source like Matt Patricia? Mac probably struggled after being yelled at to throw to the wrong read over and over again because his OC was a DC, who unlike Saban, doesn't carry the credibility to scream like an infant even though he's wrong

 

[Mcp1982]

Team source like Matt Patricia? Mac probably struggled after being yelled at to throw to the wrong read over and over again because his OC was a DC, who unlike Saban, doesn't carry the credibility to scream like an infant even though he's wrong

Note that no one said this in 2021, all the references to 2021 came out after the shet show that was the 2022 offense. Wonder who would leaked info like that, I have no idea

 

[Huckleberry1]

photo of cam newton wanting to be the back up here

Actually I was responding to Triumphs post about him cleaning the restroom and overhearing. BOB’s cousin telling the guy at the counter in Cumberland Farms that Mac Jones was a “ back up on a bad team.” But it got lost in translation.

 

[Ross12]

Why did NBC post this meme lol

 

[Real fan 02]

I mentioned quite a number of pages back that my gut tells me the leak came from Mac's camp (and some deduction based on comments made by Doug Kyed on his podcast). If it did, then consider the timing here - Bill is asked about Mac at the league meetings and he responds that Mac will have to compete with Zappe. A week later, Mac's camp essentially leaks that Mac has been and is available for trade, and that Bill doesn't even want him so you can probably get him for cheap! Says something about he feels about things... if that is indeed what happened, anyway.

It's definitely sensible, and I feel as well it came from Mac's camp. His people likely leaked it to florio. So as you eloquently put makes all the sense why no refute or statement made from the team.

At this point wouldn't it just make sense to allow Mac who I feel is a good QB and can become great in the right circumstances. We needed an OC anyway so BOB was needed with or without Mac. So my thinking is if Mac's traded it likely has to be to the 9ners, as Shanahan wanted him on draft day. So would a Lance for Mac trade.

As for my I like Mac and think the kid needs another shot this season personally.. but if, just if Mac truly wants I out then I'd ab like Lance. Ultra athletic, smart, hard working and has a cannon for an arm.

 

[catent]

Team source like Matt Patricia? Mac probably struggled after being yelled at to throw to the wrong read over and over again because his OC was a DC, who unlike Saban, doesn't carry the credibility to scream like an infant even though he's wrong

We don’t know who the team source is. If you wish to assume it’s a particular person in order to double-down on your perception of the situation, that’s your prerogative.

Of course, your perception still operates under the assumption there were no issues in 2021, and that these issues stem exclusively from the 2022 season and are wholly contingent on the quality of the coaching and not the type of coaching (even though the report says otherwise).

Maybe it’s bunk. Maybe it’s ironclad truth. Maybe the answer is somewhere in between. Clearly you feel a particular way.

 

[Mcp1982]

Maybe the reporting is entirely wrong, sure. Or maybe it’s accurate.

It’s also perfectly possible that Jones struggled with the coaching he received at Alabama at times, too. You seem to be working under the assumption that there were no issues in that regard, but I’m not sure that’s an accurate assumption to make. Just because he was successful doesn’t necessarily mean he had zero issues with the feedback/coaching he received.

Things aren’t always binary, humans are complex (particularly human psychology).

I think you have to look at totality of situation. BB without Brady has an average record. 2021 went very well, Mac looks like a keeper. BB pulls a move he could pull off with Brady and get away with, ie having a DC be an OC because hes a BB guy. Doesn't work out. Suddenly leaks about Jones having coachability issues. Bb quips what gives him confidence, the last 25yrs. I have been a pats fan for 30 years, but this is behavior that you see with a dysfunctional team, not the Pata

 

[crawhammer]

The Patriots right now are WAY more talented than the 2020 version, more talented than the 2021 version, and more talented than the 2022 version (not even counting repairing the coaching after the Josh-led purge of the 21-22 offseason). That is the bottom line.

2020 = 7-9
2021 = 10-8
2022 = 8-9

Pretty much the same results. The jury is still out on the talent level being higher right now. TBD.

The top-top QBs in the NFL right now are Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, maybe the Ghost of Aaron Rodgers, who is certainly not long for the league.
Big drop off to Herbert, imo, who I think is a pretty bridesmaid and never a bride.

You named the top 3 QBs in the NFL so of course they're better than everyone else. But the remaining list of true franchise QBs is a lot longer than just Rodgers and Herbert. Add Hurts, Jackson, Watson, Lawrence, Murray, Cousins, Stafford, Tua, Dak, and Fields. Perhaps Geno, Goff, and Carr as well? We'll see too if Payton doesn't rejuvenate Wilson.

You talk like it's New England's fault for not "getting" a top QB - the rarest bird out there. You talk like top QBs happen in a vacuum - just go get one! Doesn't work like that, and if you look at the list below, you'll see it doesn't have to, because when people talk about needing that elitest of QBs, they're never taking into consideration the aberration of the last 23 seasons: the New England Patriots. Excise them from the list of SB winnres for a moment and look at the winning QBs:

ELITE:
Mahomes twice
Rodgers (SB 45)
Manning (First time)
Brees

BORDERLINE:
Roethlisberger (Twice)

Not ELITE:
Stafford
Foles
The Ghost of Peyton Manning
Wilson
Flacco
Eli (twice)
Brad Johnson
And Trent Dilfer the year before Brady

Sorry, your argument isn't valid when you remove the QB who won 30% of the Super Bowls over the last 23 years. Especially considering he did it with 100% roster turnover in New England and finally with a different franchise. Add in the other elite QBs you're conceding and you're up to 52%.

Roethlisberger is a HOF QB... does that count as elite?

Eli will get HOF consideration. Personally I'm not putting him in the HOF but he beat the Patriots twice, he played great in his two SB postseasons, and overall he was an excellent postseason QB.

Flacco had one of the best postseason runs of any QB in the history of the league in 2012.

You're underrating Russell Wilson. He may have choked in SB 49 but he was an elite franchise QB in Seattle.

Peyton 50, Brad Johnson, and Dilfer all won with historically great defenses (which is much rarer than elite QBs over the last 23 years).

Consider all QB participants in the SB over the last 23 years and then your argument really falls apart because you're adding Brady x3, Peyton x2, Warner x2, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Ryan (in an MVP season), Gannon (in an MVP season), etc.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Why did NBC post this meme lol

I have no idea. I always considered it a Patsfans inside joke, but when I googled it that came up.

 

[Kasmir]

Saban throws tantrums as a default, and can get away with anything down there, yet Mac did well. It isn't about getting yelled at, it's the fact that BB basically destroyed a year of his professional career hiring his buddy to do a job he couldn't do, while Saban has a set of NFL quality OCs rotating through Alabama

If our Alabama posters are still here -- I suspect they might have recoiled in disgust -- perhaps they could comment usefully on a lot of this. I recall the incident where Mac as scout team QB was yelled at by Saban for being a try-hard, and he yelled back that his defense should play better.

Saban may be a hard-ass, but my guess is that BB is a lot surlier. And he's protective of his cronies to a fault, so if snot-nosed Mac was dissing his buddy boys he'd likely get really pissed.

 

[Kasmir]

I know there are other factors out of his control, but here are the QBs drafted in the last 2 years with the same or more 4th Quarter comebacks or Game winning drives than Mac's 1:

Pickett: 4
Ridder: 1
Skylar: 1
Purdy: 2

Lawrence: 6
ZWilson: 3
Fields: 2
DMills: 3

Bit of a sample size problem don't you think? And are you really blaming Mac for the winning drives that were ended by fumbles, bad calls or missed FG's? I can recall at least 3 games that he set them up for wins but were ended by others.

And seriously man, would you prefer Wilson or Mills to Mac? That's insane. I know lots of folks are high on Fields, but he was more of an RB than a QB last year and was dead last in DVOA as a passer. Mac sucked last year but his DVOA was closer to Burrow and Brady than it was to Fields.

2022 Quarterbacks | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[Bill Lee]

Hmmm, let's see who this triggers...

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Bill also has a ShopVac

 

[Real fan 02]

So what, Saban calmly whispered in Macs ear when he made a mistake? I'd get the issue if Jones came from like an Andy Reid type environment, but he didn't, the idea he just suddenly couldn't take hard coaching makes. No sense to me

Agree, Mac publicly stated he wanted to be coached hard!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill also has a ShopVac

LOL. There is no scenario I envision BB using a ShopVac.

 

[n1997y]

Agree, Mac publicly stated he wanted to be coached hard!

Mac Jones details why he wants to be coached harder by Patriots coaches

“We understand it’s us the player. We have to trust the coaches, which we are. They put a lot of hard work into it. That’s what we have to do. It’s a player’s game. We want to come together and play together.”

 

[Jim Beankie]

Bit of a sample size problem don't you think? And are you really blaming Mac for the winning drives that were ended by fumbles, bad calls or missed FG's? I can recall at least 3 games that he set them up for wins but were ended by others.

And seriously man, would you prefer Wilson or Mills to Mac? That's insane. I know lots of folks are high on Fields, but he was more of an RB than a QB last year and was dead last in DVOA as a passer. Mac sucked last year but his DVOA was closer to Burrow and Brady than it was to Fields.

2022 Quarterbacks | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

Whoever's starting or playing, that's whom I'm backing. I don't have a preference at this point. Just presented this data point and did preface it with "factors out of his control." What surprised me is that he has the same number as QBs like Ridder or Skylar who've only had 3 or 4 starts to Mac's 32.

 

[PatsSince74]

“I got the horse right here, the name is Paul Revere…

…the morning works were fine…the jockey’s brother’s a friend of mine.”

 

[catent]

If our Alabama posters are still here -- I suspect they might have recoiled in disgust -- perhaps they could comment usefully on a lot of this. I recall the incident where Mac as scout team QB was yelled at by Saban for being a try-hard, and he yelled back that his defense should play better.

Saban may be a hard-ass, but my guess is that BB is a lot surlier. And he's protective of his cronies to a fault, so if snot-nosed Mac was dissing his buddy boys he'd likely get really pissed.

“Protective of his cronies to a fault”

Yes, so protective that the two “cronies” you reference have either been demoted or entirely let go.

Go ahead and figure that one out.

How did we manage to get from: “Mac reportedly struggled with hard coaching going back to 2021, his rookie season” … to this?

 

[Real fan 02]

Mac Jones details why he wants to be coached harder by Patriots coaches

The notion that He can't handle tough coaching is laughable.. he earned his way into becoming a starter for saban and for BB.. seeing him today doing public appearances in his jersey he looked happy..

I just want to see how the offense looks this season..