PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[n1997y]

I’ve got to cut back on the drinking, I must have blanked out and the missed the time when Mac became a superstar QB.

It happened while you were out taking a wiz

 

[DarrylS]

If anything this rumor was started simply to light a fire under Mac's ass...
Other than that is just off season jibber jabber that has no reality...

 

[Bill Lee]

One thing I don't get is why Belichick is being so adversarial to Jones. His future is tied to Jones. If Jones fails this year and the team fails to make the playoffs again, Belichick will be gone too. If Belichick trades away Jones and he doesn't make the playoffs, he is fired.

It seems that Kraft is firmly behind Jones. Odds are Kraft will not sign off on a Jones trade without a viable replacement. That isn't Zappe and a high draft pick rookie. That would mean getting Lamar Jackson or another top QB. I am not sure Kraft would accept a Garoppolo trade since he would be a short term rebuild solution.

It seems pretty clear that Jones will be here this upcoming season and Belichick's future with the team is tied to his success or failure. If I was Belichick, I would be doing everything to put Jones in the best position to succeed and that would be not creating a controversy that he wants to get rid of Jones and saying the QB job is an open competition. But unfortunately, this is in line with the incredible missteps Belichick has been making in recent years. He has done everything possible over the last year and a half to ruin Mac Jones.

I guess the MP/JJ fiasco means a lot of people just won't give BB any benefit of the doubt.

It just seems people have decided BB has forgotten everything he's learned about developing players, and he's willing to do ego-driven things like (according to Mike Florio) trade away a young, valuable player just because (according to Chris Sims) Mac reached out for advise to some former coaches.

I don't think BB is doing everything he can do to ruin Mac. I also don't think he should do as you suggest and proclaim Mac as starter now. If so, what do you do if Mac stinks it up during training camp for some unknown reason? You've just painted yourself into a corner for no good reason. Personally, I doubt Mac needs the kind of validation people suggest he needs. He's had to fight for playing time his whole career, this is nothing new to him.

BB may be wrong on his approach, but is the one that's been in the meetings with Mac for two years now, and he's the one with decades of coaching experience, and VInce Lombardi ain't walking through that door.

As you suggest, Mac isn't going anywhere, and neither is BB. Personally, I think the "tension" thing is over-blown. Personally I think it is both of their interests to have a good working relationship, and I believe they are both mature enough to find a way to have a good working relationship.

Personally I don't think it is like media wants to present things, i.e. BB is pissed at Mac for talking to other coaches so he's working on trading him. I don't see how that is in either side's interest. BB needs a QB, Mac does not want to be traded away after a poor season, it will devalue the rest of his entire career.

I do see how it is in the media's interest to present things this way. They've stitched together this narrative on next-to-no evidence and have generated massive amount of clicks thus a lot of ad revenue. Follow the money.

 

[n1997y]

BB may be wrong on his approach, but is the one that's been in the meetings with Mac for two years now, and he's the one with decades of coaching experience, and VInce Lombardi ain't walking through that door.

Vince Lombardi ain’t walking through that door, but a lot of trophies bearing his likeness have walked through the doors of Patriot Place. BB has not only been there for them, he’s been in other stadiums when it’s happened there too.

 

[Love The Drake]

Mac for zach Wilson.

Imagine the soap operas.
Problem world be we would trade Wilson as soon he looks at Linda or Krafts wife.

 

[Toofy]

BB is committed to the NE Patriots, not Mac Jones. Not hard to understand. No idea why you think BB should "feel" good for Mac. Mac has to earn the starting job.

Mac has to earn his position here or on any other team. Put up with what? You are off the edge. This is not about BB, it is about Mac earning his starting job, but now it is obvious why you think BB should be nice to Mac - your BB hate is leaking through.

You are now in full excuse mode for Mac and hate mode for BB. Too bad you can not let the QB competition play out and see what happens, but you have to "hate" instead.

Sorry I don't hate bill. At the same time I am not willing to excuse bill for what he did last year . The blame is on both sides and I don't want to give bill a free pass for it. We should just move on and use this year to gauge Mac rather than moving on because he sought outside counsel . That seems like you poke me I gouge out both your eyes , extremely immature.

If by mid season zappe wins it so be it, but to let go of your first round pick because bill felt slighted is not on.

I love pats and bill , but I am not a blind homer and believe in bills philosophy of moving 1 year early. But if Mac gets moved on for reaching out to outside counsel , then my view is bill has lost his fastball and needs to move out as well .

Everyone's mental acumen declines as they age and looks like bill is no exception to it either .

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Albert Breer, of all people, with a reasonable take. This is from yesterday, sorry if I missed it but don’t remember seeing it posted.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/04/05/mac-jones-patriots-mailbag-belichick-shopping-jalen-carter-draft

To summarize his view for those who reached their article limit:

- he reached out to the teams Florio listed and got denials from all but one. That one non-denial said they discussed Jones, but he wasn’t being “shopped” to them, just assessing value and hypotheticals.
- teams do this all the time for most players except for the untouchables.
- that said, the fact that Jones isn’t considered an untouchable by Belichick does say something.
- he re-emphasized that Belichick wasn’t happy with how Jones handled the mess last year.
- doesn’t expect Mac to actually be traded at this point.
- implies, but doesn’t exactly say, that the Florio report may have been leaked by Belichick’s camp as a way of putting Mac on notice to get with the program.

 

[Real fan 02]

The problem for Belichick is that Belichick is a short term solution for this team right now. At his age, there is no guarantee that he will be the head coach here for more than two seasons even if he is successful. Jones could potentially still be the QB for the next decade. Not so sure that Kraft would side with Belichick in a divorce. Kraft has already said to NFL Network that Mayo is the potential heir apparent to Belichick (only published on their website, but didn't release the video although Bedard was there and can attest to him saying it on camera). And Kraft has never even slightly entertained a head coach after Belichick before.

Yes, I did hear of that in wich you mentioned about RK mentioning Mayo. I have always of course like most of us been a fan of coach. The Jig is up! Things like this and other indecision that we've questioned over the years have all been subsided by the winning and being a contender year in &out. I've also mentioned that I've not heard from any reputable reporters to refute the report!

That's telling! I feel Jones is good QB and I was looking forward to him under BOB. However I just don't see how the organization can rectify this unless of course they have already met and made some amicable agreement?

Each day it appear more and more staunch BB supporters are starting to say he's wrong here. He's been a dam good coach his entire career excellent defensive mind. However we know everything has a shelf life. It feels like we are witnessing the end of the era.

 

[Ross12]

This section from Breer was interesting, similar to some points I made earlier in the thread.

But I do think Belichick is going to make Jones earn his spot back, and that’ll leave the door open for Bailey Zappe to compete for it. How does he compare? By the end of last year, the coaches didn’t think there was a massive chasm between the two. Jones has the physical edge, but not by a mile. Jones is also incredibly football smart, but Zappe’s sharp, too, and last year’s staff felt like Zappe closed any gap there by following the coach when Jones didn’t.

I will say both look to be in a position to get rolling. Jones has been in the Patriots facility on a daily basis as of late, lifting, studying and popping into the offices of the new offensive staff. Zappe has been, too. So it’ll be interesting to follow this through the spring and summer.

 

[Rob0729]

I guess the MP/JJ fiasco means a lot of people just won't give BB any benefit of the doubt.

It just seems people have decided BB has forgotten everything he's learned about developing players, and he's willing to do ego-driven things like (according to Mike Florio) trade away a young, valuable player just because (according to Chris Sims) Mac reached out for advise to some former coaches.

I don't think BB is doing everything he can do to ruin Mac. I also don't think he should do as you suggest and proclaim Mac as starter now. If so, what do you do if Mac stinks it up during training camp for some unknown reason? You've just painted yourself into a corner for no good reason. Personally, I doubt Mac needs the kind of validation people suggest he needs. He's had to fight for playing time his whole career, this is nothing new to him.

BB may be wrong on his approach, but is the one that's been in the meetings with Mac for two years now, and he's the one with decades of coaching experience, and VInce Lombardi ain't walking through that door.

As you suggest, Mac isn't going anywhere, and neither is BB. Personally, I think the "tension" thing is over-blown. Personally I think it is both of their interests to have a good working relationship, and I believe they are both mature enough to find a way to have a good working relationship.

Personally I don't think it is like media wants to present things, i.e. BB is pissed at Mac for talking to other coaches so he's working on trading him. I don't see how that is in either side's interest. BB needs a QB, Mac does not want to be traded away after a poor season, it will devalue the rest of his entire career.

I do see how it is in the media's interest to present things this way. They've stitched together this narrative on next-to-no evidence and have generated massive amount of clicks thus a lot of ad revenue. Follow the money.

Belichick doesn't deserve a benefit of a doubt anymore for more than the Patricia fiasco last year. The free agency haul of 2021 looks pretty bad now with both Smith and Agholor gone for production reasons and Bourne being virtually benched for most of the season. Add that Mills was briefly cut and moved to a new position. At this point, only Judon is a really good pick up despite all the money spent.

And if Mac Jones is seriously in position to potentially lose his job to Bailey Zappe, that is another reason to doubt Belichick. This is a guy who was the 15th overall pick and a serious rookie of the year contender only to be benched in year three. That is as much on Belichick as Jones.

And if Belichick doesn't make the playoff this upcoming season, he is pretty much gone. It is clear Belichick isn't the same Belichick of the past.
Belichick is smart enough to know that the Patricia thing was a stupid idea when Brian Hoyer had to teach him the offense. He should have done something when he had to dumb down the offense because Patricia and Judges couldn't grasp it. And he should have done something drastic when the offense was a horror show in the preseason. He did nothing and seems to be upset that the players were upset that they were set up to fail.

And the "Belichick is doing everything to set Jones up to fail" is a figure of speech. I don't think he is purposely trying to set up Jones to fail. But his incredibly momentous blunders put Jones in the worst possible position from implemented an offense easy enough for Patricia to run (but not really) that minimized Jones' strengths and exploited his weaknesses (and for many of the skill players) for the OC.

 

[Ross12]

My feeling is... Mac doesn't want to compete. He's a 3rd year QB who needs his option picked up or an extension next offseason. He wants to be in a position to showcase his skillset this year. He can't do that if he's in a competition with Zappe and isn't sure he'll win that competition. So he perhaps also wants to be sent elsewhere where he can be named the starter outright and have more certainty about his future.

I could absolutely be wrong here but that is just my gut feeling with how these rumors and stories have read to me.

 

[Rob0729]

My feeling is... Mac doesn't want to compete. He's a 3rd year QB who needs his option picked up or an extension next offseason. He wants to be in a position to showcase his skillset this year. He can't do that if he's in a competition with Zappe and isn't sure he'll win that competition. So he perhaps also wants to be sent elsewhere where he can be named the starter outright and have more certainty about his future.

I could absolutely be wrong here but that is just my gut feeling with how these rumors and stories have read to me.

I disagree. No matter what you think of Mac Jones as a QB, it hard to doubt his competitiveness. I am sure he feels he doesn't deserve to be in a competition for the starting job. But if he is (which I am still not buying), I am sure he is confident he will win it. And if he does, the competition is over at the start of the season anyway. If there is still a QB competition going on into the season, Belichick is gone next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out of New England especially after he was set up for failure last year and now paying the price because of it. I am sure he, like any QB, would want to be in an organization that supports him and does everything possible to be put in a position to succeed. He has to doubt he is ever going to get that here.

 

[Bill Lee]

My feeling is... Mac doesn't want to compete. He's a 3rd year QB who needs his option picked up or an extension next offseason. He wants to be in a position to showcase his skillset this year. He can't do that if he's in a competition with Zappe and isn't sure he'll win that competition. So he perhaps also wants to be sent elsewhere where he can be named the starter outright and have more certainty about his future.

I could absolutely be wrong here but that is just my gut feeling with how these rumors and stories have read to me.

Wow, you really think he feels he can't beat out Zappe and feels he needs to go somewhere else with less competition?

All the interviews I've seen with him suggest to me he's much more competitive than you make him out to be.

 

[Ross12]

Wow, you really think he feels he can't beat out Zappe and feels he needs to go somewhere else with less competition?

All the interviews I've seen with him suggest to me he's much more competitive than you make him out to be.

I don't know, man. I want to believe he's competitive but there have been some head-scratchers. Him saying "I'm done" on the sideline when he was pulled in the Bears game comes to mind. He did not display the mental fortitude the past two years that I hope for, personally speaking. This is just my opinion, however. I could be very wrong, and I hope I am.

 

[Bill Lee]

Belichick doesn't deserve a benefit of a doubt anymore for more than the Patricia fiasco last year.

This is where we will agree to disagree. BB clearly made a mistake with the MP fiasco, but this doesn't mean I'm going to start believing how Chris Simms and Mike Florio and other mediots characterize how he is operating.

I also don't feel Mac's future is secure with the team. I think both him and Zappe and anyone they draft will get playing time in the pre-season. I have seen a lot of issues with Mac's play on the field, and I'm sure the coaching staff has too. I am not convinced he's the long-term answer.

What I don't see happening is BB trading him away because he couldn't handle Mac speaking to former coaches. I think BB sees enough value in Mac to not just dump him out of spite.

 

[Wozzy]

Mike Lombardi just came out on GM Shuffle podcast and said it was outright false… clickbait.

 

[Ross12]

Mike Lombardi just came out on GM Shuffle podcast and said it was outright false… clickbait.

I mean, who do you believe here.

Florio says it's true.
Giardi says it's false.
Callahan says it's false.
Kyed says it's true.
Breer says it's true.
Lombardi says it's false.

Choose your preferred reporter I believe? Depends on what "false" means too. Was Mac being "shopped"? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he's not available for trade.

 

[Rob0729]

This is where we will agree to disagree. BB clearly made a mistake with the MP fiasco, but this doesn't mean I'm going to start believing how Chris Simms and Mike Florio and other mediots characterize how he is operating.

I also don't feel Mac's future is secure with the team. I think both him and Zappe and anyone they draft will get playing time in the pre-season. I have seen a lot of issues with Mac's play on the field, and I'm sure the coaching staff has too. I am not convinced he's the long-term answer.

What I don't see happening is BB trading him away because he couldn't handle Mac speaking to former coaches. I think BB sees enough value in Mac to not just dump him out of spite.

This is a what have you done for me lately league. The Pats haven't won a playoff game since 2018. They have only been in two playoff games in the time since the 2018 season. This is year three into the rebuild process if you give Belichick a mulligan for 2020 and year four if you don't. And Belichick tanked last season with his stupid move of Patricia and Judge. How many years does Belichick have to get this team back on track and be a serious playoff contender? If the Pats don't make the playoff this year, it will be five years without a playoff win and the Pats would have missed the playoffs three of the last four years.

Seriously at this point, I would rather tank a season and try to be in a position to draft an elite QB than this 8-9 win zone year after year.

And I don't know what Jones' future is with or without the team. But I do know Kraft wants him to play and see what he has and is a fan of Jones. And he writes the checks. If he is benched for Zappe and the Pats don't make the playoffs, that is it for Belichick. After last season, Kraft is not going to happy with a mediocre non-playoff team with Zappe at QB when Belichick didn't give the 15th overall pick a shot to redeem himself after Belichick screwed up the offense last year and put Jones in a position for failure.

 

[Love The Drake]

Will the Patriots draft a QB in the middle rounds more than likely.
Did the Patriots gauge Macs value on the market sounds like it.
Does Zappe have a chance to compete with Mac for the starting job? Absolutely.
If Zappe beats out could Mac be shopped before the trade deadline more than likely.
Will the Patriots go in on Lamar Jackson I highly doubt it.
Will the Patriots sniff Aaron Rodgers? No he’s in bed with the Jets.
Would the Patriots entertain looking at trey lance maybe?
Is bill annoyed with Mac absolutely.
Does Mac suck? No
Is Mac limited by his less than stellar arm? Yes
Is Mac a franchise QB? Bill doesn’t think so.
Could Mac prove his doubters wrong? Absolutely.
Could Mac show he is the next Josh Rosen? Yes that could also happen.
Are we in contention for the AFC East? Doesn’t seem to be the case at this present day but a lot can happen between now and once the games are played.

Carry on with your day jobs til further notice.

 

[Rob0729]

I mean, who do you believe here.

Florio says it's true.
Giardi says it's false.
Callahan says it's false.
Kyed says it's true.
Breer says it's true.
Lombardi says it's false.

Choose your preferred reporter I believe? Depends on what "false" means too. Was Mac being "shopped"? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he's not available for trade.

Bedard says it is false. So does Perry.

We used to say Lombardi was the unofficial mouthpiece of Lombardi and basically says to the media what Belichick wants out there. I know people said that when Lombardi criticized Jones earlier in the year although many of them retracted that when Lombardi put the blame of the offense on Patricia later in the year.